Two highschool girls that aren't quite what they seem. Yuki Nagato vs Monika

[AquaWaifu]

I will admit...I squeed when I realized this match up MIGHT work...





Yuki Nagato - 0 ( )

VS

Monika - 3 ( Saikou The Lewd King, Metal Mario675, RM97 )

Inconclusive - 0 ( )


BATTLE CONDITIONS/RULES:

Both are 2-C

Both are in-character

Speed is equalized

FIght takes place in a disorted version of Monika's Room at the end of DDLC.

Win through any method.

No knowledge or preptime.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Hmm...for now, I'd say Monika, as she has ways to put down Yuki and not vice-versa.

 

[AquaWaifu]

ahh but Yuki has far higher intellgience, experience in manipulating space, time, and matter and has very good precog. I think that can lessen the gap abit.

 

[RealityWarper]

Monika is pretty much like a perfect merger between Haruhi and Yuki. She wins.

 

[AquaWaifu]

Monika's intelligence is nowhere near shown to be even that of Haruhi's, especially Yuki. and well here at least Yuki HAS Haruhi's powers. so she's kind of what you said as well.

 

[Metal875]

Monika erased 54 timelines. Yuki has the power of Haruhi, who could only fuse two. That makes Monika 27x stronger and more durable. Combine that with her abilities to wipe Yuki's memories in an instant, alter the plotline itself to make her win, or to just wipe Yuki herself from existence, and I'm sure Monika has this. At that point, Yuki's invulnerability and regen mean nothing, since Monika is able to bypass said abilities; and because Yuki has no powers superior to Monika's, or that are able to get by her large physique advantages, I'd say Monika takes this pretty handily.

 

[AquaWaifu]

Okay so, I don't think that really first bit speaks of anything to either's "power". Yuki only fused two cause that was what she wanted and was only needed to do. I know it comes of as NLF but...I mean nothing states she could ONLY do just two.


Plus Monika has never really come across someone on her level before so I don't see her going allout immediately. Yeah she CAN erase and plot manip, but in character context changes the variable of those actions taking place.

Plus as I said Yuki has an exceptional intelligence and apossibly experience advantage in the field these two are working in.

Also she has no knowledge on Yuki, and while Yuki also has no knowledge she has precog via linking with her future self.

 

[Ryukama]

54 timelines vs 2 is actually considered significantly higher than 27x on this site.

Also I'm sorry but for Yuki she's 2 timeline level for the sake of this match. One can't just assume she's far higher than she's ever shown or been stated capable of cause her best feat is casual.

 

[Metal875]

@Ryu: Oh. Well, poo. I forgot that on here the differences between space-times are massive. My mistake.

@Aqua: Maybe not, but is there anything saying she can fuse 54? Even fusing two timelines with a heartbeat wouldn't help her catch up much, since the gaps between these tiers are so big.

It's actually in-character for Monika to use plot manipulation and existence erasure; it's the whole premise of the second act, to get you to be with her. She erases Sayori, makes Yuri and Natsuki as repulsive as possible, and the second Natsuki almost revealed her plan, she wiped her memories and took control of her. And, as I said, this wasn't her bloodlusted or anything; she was in-character and trying her best to get you to be with her, without hurting her friends too much.

Also, intellect and precog won't help much, since Monika's existence erasure doesn't need to "aim" or anything to hit its target.

 

[Ryukama]

@Metal No problem. It's completely unquantifiable, but I know this site treats those differences as massive, especially considering how Low 2-C vs 2-C is handled.

 

[Metal875]

@Ryu: True. I read in some older threads that, at one point, they were all considered infinities. That doesn't seem to be the case anymore, but if it was considered that way, it's definitely big. Plus, like you said, Low 2-C VS 2-C.

 

[AquaWaifu]

@Metal


I would argue she only really started messing around with everyone as it became more apparent her "subtle" effects were not having the desired effect. Yes it was in-character but only because she was fueled by a desire to be in a relationship with the "protagonist" Before then she was making very small changes to her friends.


She didnt go full on "warping and messing everything up the moment she realized she could manipulate the game.

 

[Metal875]

@Aqua: Fair point. In the first act, all she did was force Sayori to suicide. However, that's still pretty over-the-top of a thing to do, so she's still very willing to kill here.

But with her massive A.P. advantage here, and Yuki's lack of abilities that can compensate that, Monika should catch on pretty quickly. She's not as smart as Yuki, but she's still smart enough to realize when she needs to crank up the changes. Example, the second act. So I'd still vote Monika.

 

[AquaWaifu]

Yes but as she herself stated Sayori was already dealing with severe depression, not too much to push there honestly. and iirc she only manipulated Sayori's death once she began to realize after a few days of what I think was subtle manipulating that it simply was not working and was in fact backfiring spectacularly.

Does AP really matter here consider their durability levels and hax? Im not trying to argue here too much, Im more curious about this specigic point.

 

[Metal875]

I don't recall manipulating Sayori's death backfiring on her... I recall her talking to Sayori, which she had apparently told her something, and that caused her suicide to ensue. Even if she didn't push her much, the fact she pushed her to suicide in the first place is what I'm targeting; that would indicate she is very willing to kill someone in her way, whether it be subtle, or something else. As a matter of fact, she seems to imply the only reason she was subtle is because they are her friends, and she didn't want to hurt them.

Good point with the durability. Wait... oh dang, I read something wrong here, lol. I thought their durability was higher. Well, since both are able to one-shot the other, you're right, this comes down to hax. But Monika's still willing to kill with much better powers, against Yuki's precog and her own powers, so nevermind.

Inconclusive. Whoever realizes the threat level of the other first wins. Because Yuki's powers, to my knowledge, can't just attack Monika without any type of indications, Monika has a chance to realize Yuki's threat level or to just attack utilizing something else in her arsenal. But because Yuki has precog, she can find out Monika's powers pretty quickly.

 

[AquaWaifu]

No I meant the manipulating BEFORE said death.


Good point on them being friends, but...to be fair....they are the ONLY characters in the entire game. we have point of reference to see how Monika would treat non friends.

 

[Metal875]

Oh, okay. True. She didn't do anything there yet. Eh, who knows then.

Also a good point. We can't make many baseless assumptions... I have a question, since I have zero knowledge on this series.

Is there any evidence that Yuki's reality warping is combat applicable?

 

[AquaWaifu]

Uhhh she does this shit against one of her own kind who tried to kill the main dude,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85ScOZiRLBY

sorry but I sugest watching most of it since, everything the blue haired smiling girl does basically Yuki can also do.

 

[Metal875]

Thank you. Changing my vote to Yuki instead, then. The only point of reference we have to utilize is that Monika doesn't use any of her powers right off the bat unless need be. The friends thing works, but we can't use it to say she's evil to someone she isn't friends with, and Yuki isn't exactly one that looks threatening at all. Meanwhile, Yuki's precog will let her see right away what's going on, and everything Monika can do. And IIRC, reality warping can also get by incorporeality, and because it's combat applicable and can go into affect without any indications, then yeah, Yuki can finish Monika. Unless I'm wrong. In which case, anyone can correct me.

So hey, crazy how much a vote can change, XD

 

[AquaWaifu]

bump

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

The problem with that is that...

-Assuming Monika won't use her Reality Warping is assuming she won't fight at all. This is a battle, not just putting the two characters in a room to see which one will decide to kill the other first. Monika will use her powers as much as Yuki.

-Monika's Non-Corporeality allowed her to survive being erased from 54 timelines at once. Not something Yuki can counter

 

[AquaWaifu]

it isnt assumed she wont fight, its just thought Yuki would act quicker.

 

[Metal875]

@Saikou:

1. In-character Monika seems to limit herself to her smaller powers first. She didn't want to alter reality itself until she had to. Heck, she even admits that if you had gone with her, she wouldn't have touched anything in the first place. What does she start with? Well, she started with simply driving Sayori to suicide. No reality warping or anything like that. She erased Sayori because Sayori was getting close to you, as the protagonist. She needs reaso to act with her stronger powers. There is no basis to say Monika will immediately attempt to erase some school girl she met. Meanwhile, Yuki will have already known what Monika has, since she has precog linked with someone 3 years into the future; she would have already known everything Monika would do, and it's far more in-character for Yuki to act out at a single sign of hostility than it is for Monika. In which case, Yuki will immediately go for the kill.

2. Reality warping can fundamentally get by incorporeality; Monika's physical form has been erased across history, and she was left with her incorporeal form. She was never attacked in that form, only her physical form. Yuki terminated Asakura's data itself, which in turn, erased her, and she was also incorporeal. There's nothing Monika has done or tanked that says she can survive this.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

1. Except that Monika never fought anyone who was an actual threat to her. She only wanted to slowly kill the other girls in order to not just destroy the game and that none of them were threats to her. Do you really think she'd act the same way against a few 10-Bs who won't ever fight her and don't know her powers than she would against another Tier 2 who's clearly out for blood?

2. It doesn't work that way. You can't lump any and all kinds of Non-Corporeality and say Yuki can deal with it. Monika's own pretty much acts like a nerfed Mid-Godly regen, something Yuki has no counter for.

 

[AquaWaifu]

1. Except that Monika never fought anyone who was an actual threat to her. She only wanted to slowly kill the other girls in order to not just destroy the game and that none of them were threats to her. Do you really think she'd act the same way against a few 10-Bs who won't ever fight her and don't know her powers than she would against another Tier 2 who's clearly out for blood?
2. It doesn't work that way. You can't lump any and all kinds of Non-Corporeality and say Yuki can deal with it. Monika's own pretty much acts like a nerfed Mid-Godly regen, something Yuki has no counter for.

the fight is that neither start with any knowledge.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Yet both know that they are in a fight. If we assume that every fight starts with the combatants thinking they're fighting a regular human, a lot of matchups would be very different.

 

[AquaWaifu]

Yet both know that they are in a fight. If we assume that every fight starts with the combatants thinking they're fighting a regular human, a lot of matchups would be very different.

Yes but she has also never come across someone else on her level, that might lead her to being cautious. she is still just a highschool girl, self aware with reality warping powers or not.


is what I think

 

[Metal875]

1. But Yuki isn't "clearly" out for blood; Yuki has been a character with almost no personality; monotone, straight face, and such. She has zero indications from when she's happy or when she's aggressive. Monika will have no idea, nor will she know Yuki has those powers. Because that's what she's been shown to assume and do. Yuki, however, will know Monika in and out, and is used to seeing people stronger than they look, unlike Monika.

2. Except there's still the fact that only Monika's physical form had been erased; there's no real evidence that her whole essence had been attempted to be erased, we only know for sure it was her physical form; assuming otherwise without evidence is baseless. And besides; even if that's what did happen, that's practically what Yuki did to Asakura. So Yuki still has a counter.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Your argument that "she never came across someone on her level" works against you, because all of the events where she didn't use her powers do not count for this real match.

You can't assume out of the blues that she would be "cautious" or hold back when she hasn't fought anyone seriously.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

@Metal Why would she have "essence" left? She was outright deleted from existence, including any memories of her or any influences she had on the world. Assuming she had an essence left is coming up with concepts the setting never came close to bringing up.

 

[AquaWaifu]

Im saying that based off her intelligence and that being a highschool girl, even if she knows she is really just a game character. She would be cautious as to her knowledge in canon no one else exists capable of doing what she can do and confront her in a manner somewhat equal to her. Imagine if Natsuki suddenly was able to resist and fight back with self awareness game changing abilties.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

If Natsuki was able to do so, Monika would just delete her. She deleted Natsuki and Yuri for far less than that.

 

[AquaWaifu]

She deleted them once shit started getting ridiculous. SHe "accdientally" had Yuri kill herself and had the protagonist stay in the room for the entire weeekend after Yuri told her off right before. and since Natsuki saw the death and it would just lead to further trouble Monika just finally went and deleted both of them.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

And what makes you think Monika would resort to not using any of her powers if Natsuki went full rogue? There are no reasons at all.

And once again, if we did this for every characters, very few of them would actually use their full power from the start.

 

[AquaWaifu]

If natsuki went full on rogue yeah she would most certainly go nuts. But Yuki isnt one to really "outwardly show or react"

 

[Metal875]

@Saikou: Her file represents her character. A character is a physical form. There isn't really anything in there that implies it deleted all of her; as a matter of fact, after Sayori was deleted, she still had influences on the world. And the only reason Monika had nothing left of her is because she recreated the world without herself.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Jesus, don't take what I say so literally. You know what I mean. If Natsuki became anywhere near a threat to Monika, she'd go into the trash can very quickly.

Also, Yuki's profile implies that she needs to actually use her Precog for it to work and that it isn't passive.

 

[AquaWaifu]

@well yeah of course it isnt passive. but she's still crazy smart and technical so I dont see her not going for it in a fight.

 

[Metal875]

Also, Yuki's profile implies that she needs to actually use her Precog for it to work and that it isn't passive.

Okay, that is a good point. I looked into the series and she does have to take a few seconds to synchronize with her future self.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

@Mario Clearly not. Without a file, you literally cannot exist within the game. Anything remotely related to you gets corrupted or erased without your file. Saying it's just her physical body is severely misunderstanding what it does.

And no, that's plainly not true. Sayori getting deleted also removed her from the game entirely, including history. The same happened to Monika.