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Twin Peaks Downgrade

Wokistan

Wokistan

Bioluminescent African American Working At The CIA
VS Battles
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Except I don't touch tier 1. Get clickbaited nerd.

MIKE

I don't know what's up with this High 6-A rating.
Multi-Continent level (Windom Earle has stated that the entities of the Lodge would be capable of offering immense power, enough for one to "reorder the earth to their liking", to mortal magicians who gained access to the realm's power, while still remaining far above such magicians as native entities naturally attuned to the Lodge's energies)

"Reorder the earth to their liking" is a very vague descriptor, and the files don't list anything else. You'd have really heavy impacts on the earth pretty much anywhere in tier 6, or even high enough into tier 7 if you're here as an individual. We can already see significant impact on the atmosphere from dust kicked up by tier 7 nukes, and those go off once. Idk what I would rate this as, but High 6-A doesn't seem properly justified. Also applies to those who scale.

The Woodsmen

These guys just seem solid 1-A off their description. I have no clue why they're listed with High 6-A, nothing in their justification implies this.
Varies. Multi-Continent level to Outerverse level (Anomalous void beings that move free of the constraints of space and time, "untethered" from their laws or application, in a metaphysical, non-physical "dimension" which defies scientific or rational analysis, existing beyond an infinite number of higher levels/space-time dimensions of matter and energy in a realm where it is seen as illusory fiction. Their existence lies at the root of all thought, inspiration and inquiry throughout all of time, being archetypal forms beyond the illusory veil of reality, from which all phenomena is derived. Can access Mother's void, originally likely "existing" as atom-like beings within her midst. While in the physical universe, they can modulate the frequency of their own being to adapt to any layer of the physical universe, of which there is an infinite number, through metaphysical "electricity")

Nothing here references any other High 6-A, nor does it present a High 6-A feat. I guess this is technically an upgrade? I can't do that hold up

Mr. C

The youtube account showing his feat has been terminated. Unfortunate, but that's not the bigger issue. The bigger issue is just that this isn't 9-B. Renzo doesn't have a file, so nothing on the file implies he's 9-B that would put him here off scaling, and a skull can be caved in by very much not 9-B things like a shotgun. It's superhuman, but still 9-C.

Freddie Sykes
Just more of "being superhuman does not mean 9-B" stuff. Neck breaking and KOing works fine in superhuman 9-C, and knocking doors off their hinges being 9-B does not make sense given the existence of breaching tools used by cops and firefighters. Into the 9-C he goes.

That's about it.
 
The High 6-A stuff you mention makes sense to me.

and a skull can be caved in by very much not 9-B things like a shotgun. It's superhuman, but still 9-C.

Skull-crushing is 9-B no matter how you slice it, so I disagree here.

Just more of "being superhuman does not mean 9-B" stuff. Neck breaking and KOing works fine in superhuman 9-C, and knocking doors off their hinges being 9-B does not make sense given the existence of breaching tools used by cops and firefighters. Into the 9-C he goes.

This one makes more sense, apparently neck breaking is only 10-A, and depending on the door, knocking it off its hinges can be 10-A too. But the general superhuman stuff might justify 9-C.
 
Wokistan said:
Reorder the earth to their liking" is a very vague descriptor, and the files don't list anything else. You'd have really heavy impacts on the earth pretty much anywhere in tier 6, or even high enough into tier 7 if you're here as an individual. We can already see significant impact on the atmosphere from dust kicked up by tier 7 nukes, and those go off once. Idk what I would rate this as, but High 6-A doesn't seem properly justified. Also applies to those who scale.
Click to expand...
I don't think physical impacts are a really valid point of reference in this case, given how "reordering the earth to his liking" is referring to Reality Warping in this context.

Wokistan said:
These guys just seem solid 1-A off their description. I have no clue why they're listed with High 6-A, nothing in their justification implies this.
Click to expand...
Wacky profile, I suppose. They're High 6-A because they do manifest in the material world much like the other Spirits, so they get to scale to them as well.

Wokistan said:
The youtube account showing his feat has been terminated. Unfortunate, but that's not the bigger issue. The bigger issue is just that this isn't 9-B. Renzo doesn't have a file, so nothing on the file implies he's 9-B that would put him here off scaling, and a skull can be caved in by very much not 9-B things like a shotgun. It's superhuman, but still 9-C.
Click to expand...
Sounds fine enough. I suppose I should also take this opportunity to say that his 8-B rating is wack, too: Yes, he does hijack the electrical grid of an entire prison and has pretty much full control over it by proxy, but the result of the calculation I did comes from the total energy generated by a prison facility over an entire day, which obviously isn't applicable in this case, since he overloaded the prison's systems for a few seconds at best.

Wokistan said:
Just more of "being superhuman does not mean 9-B" stuff. Neck breaking and KOing works fine in superhuman 9-C, and knocking doors off their hinges being 9-B does not make sense given the existence of breaching tools used by cops and firefighters. Into the 9-C he goes.
Click to expand...
He would scale to 9-B regardless, given how a character who is logically much weaker than he is could already bend steel with her bare hands.
 
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The 9-B skull crush calc is actually wrong and contrary to reality, but I'll make my own thread on that later. As a tldr, irl 9-C things are able to crush skulls, and that calc assumes it's like a cube of bone with the total mass of a skull as opposed to the actually hollow structure it is and has been disavowed by its creator.

However, even before reducing that, one must consider the difference in what the actual feat is. The skull crush calc was for squeezing a skull flat. while caving it in would be a single, violent impact. A skull isn't going to handle sustained pressure in an identical fashion to a singular strike, so that doesn't actually work with that calculation.
 
“Skull-crushing is 9-B no matter how you slice it, so I disagree here.”

The 9-B calculation is about the pulverisation of an entire skull, caving it in would be different

“I don't think physical impacts are a really valid point of reference in this case, given how "reordering the earth to his liking" is referring to Reality Warping in this context.”

Shouldn’t you link the context, although even then idk if that would just be reality warping over a High 6-A range? Sometimes reality warping is given a tier but iirc that’s almost always because the reality warping manifests as creation.
 
imo it's 9-B until that revision's made, then.

I don't like downgrading a few individual characters because an extremely common feat has had its calc debunked but the thread hasn't been made yet.
 
"He would scale to 9-B regardless, given how a character who is logically much weaker than he is could already bend steel with her bare hands."

This would depend how thick the steel is and how far it was bent, and should be properly explained on the file.
 
Agnaa, there's also the issue that it wouldn't actually be calced off that method, as it's a different process.
 
Dozens of profiles have it accepted for punching a skull, so I'll take those profiles over your word until a thread's made about it.
 
Considering the calc is about how much energy you would need to shear a skull or literally pulverise all of it, caving a very small section of it in would not be 9-B. Even if the crushing calculation is flawed, under its own logic the feat still doesn’t apply.
 
Other profiles aren't relevant to this though. Other profiles are just as able to be wrong as this one is. Materials resisting impact and sustained pressure differently is well known, not sure how you'd deny that just because this isn't the only wrong thing.
 
Other profiles are actually extremely relevant, since they show that currently these sorts of feats are accepted on the site, and have been accepted by many people before you coming out here with some random point as if no-one else would have noticed if that was wrong.

If other profiles are wrong then make a general revision to fix all of them.
 
Why is it so impossible that nobody else noticed it was wrong though? Where is your actual response to the point itself?
 
I'm not equipped to handle the point, so I'll defer to all of those who have accepted it before, which includes many experienced staff and calc group members.

Unless, of course, you could make a general thread about this where you get a bunch of people to agree with your point.
 
From the note it doesn't sound like your explanation of the calc "the calc is about how much energy you would need to shear a skull or literally pulverise all of it" is actually accurate. It sounds like it's about destroying it in a swift blow, or slowly crushing it into pieces (sounds very far from pulv).

But ig you could still be right if the whole skull isn't destroyed, like the calc requires.
 


Aeyu posted this, which yeah doesn't fit the parameters of that calc any way you really slice it.

People are saying Freddie's door busting isn't actually hinge reliant but I haven't seen vid yet
 
Oh yeah that feat looks tiny.
 
Might not be pulverisation, sure. I’m not entirely certain what the effects of overcoming compressive strength equates to visually if you are just punching it from a single area
 
If you're just punching it and the entire skull shatters, the shearing strength end applies (Says so in the calc).

REMEMBER, YOU NEED TO SHATTER OR TO SLOWLY CRUSH THE ENTIRE THING, NOT JUST CAVE IT IN AT ONE PART OF THE SKULL.

And yeaaaaaaaah, the video clip doesn't show the entire skull being shattered to pieces or it being reduced to dust (Only the frontal part is dented in) so we can't use this calc for this particular feat anyway, like Agnaa said.

REMEMBER BOIS, ALL OR NOTHIN'.
 
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High 6-A should be removed, unknown what to, could just be Unknown.

Both characters with 9-B ratings should be downgraded to 9-C.

I don’t think making the woodsmen or whatever full 1-A was talked about that much except from in Ultima’s first comment so that would just be replaced with Unknown or something I guess.
 
The 9-B stuff was taken care of long ago. I'll give Ultima a chance to come talk about High 6-A

The reason for the Woodsmen being High 6-A to 1-A is the fact that they also have physical forms, which is the same reason for BOB and MIKE having High 6-A keys.
 
My opinion on High 6-A remains the same as before. Wok's counterexamples to the rating all involves physical strikes and the like, which don't really factor in this case, since the statement in question refers to characters whose primary source of power is interacting with and manipulating the essence of the universe, and so it'd be a Reality Warping feat instead.

Granted, I'm not quite sure how we treat gaining AP from Reality Warping in lower tiers, and I've heard conflicting opinions on this, so I do welcome suggestions from someone more familiar with those standards than I am.
 
Can't we simply separate the physical and reality warping statistics as usual?

Meaning: "Tier Q physically. High 6-A via reality warping"?
 
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Wok's point at the start was that you can have heavy impacts on the Earth anywhere in tier 6, and even in the higher parts of tier 7, making High 6-A a bit of a highball. The idea to just call it reality warping and leave the key in doesn't sufficiently address that.
 
Okay. What do you and others here think that we should do to solve this problem then?
 
A simple solution would be something like
Unknown (Can reorder the Earth to their liking, but the exact extent, mechanism, and timeframe for doing such is unclear)
Click to expand...
 
Okay. That seems reasonable to me. What do the rest of you think?
 
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