Turning Immeasurable Speed Faceless Void into unknown rating.

[EinelRendezvous]

So recently I had an argument with someone who said Faceless Void has immeasurable speed. The profile of this website also says that, but what I want to know is, is there any evidence that Faceless Void has proof of speed that can time travel to the past with pure speed? if not, wouldn't it be better to call the immeasurable speed less credible and downgrade it in to an unknown rating.

From what I see Faceless Void relies more on its hax in controlling time than moving beyond it. Especially his whole arsenal is controlling time like, he can jump into or out of combat using Time Walk while simultaneously reverting any damage he has taken in the last few seconds. Darkterror can also pause his foes' cooldowns with Time Dilation, lowering their movement speed in the process. His ultimate, Chronosphere, freezes time for everything within its area of effect, giving him time to pummel any enemies caught within without resistance for several seconds. It's one of the most devastating initiation spells in the game and can win team fights before his opponents can even react. -- I don't see him moving back in time with his sheer speed and if he does I think it's more of a hax that's time walk.

This time walk stuff also grant him a dimensional travel ability, which where I get this idea from "Darkterror 'tears a hole in time, passing through Claszureme,' and appearing back in an instant."

The other reason he got immeasurable speed was because "Originates from Claszureme, a realm that exists outside of time. The laws of spacetime do not apply on the Faceless Void." And that's not strong enough as a feats, according to the current standard immeasurable speed criteria do not include a character that exceeds "time" to become Immeasurable speed, which is why some characters are downgraded to unknown ratings like Sinbad.

I have read every lore of him and I don't see his pure speed trascending the linear time. Can one of you shows me of it?

 

[EinelRendezvous]

Bump.

 

[Planck69]

Don't bump after just a minute.

Anyway, this makes sense and most of those justifications aren't Immeasurable speed to begin with. I'll contact the supporters to see if they have any scans. Otherwise, it should be Unknown.

@WeeklyBattles @JohnHendrix212 @S.T.A.L.K.B.E.R.2 @Dark_warrior_100

 

[Fixxed]

Agree with downgrade

 

[DaReaperMan]

Agree with downgrade

 

[DarlingAurora]

I agree with downgrade.

 

[Teezar]

I agree

 

[EinelRendezvous]

Don't bump after just a minute.

Anyway, this makes sense and most of those justifications aren't Immeasurable speed to begin with. I'll contact the supporters to see if they have any scans. Otherwise, it should be Unknown.

Okay as I thought. If any of them doesn't has the scans, as you said it should be unknown.

 

[EinelRendezvous]

So we had 5 that agrees, and one of them is a mod.

 

[Bernkastelll]

I agree

 

[Planck69]

I hope people realize that while I agree with the premise, I'm still waiting for the supporters to clarify.

 

[Antvasima]

I also think that this seems to make sense, but we should wait for the supporters, yes.

 

[EinelRendezvous]

I also think that this seems to make sense, but we should wait for the supporters, yes.

Okay that's fair. But if there's no supporter that willing to explain this, then can we close it? Since there's no opposition in this thread.

 

[S.T.A.L.K.B.E.R.2]

I agree

 

[Dereck03]

This make sense, so i agree, but i'll wait for supporters opinion too

 

[EinelRendezvous]

Okay thanks. So now one of the supporter of that verse has agree to thread.

 

[EinelRendezvous]

This make sense, so i agree, but i'll wait for supporters opinion too

We'll see, one of them has agreed earlier.

 

[Antvasima]

I hope people realize that while I agree with the premise, I'm still waiting for the supporters to clarify.

@WeeklyBattles @JohnHendrix212 @S.T.A.L.K.B.E.R.2 @Dark_warrior_100

 

[JohnHendrix212]

Well, Void's speed is pretty outdated to be honest. So Unknown rating it is then.

Though Claszureme, the realm from which Void comes from isn't just "outside" conventional time, it's also beyond time, based off of his respawn line. I'm not sure how this would affect his speed rating though.

On the other hand, "Being able to casually roam around freely across linear time qualifies for immeasurable speed" is something Darkterror can do.

"Time is a river with many eddies. I have seen its head waters, and I have seen its currents reach the sea."

Given how he operates, it's quite safe to assume that it isn't just a form of precognition. Although given that there's not much lore to go around, I suppose anything can be said really.

This is just my take on this.

 

[JohnHendrix212]

Ecstasy_Amphetamine,TrueBK98, Shmooply, your take on this?

 

[Planck69]

Well, Void's speed is pretty outdated to be honest. So Unknown rating it is then.

Though Claszureme, the realm from which Void comes from isn't just "outside" conventional time, it's also beyond time, based off of his respawn line. I'm not sure how this would affect his speed rating though.

It doesn't affect speed.

On the other hand, "Being able to casually roam around freely across linear time qualifies for immeasurable speed" is something Darkterror can do.

"Time is a river with many eddies. I have seen its head waters, and I have seen its currents reach the sea."

Given how he operates, it's quite safe to assume that it isn't just a form of precognition. Although given that there's not much lore to go around, I suppose anything can be said really.

No, it really isn't. It's a massive assumption to extrapolate anything beyond precognition from that statement.

 

[JohnHendrix212]

It doesn't affect speed.

Fair enough.

No, it really isn't. It's a massive assumption to extrapolate anything beyond precognition from that statement.

From that statement, sure. But given how Faceless Void operates with his abilities (Physically moving through time), and having no precognition abilities apart from physically moving through time to physically see what he sees, it's solidly not precognition in my opinion.

Then again, this is all pretty vague, so I'm fine with Unknown.

 

[Antvasima]

Ecstasy_Amphetamine,TrueBK98, Shmooply, your take on this?

@Ecstasy_Amphetamine @TrueBK98 @Shmooply

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

How did this thread get more replies from other people than the Dota anime CRT? Anyways...

Dota 2 does not have good profiles right now, and tbh, I feel like every current rating that we have is wrong. But not this one, at least to some extent.

This cosmetic states that travelers from Claszureme (including FV) do not really have a place in time. As such, they require special runes to ground themselves within time's flow. Although vague by itself, it actually tells us that this rune actually limits FV's place in time, since without it, they can easily travel to any point in time. So by themselves, they are very easily Immeasurable by default, but I assume that everytime Void manifests into the material plane, he has to wear these runes or something similar so that we can even comprehend him to begin with. Otherwise we would see FV phasing in and out rather than seeing him move normally.

"For a traveler from Claszureme, one's place in the flow of time is uncertain. These runes help ground the wearer within time's march."

I think it's further supported by the fact that he needs to tear a dimensional rift to Claszureme (which exists outside time) to move through time itself rather than simply taking a step forward or even backward to move through time. Which means that the Void that we're familiar with is grounded within the flow of time.

Then there's this cosmetic too.

"It is said that to wear the jewel is to pierce the flow of time, to witness a thousand seasons unfold in a day, and to walk unhindered through ages past and future."

No, it really isn't. It's a massive assumption to extrapolate anything beyond precognition from that statement.

The statement is further supported by some of his lore, besides the one I previously mentioned.

"You understand the dangers that lie ahead and yet you stand against me?" This line is said by Void Spirit, a guy who can see through all of time as he also exists above it. For context, the danger that he is talking about is called "The Great Confluence", a cataclysmic future event where the fabrics of multiple realities are fated to collide. He's pretty concerned about this because for all his precognition abilities, he cannot see the future ahead of it. According to him, FV also foresaw this event as said by Void Spirit in this line.

Then there's his Time Lock ability, which describes that his strikes can literally shift someone out of this dimension, likely into Claszureme or outside time since the result is the opponent being stunned (gameplay wise) but Dota 2 is not a game that explains lore through scenes and whatnot, but rather through gameplay and lore/story presented within it (because it's a Valve game, if you've played Half-Life/TF2 you'd probably understand)

 

[Planck69]

Out of everything you said, the only thing that might be an Immeasurable feat is this;

"It is said that to wear the jewel is to pierce the flow of time, to witness a thousand seasons unfold in a day, and to walk unhindered through ages past and future."

Even then, I'm a bit unsure since I don't know the context to it. Maybe other staff have something to say about it.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

What about the others?

 

[Planck69]

A statement about locking down at a specific time period.

A statement about precognition.

A statement about BFR.

That's really all I get from them.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

A statement about locking down at a specific time period.

That's exactly why he has Immeasurable speed. It's supporting lore meant for his Time Walk ability (see the description). Naturally, his place in time is uncertain and his presence in the material plane of existence is unstable, with the context that he is not locked into the natural flow of time and can freely move through it without them, due to him originating from a realm outside of time itself.

A statement about precognition.

K

A statement about BFR.

K

 

[Planck69]

That's exactly why he has Immeasurable speed. It's supporting lore meant for his Time Walk ability (see the description). Naturally, his place in time is uncertain and his presence in the material plane of existence is unstable, with the context that he is not locked into the natural flow of time and can freely move through it without them, due to him originating from a realm outside of time itself.

Link isn't working on Time Walk.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Faceless Void

Starting items: Tango and Healing Salve regenerates health during the laning stage. Quelling Blade increases Faceless Void's ability to last-hit creeps to ensure that the enemy has a hard time denying creeps. Magic Stick can be useful to get on Faceless Void given his small base HP and mana...

dota2.fandom.com

Scroll down to his abilities section, Time Walk is the first ability to see there. The text in italic is the lore description for the ability.

 

[Planck69]

OK, so he's Immeasurable with Time Walk.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

That's only assuming that he's locked within the time flow with runes or time manipulating shards. Without it, he needs to use Time Walk.

I personally don't see the point of this CRT as most of Dota 2's profiles are poorly made right now, I do feel like removing them until we find a good amount of feats and whatnot to give them credible ratings.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

It would also make no sense for him to be Immeasurable only with Time Walk when he naturally originates from and exists in a realm outside of time itself (which is confirmed to be part of a spacetime continuum and is indeed the fourth dimension)

 

[Planck69]

It would also make no sense for him to be Immeasurable only with Time Walk when he naturally originates from and exists in a realm outside of time itself (which is confirmed to be part of a spacetime continuum and is indeed the fourth dimension)

That's not a justification for Immeasurable speed to begin with. "Existing outside ot time", "beyond time" etc. no longer mean anything without a corresponding feat.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

I just mentioned the corresponding feats in this thread already. His existence beyond time is the reason why he can do such things.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

I really don't know what else are we trying to argue here by the way, is that not enough? It's just a matter of piecing together the things that I mentioned here.

 

[Planck69]

Personally, I don't think it's really enough since there's only one hard Immeasurable speed feat here and it's for Time Walk. Does he at any moment just sorta, walk to the past or future?

You can always wait for more staff in any case, if you think I'm being pedantic about it.

 

[GreatIskandar14045]

If he's beyond time (literally) thus allows him able to travel freely between it, that sounds like a solid feat for Immeasurable speed to me but this.

I personally don't see the point of this CRT as most of Dota 2's profiles are poorly made right now, I do feel like removing them until we find a good amount of feats and whatnot to give them credible ratings.

 

[Antvasima]

How did this thread get more replies from other people than the Dota anime CRT? Anyways...

Dota 2 does not have good profiles right now, and tbh, I feel like every current rating that we have is wrong. But not this one, at least to some extent.

This cosmetic states that travelers from Claszureme (including FV) do not really have a place in time. As such, they require special runes to ground themselves within time's flow. Although vague by itself, it actually tells us that this rune actually limits FV's place in time, since without it, they can easily travel to any point in time. So by themselves, they are very easily Immeasurable by default, but I assume that everytime Void manifests into the material plane, he has to wear these runes or something similar so that we can even comprehend him to begin with. Otherwise we would see FV phasing in and out rather than seeing him move normally.

"For a traveler from Claszureme, one's place in the flow of time is uncertain. These runes help ground the wearer within time's march."

I think it's further supported by the fact that he needs to tear a dimensional rift to Claszureme (which exists outside time) to move through time itself rather than simply taking a step forward or even backward to move through time. Which means that the Void that we're familiar with is grounded within the flow of time.

Then there's this cosmetic too.

"It is said that to wear the jewel is to pierce the flow of time, to witness a thousand seasons unfold in a day, and to walk unhindered through ages past and future."



The statement is further supported by some of his lore, besides the one I previously mentioned.

"You understand the dangers that lie ahead and yet you stand against me?" This line is said by Void Spirit, a guy who can see through all of time as he also exists above it. For context, the danger that he is talking about is called "The Great Confluence", a cataclysmic future event where the fabrics of multiple realities are fated to collide. He's pretty concerned about this because for all his precognition abilities, he cannot see the future ahead of it. According to him, FV also foresaw this event as said by Void Spirit in this line.

Then there's his Time Lock ability, which describes that his strikes can literally shift someone out of this dimension, likely into Claszureme or outside time since the result is the opponent being stunned (gameplay wise) but Dota 2 is not a game that explains lore through scenes and whatnot, but rather through gameplay and lore/story presented within it (because it's a Valve game, if you've played Half-Life/TF2 you'd probably understand)

@Everything12 @Duedate8898 @KingTempest @QuasiYuri

What do you think about this and Planck69's rebuttals?

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Might as well sum up my arguments

From what I see Faceless Void relies more on its hax in controlling time than moving beyond it. Especially his whole arsenal is controlling time like, he can (spell description). -- I don't see him moving back in time with his sheer speed and if he does I think it's more of a hax that's time walk.
The other reason he got immeasurable speed was because "Originates from Claszureme, a realm that exists outside of time. The laws of spacetime do not apply on the Faceless Void." And that's not strong enough as a feats, according to the current standard immeasurable speed criteria do not include a character that exceeds "time" to become Immeasurable speed, which is why some characters are downgraded to unknown ratings like Sinbad.

This is pretty much ignoring his background lore, which I already stated in this thread (and I recommend reading through it all). Besides the reply that Ant quoted above, here's why he is immeasurable. Anything lower than that is a joke considering who he really is.

Faceless Void is an alien visitor from a place outside of time itself (time in Dota 2 is part of an actual spacetime continuum and is the 4th dimension), which is the just one of the few context that tells us why he can wield time to great effect and travel through it. Because he originates from a realm outside of time, he has no certain place in the flow of time, requiring special equipment to lock him within the flow of time and stabilize his presence on the material realm (which is where most of Dota 2 takes place and is one of the more mundane places) If he were to not use these items, then he would simply be free to move to any point in time as he wishes.

I completely forgot to mention that Time Walk backtracks any damage taken as an old ability named Backtrack was brought back and integrated into his Time Walk ability.

"Faceless Void dodges damage by jumping backward in time, eluding both physical and magical attacks."