Turning Immeasurable Speed Faceless Void into unknown rating.

[TrueBK98]

I know that I left the Dota 2's CRT suddenly and haven't came back since, so I'm sorry for that. I was quite busy with my studying. Ok, back to the discussion, being outside of time in Dota is also unbound by linear time in itself.
"From a place beyond time, and time beyond counting." - Faceless Void
Beings that predate and outside of time have consistently said that time and space are irrelevant to them.
"Time means nothing to Darkterror, except as a way to thwart his foes and aid his allies."
"The passage of time on the mortal plane is immensely...tedious."
"Inai exists far beyond the scope of a single point in space and time."
"Time and space are of little consequence to one as old as Zet."
The last line is important because Time only came into existence after some time after The Schism. The Seven Planes themself predate time, other than the Terrene Plane that got bound by time, the rest of the planes still consider time and space are of little consequence.

 

[Planck69]

...None of which imply Immeasurable speed.

 

[Antvasima]

Can somebody remind me what we need to do here please?

 

[JohnHendrix212]

Can somebody remind me what we need to do here please?

The OP seeks to change Faceless Void's Immeasurable speed to Unknown, citing that the justifications no longer hold up to the current Immeasurable speed standards.

Amphetamine refutes the idea, providing some context on the nature of FV's abilities, such as needing a gadget to anchor himself to a certain time, otherwise he would be free to physically traverse all of time in its entirety, as he does not truly have a place in the timestream, which is acceptable as Immeasurable.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you.

Planck and the OP make sense to me. Somebody should preferably apply this revision.

 

[JohnHendrix212]

Okay. Thank you.

Planck and the OP make sense to me. Somebody should preferably apply this revision.

I don't think it's done yet, Ant.

And frankly, I do feel strongly that Faceless Void's passive nature of being able to traverse all of time without the gadget counts for the main qualifications for Immeasurable speed, which is "Being able to casually roam around freely across linear time".

I think this needs more input before we can come into a consensus.

 

[Antvasima]

Can it use time travel as a feat of speed, or just travel through time in the normal manner?

Also, your input would be appreciated here if you can find the time @DarkDragonMedeus .

 

[JohnHendrix212]

Can it use time travel as a feat of speed, or just travel through time in the normal manner?

His time travelling and related abilities stem from him being, as mentioned, "beyond" time. Or in this case, he's a 4th-Dimensional entity. His time manipulation abilities are not magic-based or the like, he physically traverses time freely. "Traverse" as in walking or running through it, not conventional time travel.

 

[JohnHendrix212]

I personally suggest to leave the Immeasurable rating as it is, and change the justifications. As the justifications are the main reason for the OP's proposal.

Should be: Immeasurable (As a being from beyond time, the Faceless Void can freely traverse through time, as he does not have a place in time's march. Can move through time by movement alone.)

or something to that effect.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with most of the things brought up in the OP that existing outside of time is not Immeasurable speed anymore. However, it was recently brought up above that the Time Walk ability seems to have some characteristics of Immeasurable speed. So I think Unknown, Immeasurable with Time Walk sounds about right? And this also means those who scale from the normal speed also get downgraded to Unknown.

 

[JohnHendrix212]

I agree with most of the things brought up in the OP that existing outside of time is not Immeasurable speed anymore. However, it was recently brought up above that the Time Walk ability seems to have some characteristics of Immeasurable speed. So I think Unknown, Immeasurable with Time Walk sounds about right? And this also means those who scale from the normal speed also get downgraded to Unknown.

I think it's better if you read through Amphetamine's posts as well to get a better grasp of the concept behind FV's abilities and nature. The main point of the OP is to revise the rating because of the outdated justifications. I suggested we just change the justifications, as we still do have a justification for him to remain Immeasurable.

Faceless Void can freely traverse through time at will, as he does not a place in time. In which case, he needs special plates to ground himself to the current timestream, otherwise he can simply move through time. This falls in line with the qualifications for Immeasurable speed that states a character that can move through linear time is qualified as having Immeasurable speed.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I did read his most recent post, but Planck already refuted those bit by bit, and it's basically claiming that "Outside of time". Which doesn't apply for Immeasurable speed anymore. A character needs to perceive at least one temporal dimension as a spatial dimension they roam around freely to truly qualify as Immeasurable.

 

[JohnHendrix212]

I did read his most recent post, but Planck already refuted those bit by bit, and it's basically claiming that "Outside of time". Which doesn't apply for Immeasurable speed anymore. A character needs to perceive at least one temporal dimension as a spatial dimension they roam around freely to truly qualify as Immeasurable.

Ignoring the "outside of time" bit, what do you think about the Faceless Void (and others like him) explicitly stated to need special runes to be grounded to the current march of time, as he does not have a place in the timestream. Without these runes, Faceless Void can passively walk at any point in time freely. It should also be mentioned that FV's way of time travel is purely physical, as in he's physically moving through time, not conventional magic time travel or whatnot.

"Faceless Void dodges damage by jumping backward in time, eluding both physical and magical attacks." Is a decent supporting feat of this.

Also, his line "Time is a river with many eddies. I have seen its head waters, and I have seen its currents reach the sea." given the context behind his abilities, refers to him physically hopping to the beginning and the end of time.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Okay, those parts actually sound closer to reaching Immeasurable speed, but not quite 100% certain.

 

[Planck69]

I'd be fine with a "Likely Immeasurable" rating, in light of that quote in the above post.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Also, his line "Time is a river with many eddies. I have seen its head waters, and I have seen its currents reach the sea." given the context behind his abilities, refers to him physically hopping to the beginning and the end of time.

This quote actually refers to how he perceives all of time simultaneously, not his time travel.

 

[JohnHendrix212]

This quote actually refers to how he perceives all of time simultaneously, not his time travel.

Is that so? I'd thought it referred to his time travelling prowess considering there's not much focus on his perception. But perhaps you're right.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

I remember a quote from him in Artifact where he likens time in Claszureme to water. Seeing how he's comparing time to bodies of water in the quote you posted (not to mention that "seen" is the only verb in that quote) I think what I said makes sense.