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Try again for Low 1-A / 1-A Honkai.

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I have nothing to do, so I’m doing this.
This is my first time doing CRT for Tier 1. I think it's not that good, but I hope it's not hard to understand.

The current Hoyoverse cosmology is rated as "possibly" Low 1-A in this thread. The reason for that rating is based on mathematical theory in the real world, while the fictional term "Absolute Infinity" does not have inherent meaning, which is why it has been rated as "possibly." Therefore, I need to change the proposal for Low 1-A and remove the "possibly" rating.

Go! Go! Low 1-A!

It has been said:
So, basically, what we see is just an avatar of the tree that allows mortals to use its powers, such as creating a new branch/timeline, like Otto did.

And another statement that is straightforward and aligns with "the tree doesn’t exist in any dimensions" is that an Imaginary Singularity carries no dimensional information and is dimensionless. This singularity is linked to the Tree, with the only known Imaginary Singularity being the Cocoon of Finality. All of these Cocoon statements were made before they reached it.

After the Herrscher of Finality was born and humanity finally reached the Cocoon, In this scan. Durandal's feat refers back to Chapter 25-EX, where Durandal needed to connect the bubble world to the Tree.

Schrödinger just to explained how you can connect the bubble world to the Tree because their bubble world has no anchor point.
So, basically, they need to transcend all dimensions and use the Herrscher as an anchor point to connect the bubble world to the Tree.

It is stated that Kiana herself, who is equal to the Cocoon, can achieve this, as the Cocoon carries no dimensional information and is dimensionless, which they explained before they reached it. It is also linked to the Tree, which does not exist in any dimensions. This means we can conclude that the Cocoon and the Tree are above dimensionality by nature.

But it doesn't imply transcending all higher dimensions.

Yes, it does. In this scan, they want to find the existence of the Imaginary Singularity. The number of dimensions in the scan refers to the Imaginary Singularity. However, as I mentioned, this is just a hypothesis before they reach the Cocoon. In this scan, after everything was done, Otto had already reached the Tree, and Kiana had already reached the Cocoon. In the scan, they're in a situation where they need to "transcend all dimensions" to connect the bubble world to the Tree, and Kiana, who is equal to the Cocoon, can do it. The Cocoon is a higher entity in the verse, naturally linked to the Tree. Both are above dimensionality by nature because you need to "transcend all dimensions" to reach them.

Anyways, as the same reason as Ultima in the last thread. I prefer possibly Low 1-A.
Please read what I am trying to say. I definitely used a different argument from the last CRT.

The last CRT used "transcend all dimensions" for the Cocoon itself to transcend the entire cosmology, giving it a 1-A rating, and possibly Low 1-A based on Absolute Infinity.

What Ultima rejected is that it isn’t naturally BDE, and I am using a different argument for the Cocoon and Tree.
Transcend means "To go beyond" something. Characters with Type 1 BDE are indeed beyond dimensions, insofar as they don't exist in dimensional space at all and thus are outside dimensions. Previously you said that if "Transcends dimensions" is not enough for 1-A, then the BDE page is wrong, but this isn't correct; it's just that "Transcends X" doesn't actually mean "Superior in nature to X" in the first place. You can go look at any verse that describes dimensional travel and time travel as "Transcending dimensions" and "Transcending time" respectively, as an example of how finicky this word is.

I am open to "Transcends dimensions" statements being 1-A, mind you. There just doesn't seem to be any context that'd make that the case here.

I am using "transcend all dimensions" to explain that someone in a lower plane needs to "transcend all dimensions" to reach a higher plane. Those in the higher plane, such as the Cocoon, Tree, and Aeons, are naturally considered above dimensionality, giving them Low 1-A and naturally BDE2.
I don't want to repeat it over and over again.
BEFORE:
In this scan, before reaching it, they assumed it carries no dimensional information and is dimensionless. In this scan, they want to find the Imaginary Singularity, but due to the sheer number of dimensions, it is nearly impossible to find it. However, it's a hypothesis. In this scan that singularity is linked to the Tree, which does not exist in any dimensions.

AFTER:
In this scan, after everything was done, Otto had already reached the Tree, and Kiana had already reached the Cocoon. In the scan, they needed to transcend all dimensions to connect the bubble world to the Tree, and Kiana, who is equal to Cocoon, can do it. I think it's clear that both the Tree and Cocoon are above dimensionality by nature.

After this, if I see someone still arguing about the meaning of the word "transcend," I'll throw this argument at them. I clearly use it in a different way. I used it to support that both the Tree and Cocoon are above dimensionality by nature because you need to transcend all dimensions to reach them.

Hope this makes things clear. What I want to argue is that those in the lower plane who transcend to the higher plane do so without it being their inherent nature, whereas those in the higher plane are naturally at that level.
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Yes, above dimensionality is rated as Low 1-A in our standard.

1-A

Come to think of it, none of the lower beings have ever reached higher beings by themselves, except with help from other higher beings. For example, as I mentioned earlier, Kiana can transcend all dimensions to connect bubble world to the Tree because she was granted power from the Cocoon.

Otto was also helped by Prometheus when she was the Will of Honkai, but Otto himself remained a slave of the Tree. Not to mention, both Prometheus and Otto could only use the powers from higher beings, not equal to or surpassing those higher beings.

In Durandal's case, she used the Imaginary Tree's function to connect to the actual Tree with the help of SUGARs and Kira, and Holy Sword, who learned how to use the Imaginary Tree. As I mentioned earlier, the Imaginary Tree is like an avatar that can manifest itself to lower beings in this way.

And the Cocoon gave birth to the Herrscher of Finality, who serves as an avatar to descend to lower beings to reset civilization. Not to mention, lower beings can’t do anything to the Cocoon, not even Kevin, who transcends Finality. Additionally, to perceive it, one would need to have the power granted by the Cocoon itself.

I’m also concerned that the nature of the Cocoon might be beyond all dimensions because it granted power to Kiana to transcend all dimensions. This suggests that the Cocoon could be higher than the infinite gap between hierarchies of all dimensions.

So, the nature of those higher beings resides in a greater mode of existence than lower beings, but physically lower beings can achieve 1-A status if granted powers from a character whose nature is 1-A. However, even those non-1-A beings with 1-A status still can't do anything to higher beings. For example, Otto, despite having the Tree's authority, is still a slave to the Tree, and Kevin, who transcends Finality, still can't do anything to the Cocoon. None of the lower beings can surpass or reach that existence by themselves, nor can they affect it; lower beings can only see and use its power with the grace of higher beings.

Guess this would be supporting evidence for 1-A that those higher beings are beyond human understanding.

This is also another piece of supporting evidence for 1-A. The Imaginary Space itself is beyond the scope of human rationality. However, some might argue that it simply exists outside of spacetime. But it’s not just that; the Imaginary Space is built upon rules above rules, devoid of time, and is also referred to as Absolute Nothingness. This space belongs to the Imaginary Tree, which transcends reality.

Scaling

Ability​

BDE Type 2 for Cocoon and Aeons because they exist on the same plane as the Tree by nature. The Tree represents a cosmology within the Hoyoverse that is above dimensionality, or beyond all dimensions, the nature of which can exhibit "qualitative superiority".

AP

Just remove the "possibly" rating for those who already scale to 1-B, possibly Low 1-A, and classify them directly as Low 1-A / 1-A.

LS (I'm not sure about this part)
Immeasurable for Cocoon and Aeons due to its nature as a BDE Type 2.

Speed

Honkai Impact 3rd:
Immeasurable speed for Cocoon due to BDE Type 2 on the Low 1-A / 1-A scale.

I've already clarified all of my points here. If you misunderstand any of them, I'll explain further. I don't have any more explanations for this proposal.


VOTES:


Agree:


Disagree:


Neutral:




*Sorry if my English was difficult to understand🙏 I have already tried my best to explain.
 
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Is Low 1-A explicitly for Cocoon Kiana or for every god tier in game?
I just want to remove the "possibly" rating for those who are already scaled to Low 1-A and classify them directly as Low 1-A, and just add BDE for Cocoon.
 
You should link the new speed standard for high-1B on your CRT.

I disagree with the trio scaling for these reasons as this seem more like a representation of Kiana receiving Finality's power. I am inclined to agree with a solid rating using the CoF statements to support it
 
D̶i̶s̶a̶g̶r̶e̶e̶ ̶b̶e̶c̶a̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶H̶o̶y̶o̶'̶ ̶m̶a̶l̶e̶ ̶M̶C̶s̶'̶ ̶d̶e̶s̶i̶g̶n̶s̶ ̶s̶u̶c̶k̶,̶ ̶I̶ ̶w̶o̶u̶l̶d̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶d̶r̶o̶p̶p̶e̶d̶ ̶G̶I̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶H̶S̶R̶ ̶i̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶l̶o̶o̶k̶e̶d̶ ̶c̶o̶o̶l̶e̶r̶
 
I have nothing to do, so I’m doing this.
This is my first time doing CRT for Tier 1. I think it's not that good, but I hope it's not hard to understand.
Good job
Honkai Star Rail:
Downgrade Aeons to infinite speed. Aeons are rated at immeasurable speed because they are comparable to Terminus, who can move forward and backward in time. However, it is unclear whether Terminus physically traverses backward and forward in time. Therefore, downgrade Aeons to infinite speed for the same reason as Cocoon.
Neutral on this.
 
1. BDE2 is for 1-A only, not Low 1-A, impliying BDE2 mean implying 1-A

2. You don't get infinite speed from being BDE, it is a power describe state of being, nothing correlate it to speed at all. Reaching higher dimension is again, i repeat, dimensional travel, not speed

3. Now that you meantion Aeon immeasurable speed, thank, i forgot to check it is valid or not since in previous thread about Immeasurable speed for HI3rd, i found the evidences for it is bad
 
1. BDE2 is for 1-A only, not Low 1-A, impliying BDE2 mean implying 1-A
I question this, and every answer is different. Some say Low 1-A is BDE2, while others say BDE2 is 1-A only. So, I don't know. I want to hear it from the staff.
2. You don't get infinite speed from being BDE, it is a power describe state of being, nothing correlate it to speed at all. Reaching higher dimension is again, i repeat, dimensional travel, not speed
FAQ might be helpful. This speed proposal is for beings above dimensionality by the nature of their existence. From what I know, it automatically grants infinite speed.
3. Now that you meantion Aeon immeasurable speed, thank, i forgot to check it is valid or not since in previous thread about Immeasurable speed for HI3rd, i found the evidences for it is bad
It seems like Immeasurable speed might be valid.
No stakes on the AP section but regarding the speed section for the Aeons is a possibly Immeasurable not on the table?

All the relevant scans for now since Terminus is still unknown.

It's stated that Terminus moves against the flow of time being able to go backwards and forwards.
The first scan isn’t in their profiles.

Anyway, I'm a Honkai wanker. So, I'm fine with Immeasurable speed either way. Your opponent right now is Vietthai. Good luck, brother, faito!!
 
1. BDE2 is for 1-A only, not Low 1-A, impliying BDE2 mean implying 1-A
You seem to have misinterpreted something: there are two types of BDE2.

1. This is for the characters or objects who have statements of complete transcendence over space-time. These objects or characters are given Low 1-A as they have completely transcended their verse's spatiotemporal dimensions and spaces that define such dimensions.

2. If we apply the same logic to realms, however, an entirely different conclusion occurs. These realms lacking space-time and dimensions as a whole causes them to be placed at 1-A as, even though they are dimension-less, they are still larger than all of creation in some ways.

By the way, I love your PFP! Lovin' the Artemis love.
 
I just read all the pages, like wtf??, new shit get added without me knowing

It seems like I need to change the speed section to Immeasurable.
Based on the FAQ, at best it is infinite, not immeasurable, unless you trying to scale everyone to current Aeon who is immeasurable


By the way, I love your PFP! Lovin' the Artemis love
I see, a fellow Aether Gazer enjoyer
 
@DarkDragonMedeus says Immeasurable makes more sense than infinite for BDE, so I changed it.
🗿

Based on FAQ, the reason for Infinite speed is because High 1-B onward mean infinite higher dimensional, so any movement across the cosmology mean you move across infinite distance, which mean infinite speed, and a higher dimensional entities at this level span themselves across infinite dimensional thus infinite distance, so infinite speed by default

I actually disagree with this logic on FAQ but well it got accepted and is on FAQ page so i can't do anything
 
Ultima rejected 1-A; this is rather solidifying Low 1-A.

Ngl, you guys aren’t any better 💀
If it were fine for solid low 1-A I'm pretty sure he would've said so.
Can you point out where I used the exact same arguments as in the last revision? I remember that the last revision used those arguments for 1-A and Absolute Infinity for Low 1-A, but I'm using them for Low 1-A with transcendence over dimensionality by nature.
Transcend means "To go beyond" something. Characters with Type 1 BDE are indeed beyond dimensions, insofar as they don't exist in dimensional space at all and thus are outside dimensions. Previously you said that if "Transcends dimensions" is not enough for 1-A, then the BDE page is wrong, but this isn't correct; it's just that "Transcends X" doesn't actually mean "Superior in nature to X" in the first place. You can go look at any verse that describes dimensional travel and time travel as "Transcending dimensions" and "Transcending time" respectively, as an example of how finicky this word is.

I am open to "Transcends dimensions" statements being 1-A, mind you. There just doesn't seem to be any context that'd make that the case here.
 
Note that he's saying it's a BDE type 1 statement and not type 2 so that's a pretty implicit disagreement to low 1-A in the first place as low 1-A is BDE type 2.
As a default, statements of being "above dimensions" are set at Low 1-A, and the same is applied to statements indicating superiority over "All of space and time," and similar.

Transcends clearly indicates superiority. And Ultima has like shit tons of CRTs to evaluate, real generous of you to assume that he will give arguments for the CRT which falls into the responsibility of the OP.
 
Transcends clearly indicates superiority. And Ultima has like shit tons of CRTs to evaluate, real generous of you to assume that he will give arguments for the CRT which falls into the responsibility of the OP.
He said in the original thread that it meant otherwise.
 
I also disagree because if you look again BDE 1.
BDE 1 already Transcerds dimensions because it is aspatial =transcerd space and atemporal =transcerd time , the word transcerd does not mean superiority it just means to go beyond which is not superiority.
 
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I’m not Ultima, nor am trying to distort what he said. Heck, I’m straight-up rebutting him and I got no fears of doing so at all.
I also disagree because if you look again BDE 1.
BDE 1 already Transcerds dimensions because it is aspatial =transcerd space and atemporal =transcerd time , the word transcerd does not mean superiority it just mean to go beyond which is not superiority.
Transcend: to rise above or go beyond
verb (used with object)
to rise above or go beyond; overpass; exceed:
 
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