Transduality type 4(new 3) for the Root.

[Regidian]

As it tell in the profile of saber shiki, she is mentionned to be the manifestation of the world principle that show to use Wuji as his basis. And [ ] precede and is beyond the Taiji who is a theology from the Chinese to explain the world principles.

This was born of 『　』 and shall one day reach 『　』.Separate the two polarities, circling the four symbols, and assemble the eight diagrams. Her existence is the manifestation of the world's principles

Wuji theology as itself seem to be considered as transduality type 4.

type 4 via preceding Taiji and devoid of all values including nothingness and limits as the same expression 'limitless' should be translated as 'ultimate of beinglessness,' for the negative element is no longer qualifying the word 'limit' but is rather qualified by the word 'limit'.

Shiki who was connected to [] have a description that correspond to above.

Knk chapter 5 Japanese:
閉ざされた空間、マンションの壁と壁の間にもうけた異界の中で目を覚ました彼女は、その腕でありえない空間 の、ありえない壁を斬ったのだ。

無限は、「 」ではない。無限を無限たらしめるには有限を定めなくてはいけないのだ。有限がなければ無限 など存在しない。物事には果てがあるから、無限という事柄が観測される。両儀式は放りこまれた無限の中で、 ありえない有限を視つけだして断ち切った。

だが無論、無限の中には有限などない。存在しないものは斬れないが故に、あの檻は脱出が不可能なのである 。 しかし――有限がなければ、無限はないのだ。有限の壁が無かったにせよ有ったにせよ、両儀式の前にはそん な果てのない世界など意味をなさない。

有限が本当になければ、それは無限などではなく「 」であり。有限を内包しているのなら、式はそれを視つ けだして断ち切ってしまう。

……絶対の筈の黒い穴は、この相手にだけはただの狭い暗室にすぎなかったのだと、魔術師は. Infinity is not “ ”. In order to render infinity, one must define limits. Without limits, infinity does not exist. Infinity can be observed because objects possess limits. Ryougi Shiki was immersed in infinity, but found the non-existent limit and severed it.

Of course, limits do not exist within infinity, thus one cannot sever something that does not exist. As a result, escaping from this prison is impossible.


However -- - without limits, infinity does not exist. Regardless if a finite wall existed, an limitless world is meaningless before Ryougi Shiki.


If there is no limit, then it is not infinity, but “ ”. If limits exist, then Rougi would find it and cut away everything.

Which is further implied by [] having properties similar to the reflection principle and apophatic theology. As [] can countain his own system into himself which is already based on Wuji, like it was show with the simulation of an artificial Root made by the Xian based on the Tao and Wuji and the different created system made by the idea/definition trying to comprehend it. To note that the supreme god of taoïsm exist in Nasuverse and The Root naturaly exist beyond it.

I already mentioned something to that effect in Singapore, but magecraft original to the Orient is different from the Occident's. That's because some concepts have different bases. Let me see if I have a good name for this concept. How about Sharing?"

"What's Sharing?"

"Think of the Philosophy Magecraft spread all over continental Asia. What makes it valid are the Philosophy Foundation, which is an effective simulation of an artificial Root."

"An artificial... Root?"

She lost me completely.

But those words alone were enough to make a shiver run down my spine." -Lord El Melloi case files.

[] is something that can't have possible description or definition one could try giving has it is immediately separated into its own idea unrelated to []. Which mean that even the Wuji theology is not something that can describe what is [] as it become an another thing that just be encompassed by it. And we know that all the different discipline and paradigm flow from it.

「　」 [Others]

If you really wished to pronounce this term, call it "Kara".

Its meaning varied depending on each individual's understanding. To put it in simple terms, it was the Spiral of Origin.
However, since the Spiral of Origin was called the Spiral of Origin, it was no longer []. - Kara no Kyoukai Special Pamphlet - Encyclopedia: 「　」 [Others], p.028-029

Umm…I heard about it in class. What was it…the Spiral of Origin?”

“Right. The Spiral of Origin, or more simply the Root. Sometimes it’s referred to as「 」, the thing for which there can be no reference. It is the source of everything, the ‘zero’ from which all matter and phenomena flow. Ah, but now that I’m trying to put it into words, I’m realizing that’s not a good idea. After all, even the idea of 'zero’ has baggage that makes it unsuitable as a comparison.” -Lord El-Melloi II Case Files

"Funny you should say that, since in a way, that’s what mages are aiming for. Some call it the ‘spiral of origin.’ Others like the ring of ‘The Akashic Records’ better. That grand mass of nothingness. Whatever you want to call it, that’s what they’re after. It’s where everything came from. And if you know where everything came from, you know everything that comes after. It’s not even enough to call it ultimate knowledge. It’s something higher than that. All the different disciplines and paradigms of learning the Art flow from this single, indivisible source. Whether it’s astrology, alchemy, the Kabbalah, Shinsendō, or runes, all their practitioners harbor the same goal. The first fortunate souls that felt its presence dreamed of its potential. It isn’t to sponsor the quest for the meaning of man’s existence, because they already know it. It is to pierce the great lie of this world and find pure truth, whatever form it takes. Mages of the ideal sort cherish only themselves to live a life that will never be rewarded.”- https://emptyboundaries.files.wordpress.c

An other thing to note is that the gods, should have possibly the ability to interact with thing in the same level as the Root as they can grant connection to it.

"I'm sure you heard in the Clock Tower about how pretty much everyone played by their own different rules in the Age of Gods, right? Did you know that Age of Gods mages weren't after the Root?"


I remember hearing that.


That was because the gods were a regular part of reality in the Age of Gods.


"If I recall correctly, it was because in the Age of Gods, making a contract with a god closer to the Root connected the mage directly to the Root."


"That's right", Rin nodded. -Lord El-Melloi II Case Files

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Before I comment on this, what is the source for these quotes?

 

[Regidian]

Before I comment on this, what is the source for these quotes?

Better here?

 

[Regidian]

Bump

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

i don't think that is enough to get transduality 4

Or you can contact some staff that expert on transduality stuff

 

[Regidian]

i don't think that is enough to get transduality 4

Or you can contact some staff that expert on transduality stuff

Normaly transcending and being beyond transduality type 3 stuff should be enough but yeah i will do it

 

[Vietthai96]

hold off, we are currently revising transduality

 

[Regidian]

hold off, we are currently revising transduality

Doesn't it be like 7month we are revising? + The revision is just to remove type 3 if i recall

 

[Vietthai96]

Doesn't it be like 7month we are revising? + The revision is just to remove type 3 if i recall

DontTalkDT currently want to re-define type 4 which soon will be type 3, type 3 merge with type 2 because they are the same, just with the 1-A requirement. Type 4 going to be way harder to get

 

[Regidian]

DontTalkDT currently want to re-define type 4 which soon will be type 3, type 3 merge with type 2 because they are the same, just with the 1-A requirement. Type 4 going to be way harder to get

Not really for the harder to get, it isn't planned to change the description of type 4, juste let it be type 3

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

I wanna propose a little feat that might support the validity of TD 4

There is the Primordial Chaos which is the origin of all duality concepts, containing all possibilities, a thing precede the duality itself, an observable territory. There is the Imaginary Number Space which is also the origin of all duality concepts but in a negative/imaginary state, containing all possibilities, an unobservable territory. It's concluded that both are the same as the origin of all concepts of duality, precede the duality concepts, but both of them like two opposite sides of a coin (positive and negative).

「　」 surpasses all of that because it's qualified for Apophatic Theology, which cannot be described by anything.

hope it helps.

 

[Sniper670]

That works... This Primordial Chaos indicates undifferentiation, which is Wuji. To qualify for new standard, the entity must be beyond even that.

So I think Swirl of Root Qualifies via being Apophatic to all things within the verse, even to Primordial Chaos

 

[Regidian]

Yeah thx it could help

 

[Fixxed]

I think you should wait until the revision get accepted

For get TD 4 you must beyond and superior to at least 4 logical states (in new revision). So make sure you have 4 logical states and beyond that

 

[Regidian]

I think you should wait until the revision get accepted

For get TD 4 you must beyond and superior to at least 4 logical states (in new revision). So make sure you have 4 logical states and beyond that

Well it have it so it's good. Taiji is the 1 before the division of the division of duality (normal transduality), we have imaginary space who is the origin of all the imaginary/negative duality, then Wuji is the 0 that precede taiji and it's the supreme nothingness, then we have the different description of the Root who are becoming their own thing and then we have [].

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

I wanna propose a little feat that might support the validity of TD 4

There is the Primordial Chaos which is the origin of all duality concepts, containing all possibilities, a thing precede the duality itself, an observable territory. There is the Imaginary Number Space which is also the origin of all duality concepts but in a negative/imaginary state, containing all possibilities, an unobservable territory. It's concluded that both are the same as the origin of all concepts of duality, precede the duality concepts, but both of them like two opposite sides of a coin (positive and negative).

「　」 surpasses all of that because it's qualified for Apophatic Theology, which cannot be described by anything.

hope it helps.

apophatic theology = not describable by anything right?
But wait a minute. If primordial chaos is above all dual cocnepts, shouldn't it contain all impossibilities as well? Above the duality of possibility and impossibility?

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

apophatic theology = not describable by anything right?
But wait a minute. If primordial chaos is above all dual cocnepts, shouldn't it contain all impossibilities as well? Above the duality of possibility and impossibility?

It should be i guess

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

It should be i guess

is primordial chaos imaginary number space?

 

[Regidian]

is primordial chaos imaginary number space?

No two different thing, primordial cover the "normal" dualities and possibility when imaginary cover the negative and imaginative part like imaginary number etc

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Bump

Transduality revision has been completed, probably this can be evaluated soon

 

[Regidian]

Bump

 

[Lewis]

Wuji theology as itself seem to be considered as transduality type 4.

I think it should be fixed
And I accept this thread.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Reference to philosophical / religious concepts are not really good evidence, unless the series itself explains them.

And the rest of the quotes in OP seem really vague. Could be talking about a bunch of properties, not necessarily transduality IMO.

 

[Regidian]

Reference to philosophical / religious concepts are not really good evidence, unless the series itself explains them.

And the rest of the quotes in OP seem really vague. Could be talking about a bunch of properties, not necessarily transduality IMO.

Wuji and taiji are explained in the verse. We even have the definition of them, who created this philosophy etc.
And the rest of the quote are used to explain [] by the point of view of user, so can't be about properties. [] Have already transuality but just the ancient type 3 based on taiji, but [] transcend not obly taiji, but wuji too.

 

[Regidian]

I wanna propose a little feat that might support the validity of TD 4

There is the Primordial Chaos which is the origin of all duality concepts, containing all possibilities, a thing precede the duality itself, an observable territory. There is the Imaginary Number Space which is also the origin of all duality concepts but in a negative/imaginary state, containing all possibilities, an unobservable territory. It's concluded that both are the same as the origin of all concepts of duality, precede the duality concepts, but both of them like two opposite sides of a coin (positive and negative).

「　」 surpasses all of that because it's qualified for Apophatic Theology, which cannot be described by anything.

hope it helps.

And we have that too

 

[Fixxed]

I look this again

Btw can you explain the 4 truth state first that exist in the verse, is will make it simple to evaluate i think

Taiji if it like in the philosophy, then its onesess (simulteneously true and false)
And you have the 3th truth states here

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Reference to philosophical / religious concepts are not really good evidence, unless the series itself explains them.

And the rest of the quotes in OP seem really vague. Could be talking about a bunch of properties, not necessarily transduality IMO.

How the Root got transduality is here

https://vsbattles.com/threads/void-shiki-physiology-abilities.110920/

The thread is just trying to upgrade it to the new type 3.

Also this

I wanna propose a little feat that might support the validity of TD 4

There is the Primordial Chaos which is the origin of all duality concepts, containing all possibilities, a thing precede the duality itself, an observable territory. There is the Imaginary Number Space which is also the origin of all duality concepts but in a negative/imaginary state, containing all possibilities, an unobservable territory. It's concluded that both are the same as the origin of all concepts of duality, precede the duality concepts, but both of them like two opposite sides of a coin (positive and negative).

「　」 surpasses all of that because it's qualified for Apophatic Theology, which cannot be described by anything.

hope it helps.

 

[Lewis]

I look this again

Btw can you explain the 4 truth state first that exist in the verse, is will make it simple to evaluate i think

Taiji if it like in the philosophy, then its onesess (simulteneously true and false)
And you have the 3th truth states here

Here it is not about many valued logic, but rather explanatory logic beyond perception. which are greater than the truth states values of Gödel logics [0,1]

 

[Fixxed]

Here it is not about many valued logic, but rather explanatory logic beyond perception. which are greater than the truth states values of Gödel logics [0,1]

Explain, because the scan it self not says the godel blablabla or beyond perception blablabla

 

[Sniper670]

Too complicated. My line of reasoning is this

SoR is Apophatic to everything in the cosmology. Wuji exists in the verse. SoR is Apophatic to it.

It's in a similar vein to Oblivion recent upgrade, where it's the nothingness that precedes and Transcends/exists beyond Wuji, making him type 3.

I agree with the upgrades btw

 

[Lewis]

Too complicated. My line of reasoning is this

SoR is Apophatic to everything in the cosmology. Wuji exists in the verse. SoR is Apophatic to it.

It's in a similar vein to Oblivion recent upgrade, where it's the nothingness that precedes and Transcends/exists beyond Wuji, making him type 3.

I agree with the upgrades btw

I agree with you because it's logic above duality and it's similar to Paraconsistent logic.

 

[Regidian]

Bump

 

[PrinceofPein]

The stuffs in the OP are really vague and most of them are not really talking about duality or something similar.
The first is and that would be type 2 based on root transcendence of the verse

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Bump

You should put my scan in the OP

And put the link of td 3 root/void shiki crt

 

[Lewis]

root is about Philosophical logic in which transduality type 3 is not limited to many valued logic or 5 states of truth, but it is non classic logic that is a different form from the formal system in standard logical systems.

 

[Lewis]

Bump

 

[Deleted member 21887]

Bump !!

 

[Ubdon]

I made remake of this td crt with a little more details can anyone check this?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/nasuverse-transduality-part-1-transduality-type-3-for.142657/