Transduality Type 3 For Arceus(Original Spirit)

[Sniper670]

Okay. So I had a feeling there's Transduality thing somewhere, and after I did a bit of digging. I found it. This is Arceus dialogue in Pokémon Super Mystery Dungeon.

Soy Arceus, un ser nacido de la nada.Todos no somos nada y somos algo al mismotiempo: todo se rige por una cierta dualidad.

Translation

I am Arceus, a being born out of nothing, we are all nothing and something at the same time: everything is governed by a certain duality.

わたしは アルセウス。無むの中なかの有ゆう。わたしたちも 宇宙うちゅうも 有ゆうであり無む……すべては 表裏一体ひょうりいったいなのです。

Translation

I am Arceus. There is something inside nothingness. We and the universe are both existential and nonexistent... everything is two sides of the same coin.

I sent it to a translator. For the last part

So first things first, someone tried to explain the spelling, but the formatting makes it look like part of the sentence, which is why it's nonsense.

表裏一体＝ひょうりいったい

So the actual sentence is すべては表裏一体なのです, or 'everything has a front and a back'

I'm using 'front and back' as a substitute for 表裏, since it doesn't translate perfectly, but the idea being conveyed by 表裏一体 is that everything has a front/face which is what's shown to other people (the surface level), and a back/rear/tail that is the hidden reality of the thing (that which is under the surface), and these two factors are both necessary and cannot be separated from one another. They are both elements of the whole, and without one, you do not have the whole

English version

I am Arceus. I am the existence within nothingness.
We and our universe are both nothing and something…
Everything has two sides.

The Nothingness here refers to Primordial Chaos, the Undifferentiated state of the Universe where everything intermingled and the same. Where distinctions didn't exist inside the Spirit/Heart/Mind

Yes - I think of myself as thinking that the beginning of the world is the moment when the heart buds.

Yes! In the spirit, space and time were blended together, and Pokémon and people are one and the same...

Primordial Chaos itself Is NonDual NEP 2 as it is the Undifferentiated Nothing that precedes the concept of nonexistence that Giratina embodies. Those familiar with the Concept of Wuji or Hundum

In Chinese cosmology there was originally hun-tun, an undifferentiated luminous cloud, a void with no boundary, emptiness, a potential state. The hun-tun is sometimes considered a state of chaos in that is undivided, whole, a state where everything is mixed together. This potential, undifferentiated primordial state is also called Wu Ji. Wu Ji means literally “no limit” or “no polarity.” It is the “One,”

The Multiverse at the highest level, deals with duality as well, where the multiverse as a whole is in a Duality of existence(Pokémon Reality) and its Opposite/Nonexistence(Distortion World)


In dictionaries it's stated that "Kokoro"(心) refers to "the source of human mental activity", "the action of the very human psyche", "the totality of knowledge, emotions and intention".

So we can understand that the Original Spirit is the Primordial Consciousness/Mind that is the source of all that exists. You'd see Heart/Mind/Spirit being used interchangeably. They're the same


The Spirit/Heart itself is beyond Space and Time, and Arceus is a manifestation of that Consciousness. And thereby the entire universe, as the multiverse is literally the extension of Arceus. Dialga and Palkia are spects of Arceus who embody the physical Existence of the Multiverse while The LT embody the Spirit

If that's the case, can the Pokemon that created the world be thought of as a manifestation of their heart?! Uh-huh... When the spirit sprouted, the world was created... When the spirit grew up, space, time were born...

Quote

That is to say, for any statement A about them they are in a state that can't be described as A is true, A is false, A is simultanously true and false or A is neither true nor false

Which does fit the Original Spirit because he's not even inside the duality of the multiverse, as he's beyond it, so he's not 1, nor 0, nor is he both. He's also not neither true nor false, as that is what the Primordial Chaos is, which is inside the Mind that it is.

Cosmology in a nutshell

 

[PrinceofPein]

This is type 1

 

[Sniper670]

Thai isn't type 1

The Multiverse with Duality 1 and 0

Primordial Chaos is the absence of 1 and 0

Arveus literally mentions that the multiverse is both everything(Pokeverse/Distortion world of nonexistence) and Nothing(Primordial Chaos where 1 and 0 don't exist)

Original Spirit contains both in his mind and is independent of it

 

[PrinceofPein]

It is still existence and non existence which will still be type 1

 

[Sniper670]

It is still existence and non existence which will still be type 1

You're getting it Wrong, and seriously I don't need you to start stonewalling this thread

I explained that Giratina is the concept of Nonexistence. And The Primordial Chaos is the absence of everything, the Undifferentiated state of the multiverse.

Literally nondual. I listed the Japanese concept of Wuji and Hundum here. Please, don't start

 

[PrinceofPein]

You're getting it Wrong, and seriously I don't need you to start stonewalling this thread

Someone does not see this gs your way does not make them stonewalling

I explained that Giratina is the concept of Nonexistence. And The Primordial Chaos is the absence of everything, the Undifferentiated state of the multiverse.

Non existence is literally the absence of everything both are one and the same.

Non existence = absence of everything.

Nobody is starting anything.
I disagree simple, it's not stonewalling it's called disagreement cause I think your reasons are flimsy

 

[Sniper670]

Someone does not see this gs your way does not make them stonewalling

Sure. I know you quite well for this behavior

Non existence is literally the absence of everything both are one and the same.

Non existence = absence of everything.

Nobody is starting anything.
I disagree simple, it's not stonewalling it's called disagreement cause I think your reasons are flimsy

everything is governed by a certain duality.

Primordial Chaos is NonDuality. The Pokémon world is governed by Duality.

Both NonDuality and Duality exist inside The Spirit, which is mind

Transduality Type 3

 

[PrinceofPein]

Sure. I know you quite well for this behavior

Dude shut it and bring a single instance of me stonewalling

Primordial Chaos is NonDuality. The Pokémon world is governed by Duality.

Both NonDuality and Duality exist inside The Spirit, which is mind

Transduality Type 3

Lmao, you wish. I already said my piece

 

[Sniper670]

Dude stfu and bring a single instance of me stonewalling

I'm just going to be a nice person and ignore this.

Lmao, you wish.

Nice Debunk. I'm impressed. You're too good at this. Lol.

 

[PrinceofPein]

I'm just going to be a nice person and ignore this.

Or you got nothing to say and just decided to use wonky defense mechanisms.
Dude you claim i stonewall, bring proof dont just type unnecessary stuffs irrelevant if you wont proof it to begin with.

Nice Debunk. I'm impressed. You're too good at this. Lol.

Stop acting like a kid anytime someone disagrees with you
I already told you the reason up in previous messages, you just decided not to understand, dear.

 

[Sniper670]

And your reason doesn't make sense. I explained above and you're like "you wish"

Be serious. I'm not really in the mood to deal with nonsense rn

 

[PrinceofPein]

And your reason doesn't make sense.

Neither does your reason for the upgrade in the first place

 

[Sniper670]

Neither does your reason for the upgrade in the first place

Okay I'm going to go slow to make you understand

1. The World is governed by duality
2. The Primordial Chaos as explained is the NonDual state of the Universe where distinctions didn't exist and everything was one and the same. Which is Chinese Hundum, and in some places wuji.
3. Both these states exist inside the Spirit, which is mind.

 

[AguilaR202]

Isn’t the world being mutually existent and non existent imply the 2A multiverse structure by itself is trans dual?

 

[PrinceofPein]

Okay I'm going to go slow to make you understand

1. The World is governed by duality
2. The Primordial Chaos as explained is the NonDual state of the Universe where distinctions didn't exist and everything was one and the same. Which is Chinese Hundum, and in some places wuji.
3. Both these states exist inside the Spirit, which is mind.

Still type 1,
The only logical duality here is in the OP which is existence and non-existence.

 

[Sniper670]

Still type 1,
The only logical duality here so far existence and non-existence.

Arceus literally says everything is governed by a Duality

The multiverse existed in a state of NonDuality

Both exist in the spirit.

That is type 3. No?

 

[Tatsumi504]

Disagree, isn't this just type 1?

The World is governed by duality

Duality is literally just 0, 1 not 0 and 1, basically a system of truth and false.

Non duality is being in a state that is either both 0 & 1 or neither 0 nor 1.

Also doesn't help your case that the only duality being mentioned is existence and nonexistence (NEP 1).
Duality of existence and nonexistence= (0,1)
Non duality of existence and nonexistence= both ((0 & 1)NEP 3) or neither ((0 nor 1)NEP 2)

 

[PrinceofPein]

Arceus literally says everything is governed by a Duality

Yes, existence and non-existence like he literally mentioned

The multiverse existed in a state of NonDuality

Sure same way bleach world too exist in a duality.
Saying one world cannot exist without another does not make them logical duals.
Everything one world has must be tbe opp

Both exist in the spirit.

That is type 3. No?

Nope, if you can get a statement of all things in its duality and a few examples, you may be able to get a type 2. But this is still the 1

 

[Tatsumi504]

Arceus literally says everything is governed by a Duality

Your OP literally says "a certain duality" not "dualities", then proceeds to mention only existence and nonexistence.

We don't just assume multiple dualities for a verse according to my knowledge. It's limited to what has been shown.

 

[Sniper670]

Disagree, isn't this just type 1?

Duality is literally just 0, 1 not 0 and 1, basically a system of truth and false.

Non duality is being in a state that is either both 0 & 1 or neither 0 nor 1.

Also doesn't help your case that the only duality being mentioned is existence and nonexistence (NEP 1).
Duality of existence and nonexistence= (0,1)
Non duality of existence and nonexistence= both ((0 & 1)NEP 3) or neither ((0 nor 1)NEP 2)

Nothingness is the Primordial Chaos where everything was one and the same. Ugh

In Chinese cosmology there was originally hun-tun, an undifferentiated luminous cloud, a void with no boundary, emptiness, a potential state. The hun-tun is sometimes considered a state of chaos in that is undivided, whole, a state where everything is mixed together. This potential, undifferentiated primordial state is also called Wu Ji. Wu Ji means literally “no limit” or “no polarity.” It is the “One,”

The Pokémon world is governed by a Duality.

Primordial Chaos is the absence of 1 and 0. As it's the undifferentiation before distinctions came into being.. Just look at Scarlet kind Transduality Type 3

Both exist in tbe Original Spirit

 

[Sniper670]

Your OP literally says "a certain duality" not "dualities", then proceeds to mention only existence and nonexistence.

We don't just assume multiple dualities for a verse according to my knowledge. It's limited to what has been shown.

The Translations back it up by saying everything has two sides or two sides of the same coin. So no

 

[Sniper670]

Yes, existence and non-existence like he literally mentioned

Everything is governed by a Duality

Sure same way bleach world too exist in a duality.
Saying one world cannot exist without another does not make them logical duals.
Everything one world has must be tbe opp

That was Existence (Physical and Spirit) the Distortion world is the opposite of it, Nonexistence.

Everything in the multiverse was in a NonDual undifferentiated state.

Nope, if you can get a statement of all things in its duality and a few examples, you may be able to get a type 2. But this is still the 1

Again. He used the universe and himself as one example to shown that everything has two sides. Read the scans

 

[Executor_N0]

I suggest to link the scans this CRT is all about, it literally starts as a Spanish text, then a Japanese one and two English translations without giving the source of the statement. It's always good to link the scans.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Have no real opinion on which type, but the quote seems so obviously machineTL’d that I asked a personal translator for a more direct one.

わたしは アルセウス。無むの中なかの有ゆう。わたしたちも 宇宙うちゅうも 有ゆうであり無む……すべては 表裏一体ひょうりいったいなのです。

I am Arceus. I exist within nothingness. We, and the universe, are both something and nothing... Everything has these two sides.

 

[Sniper670]

Well, it's basically saying the same thing that other versions mentioned tho.

 

[Sniper670]

I suggest to link the scans this CRT is all about, it literally starts as a Spanish text, then a Japanese one and two English translations without giving the source of the statement. It's always good to link the scans.

Well I listed the source of the statement

 

[Sniper670]

BUMP

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

why are you using Chinese cosmology to scale the duality statement here?
did pokemon expand on their duality or nothingness with direct and specific reference to those?
You can't just assume it follows a philosophy without it being directly expanded within the franchise or now mentioning or elaborating that it pertains to such a philosophy/cosmological structure.

also, Milly's more accurate translation doesn't directly mention duality anymore. which causes the reasoning to become even more flimsy
disagree. unless you have more to add in the OP

 

[sen_]

Nothingness is the Primordial Chaos where everything was one and the same. Ugh

The Pokémon world is governed by a Duality.

Primordial Chaos is the absence of 1 and 0. As it's the undifferentiation before distinctions came into being.. Just look at Scarlet kind Transduality Type 3

Both exist in the Original Spirit

from what you're saying nothingness seems to be Both A and B, the Pokèmon world seems to be A, B (not both of them, either one or the other). Why would Primordial Chaos be neither A nor B when it's the undifferentiation before distinctions came into being? I don't see 5 truth states here and from what you presented this is probably type 1 without context of all dualities

 

[Sniper670]

from what you're saying nothingness seems to be Both A and B, the Pokèmon world seems to be A, B (not both of them, either one or the other). Why would Primordial Chaos be neither A nor B when it's the undifferentiation before distinctions came into being? I don't see 5 truth states here and from what you presented this is probably type 1 without context of all dualities

The multiverse is governed by duality

Primordial Chaos is undifferentiation before Duality. Wuji is type 3 from the old standards.

Both exist inside the Spirit, which is mind.
So A, he's not 1, nor 0, nor both, nor neither

 

[sen_]

The multiverse is governed by duality

Primordial Chaos is undifferentiation before Duality. Wuji is type 3 from the old standards.

Both exist inside the Spirit, which is mind.
So A, he's not 1, nor 0, nor both, nor neither

i see no mention/reference of Wuji itself, unless it's directly mentioned i don't think we can assume something follows a certain idea/concept, also the op scans still only mention a certain duality.

 

[Sniper670]

i see no mention/reference of Wuji itself, unless it's directly mentioned i don't think we can assume something follows a certain idea/concept, also the op scans still only mention a certain duality.

It's as if you didn't even bother to read

In Chinese cosmology there was originally hun-tun, an undifferentiated luminous cloud, a void with no boundary, emptiness, a potential state. The hun-tun is sometimes considered a state of chaos in that is undivided, whole, a state where everything is mixed together. This potential, undifferentiated primordial state is also called Wu Ji. Wu Ji means literally “no limit” or “no polarity.” It is the “One,”

 

[sen_]

It's as if you didn't even bother to read

i read it, just because you mention philosophical concepts doesn't necessarily mean they exist in-verse unless the series itself mentions them. Without Wuji being mentioned the primordial chaos would be TD 2 (Both A and B) as it literally shows in the scan you provided here

 

[Sniper670]

i read it, just because you mention philosophical concepts doesn't necessarily mean they exist in-verse unless the series itself mentions them. Without Wuji being mentioned the primordial chaos would be TD 2 (Both A and B) as it literally shows in the scan you provided here

Wuji is Type 3.

It's nothing, it's the undifferentiation 0 and 1 don't exist. It's literally in my scans NOTHING it's neither 1 nor 0. It's blank

 

[sen_]

Wuji is Type 3.

just because you mention philosophical concepts doesn't necessarily mean they exist in-verse unless the series itself mentions them.

 

[Sniper670]

Yes. Not everything has to be called a concept for it to be considered conceptual in nature

 

[sen_]

Wuji is Type 3.

It's nothing, it's the undifferentiation 0 and 1 don't exist. It's literally in my scans NOTHING it's neither 1 nor 0. It's blank

here and here it's explicitly mentioned that everything coexists in a Nondual state of oneness, that's blatantly both A and B and i don't see anything suggesting otherwise for now.

 

[theultimate5105]

Going with what I am pretty sure this is saying overall
Normal Multiverse=1 and Distortion World=0
The Pokemon world which includes both of those as two sides would be both 1 and 0
The Primordial Nothingness exists outside of that so it would be not 1 or 0 and 1 and 0 instead being neither 1 or 0
The Heart contains all of that within itself and is beyond all of it so it is not any of those. This seems to be 5 Truth States so I agree with Transduality type 3

 

[Sniper670]

here and here it's explicitly mentioned that everything coexists in a Nondual state of oneness, that's blatantly both A and B and i don't see anything suggesting otherwise for now.

Oneness is Taiji. It is both 1 and 0 combined.

Wuji (無極) is Nothingness derived from Daoism. It particularly means no extremity and no polarities. It refers to the beginning stage of everything. In other words, everything starts from Wuji, Nothingness

Polarities don't exist, it's not 1 and 0, it's NOTHING, not 1 and 0 combined. It's the negation. Distinction don't exist. Get that right

 

[sen_]

Oneness is Taiji. It is both 1 and 0 combined.



Polarities don't exist, it's not 1 and 0, it's NOTHING, not 1 and 0 combined. It's the negation. Distinction don't exist. Get that right

i'm not talking about Taiji nor Wuji, i'm talking about the primordial chaos. Mentioning Taiji or Wuji is not good evidence for your claim unless those concepts are effectively existing concepts in the series