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Yeah
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Transduality Should be Nonduality
- Thread starter Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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They would still have immunity to those concepts, but not an immunity to concept transfer ( which is kind of a rare ability to begin with)
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Bruh... it is like my idea for split the immunity to 2 part
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #404
Yeah that's just, straight up wrong. Being able to have your immunity removed does not mean you should not be given an immunity. This was outright rejected in another thread. If a character lacks a thing, as nondual characters do, then they are immune to the manipulation of that thing - It does not need to be any more complicated than that.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #405
Also like. do yall even have staff permission to keep commenting here lol
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dt isnt gonna comment here, might as well get ultima or get this quickly resolved
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #407
I think I already roughly know Ultima's position, but yeah he should be pinged.
Georredannea15
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I've already explained that the absence of something doesn't always make you immune to them in that battle. If you are independent of a binary system, you cannot get non-duality anyway, because the same standards apply to BDE. But if you lack a binary system, those concepts can be transferred to you by another force or created within you, in which case you are no longer immune.
There are many examples of this in fiction. Also Qawsedf seems to agree with me on this, but it would be best to ask him.
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An external force removing your immunity does not mean you never had that immunity in the first place, though
Georredannea15
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But it does not mean that you are completely immune to it. That's why "we don't give immunity or BDE to characters who are outside of space-time" because they can still be affected by that level. Just because he's outside that system doesn't mean he's inherently immune to it.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #411
So are characters without souls no longer immune to soul manipulation, because they can have souls bestowed on them? Think about what this logic entails for literally anything outside of transduality, please. Hell, you haven't even given a real example of this "weakness"; It's just speculation.
Also,
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One example i can think off the top of my head is the black barrel from the nasuverse, it introduces the concept of death to beings shot by it
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@Georredannea15 mean they will still immune but not completely. We just will make ND and TD like BDE 1 and 2
Or can you say what the different if you have ND and you have TD if we not seperate the benefit of immunity between they two. ND will give immunity to duality and TD will give immunity to duality, so what the different???
Georredannea15
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A soulless character is immune, yes. However, when a soul is transferred through an outside force or a soul is created within the soulless person, that character is no longer immune to spiritual attacks. Just as Lucifer gave a soul to a soulless angel and punished him.
Also, being outside a system or a cycle does not mean that you are immune to it. For example, if you are not in a burning forest, you are not cultivated by fire, but this does not mean that you are immune to it
Georredannea15
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The problem is that you can still conceptually attack a character with ND. In line with what I just said, and Qawsedf seemed to agree with me. But I would say that one of the biggest mistakes is to think that being outside a system gives ND. We have the same standards for BDE, but a character outside of space-time does not qualify for BDE. You have to be lack of space-time dimensions, not outside of them.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #416
My brother in christ who the **** is talking about things "outside" duality. The entire premise of this thread is based on those who lack duality.
Also I will just straight up make an RVR report if you keep commenting here without staff permission.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #417
I mean that's probably valid, but we're talking about duality specifically.
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Well... yeah.
If you bestow a soul onto something and they can't resist that ability, they would now be susceptible to soul manipulation. Its how power bestowal works.
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To expand further with this comment
The key difference is that one who is transcendent will make the soul irrelevant to him that even if he is bestowed soul it will not affect such character in any way
and someone who isn't transcendent can be bestowed upon by a soul and be prone again.
because like what transcendent means. he already transcends the existence and lack thereof something. thus it is way above the regular lack of something or soulless.
In the same way, one who is Immo Type 5 is likely someone who is nondual in the duality of life and death but one can inflict the concept of death upon them so that they once again be bound by such a concept while someone who is transcendent to the idea of life and death would make both irrelevant to him and not apply regardless of applied or not upon him.
Having immunity from lacking thereof =/= having immunity for transcending such a thing
if the existence of nonduality can simply be indexed as a similar ability like
soulless having immunity to soul manipulation or being listed as Type 2 Inorganic physiology or such then it is better to classify it as that and described it
as having redundant abilities makes profiles unnecessarily bloat. if the fiction calls it nondual yet explains it as something that is in our definition transdual then we index it as transduality
Georredannea15
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Thanks Qawsedf
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #421
Okay, so we should nuke immunity to soulhax entirely, yeah? Because nobody with that power meets the bullshit criteria you're proposing. Same for any "immunity", actually.
Georredannea15
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You could be a little more calm. It won't be nice for you if you don't.
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Soulhax is manipulation of a soul. It's why if you have no soul there's nothing to manipulate. If you can give that thing a soul with an a ability then soulhax can manipulate that soul. But soul hax on its own isn't going to do anything. A secondary power would be required.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #424
lol
You're not even supposed to be commenting here at all man. See you in the RVR!
You're not even supposed to be commenting here at all man. See you in the RVR!
Georredannea15
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I've taken the day off before, i am even one of the first to take permission and write a comment so it's cool man.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #426
Right so
There exist forms of resistance negation that strip a character of their resistances entirely. Does this mean that no character should ever be considered to have "resistance" to anything, because of the possibility that they will lose their resistances?
Think carefully about what the answer entails for your current line of thinking.
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iirc, he did get permission
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #428
Where? In any case, staff permission only allows for a single post, at least as far as I know.
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The thread is a month and a half old so I don't exactly remember
IdiosyncraticLawyer
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Thread Moderators and Administrators can only grant permission for one post at a time; only Bureaucrats have discretion to grant indefinite posting rights.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #431
Thank you. To sum up my points, saying that being able to be bound to something means you aren't immune to it would necessitate the removal of all immunities and resistances; It is an absurd claim to make, one that was heavily rejected beforehand, and is such a niche possibility that it isn't worth considering at all when it makes other profiles less accurate.
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That was clarified with the recent Staff Thread. So I wouldn't say people before that should be punished for not knowing all the nuances.
I was saying that in a rare case that someone can impose a system onto someone else, I don't see why a ND character would be immune to that. Just having death hax or life manipulation wouldn't be enough to target someone with ND.
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Yeah, that makes more sense.
Georredannea15
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I swear, that's all I was trying to say.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #435
And I'm saying that that's an excruciatingly rare scenario, one where the basis of nonduality being treated as a form of immunity is still acceptable because the only case where it wouldn't work like that... Is in a hypothetical scenario that won't even crop up 99.99% of the time. Like the fact that I still haven't seen a single, genuine example of a character being bound to duality and rendered vulnerable to attack because of it shows how weak this argument is.
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I'm not saying it is common MDF, I'm explaining what one of the differences between ND and TD would be. Same with the other person who was just trying to quantify the difference between the powers.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #437
Okay, so is my draft of the page which explains that acceptable? I think TD would share the same weakness once smurf hax get involved, since claiming otherwise would be an NLF.
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Yeah your draft is fine.
If only any other mod would comment
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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IdiosyncraticLawyer
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I, who was just appointed today, am personally fine with Nonduality and Transduality being different Natures of one power the same way NEP has its three Natures. The Types would, I'm assuming, remain Specific Nonduality, General Nonduality, and Plurality.
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