• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Transcending or beyond time

Status
Not open for further replies.
XXKINGXX69

XXKINGXX69

5,879
1,072
If its literal and accepted as being literal due to whatever context, its immeasurable speed, right? Verses like Persona are like that
 
Confluctor said:
I think those files have extra context than what's just written there .



Also most of them are outdated af and hasn't been updated in a long time. We have a lot which has immeasurable because they are above time and space, but they shouldn't be. However, no one tried updating them.
Click to expand...
Nah, those are recent.

Also, yeah they have context to make them not hyperbole but literal. Thats what I'm asking
 
Honestly immeasurable speed is shit and the standards for it pretty bad/confusing. So no idea how it will get accepted.
 
The porblme is that transcending or being above time does not have a definitive meaning, no matter how literal you get, we don't have a basis for what "transcending time" means so characters who do so have to be evaluated based on what it gives them.
 
The problem is really just that some people like to think that making stuff beyond Infinite is cool regardless of whether it makes sense or not.
 
Tbf immensurable speed being above infinite makes sense, but does any work actually has a immensurable character act like he has it? At least with infinite speed they can view stuff as frozen and cross infinite distances, but the only ones that seem aware of immensurable are those that exist through time or view the periods as one.
 
Thelastmlg said:
Tbf immensurable speed being above infinite makes sense, but does any work actually has a immensurable character act like he has it? At least with infinite speed they can view stuff as frozen and cross infinite distances, but the only ones that seem aware of immensurable are those that exist through time or view the periods as one.
Click to expand...
It's really just glorified Time Travel no matter how you take it. Being able to move through time doesn't translate how you move through an actual distance.
 
Thelastmlg said:
The porblme is that transcending or being above time does not have a definitive meaning, no matter how literal you get, we don't have a basis for what "transcending time" means so characters who do so have to be evaluated based on what it gives them.
Click to expand...
There is, though
 
Also as to why joker is immeasurable you might wanna ask a smt supporter for that.
 
Theoretically speaking, Immeasurable speed is a speed that user can move and attack simultaneously across past, present and future, at any point on the time axis without restriction of time. But yeah QuasiYuri by all mean is right, in some aspect it is a glorified Time Travel, and our standard suck, as most of the profile on our wiki doesn't actually demonstrate the actual potency of the so-called Immeasurable speed. Most of those get the speed because they are stated to have "speed unbound/transcended the time axis or space-time' but somehow in the lore they still be bound by time itself
 
Being faster than time can flow simply grants Infinite speed rather than Immeasurable speed. You kind of have to be both; above time and beyond time to reach Immeasurable; the former just grants infinite if literally while the latter just gives you time travel and dimensional travel.

And yeah, Immeasurable speed in general is really difficult to get and the likelihood of Immeasurable speed feats being prone to outliers even rivals that of Tier 1 AP feats. It really should only be applied if 100% literal in nearly every corner and should not be confused with Time Travel, Dimensional Travel, Temporal Area of Effect, or Omnipresence.
 
I disagree with getting rid of Immeasurable speed outright; not going to happen. Not that it's without good reasons, but in all seriousness it's definitely a thing.
 
The standards on immeasurable speed are very confusing. First you just needed to transcend time, then you need feats of being able to travel back in time through sheer speed, and now that's apparently just time travel. I see little point in keeping it tbh.
 
It's not "Just time travel" it's being able to freely move across time while being capable of actively reacting "Faster than instantly". Which the "Faster than instantly" reaction is probably the most important detail.
 
The problem about the Immeasurable speed is:
1. Theoretically speaking, when you treat time as a line, and each point on it is a moment in time, when your speed transcended it, mean you are unbound by it thus allow you to trivialized time axis as a line and you can move and attack simultaneously on all points on across the line, thus strike at any moment in time because each moment = a point on the line which called time (time axis). well in other perspective, it is a time travel ability on steroid
2. But when it come to this speed, inconsistency happen all the time, as on theory, with this kind of speed, time is not problem anymore, but somehow character with these mightly speed incapable of actually demonstrate the real potency of the speed itself

QuasiYuri said:
Being able to move through time doesn't translate how you move through an actual distance.
Click to expand...
Actually, when you treat time as a line, and each point on it is a moment in time, move across the line is still distance, the thing is, the distance here is not spatial distance, but temporal distance.

But **** yeah, i dislike our current standard, it is bad as hell, some verse doesn't need actual feat, just like DMC get Immeasurable speed because the boss somehow is said to have speed transcended the time axis, but failed to demonstrate the actual strength of the speed itself, and some verse have feat but was dumbed down to just time travel hax
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
It's not "Just time travel" it's being able to freely move across time while being capable of actively reacting "Faster than instantly". Which the "Faster than instantly" reaction is probably the most important detail.
Click to expand...
In our wiki virtually all characters with immeasurable speed don't have feat of moving faster than instantly at all, they just move through time via sheer speed to get that rating on profiles

And tbh moving faster than instantly can just be used as supporting evidence since characters with speed that is faster than infinity can be faster than instantly as well, and just because you can move faster than instantly doesn't mean you can travel through time at all, so uh, it's not really an important detail at all
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
It's not "Just time travel" it's being able to freely move across time while being capable of actively reacting "Faster than instantly". Which the "Faster than instantly" reaction is probably the most important detail.
Click to expand...
"Faster than instantly" being Time Travel through movements (otherwise Last Boss characters wouldn't just be Infinite speed).

While I know the wiki never will get rid od that tumor, it isn't anything but a made-up idea created because Infinite didn't sound cool enough to stop there.

Worst offender may be the fact that the wiki actively want to use actual stuff as a basis for huge tiering, but prefer to write their own fanfic for speed.
 
many people say that immea is very confusing, but to me the concept of immeasurable seems simple, you have to move faster than linear time so that it is expressed outside the timeline itself, if you can go to the future even the past, it is not enough to be immeasurable, maybe you will get a time travel or a time stop, the most important thing here is the performance itself, if the performance shows you are moving using speed, you will get immeasurable, if the performance does not show speed, you will get hax
 
Shiro0404 said:
many people say that immea is very confusing, but to me the concept of immeasurable seems simple, you have to move faster than linear time so that it is expressed outside the timeline itself, if you can go to the future even the past, it is not enough to be immeasurable, maybe you will get a time travel or a time stop, the most important thing here is the performance itself, if the performance shows you are moving using speed, you will get immeasurable, if the performance does not show speed, you will get hax
Click to expand...
A lot of characters have Time Travel through speed.
The idea is simple, but it really still is shit.
 
Either the standards need to be changed/properly clarified, or it’s better off we just nuke this rating.

Something as simple as “faster than instantly” would make the standards much more clear, if that is how immeasurable speed works.
 
Faster than instantly mean you backward yourself in time though, because instantly mean movement of time = 0 (time standstill), faster than it thus movement of time = -1
 
Last edited:
tbh Immeasurable speed should just be omnipresent within time and extra standards should line up with it since it will be omnipresent. if they are not omnipresent it should just be time travel (I have in my mind while others called immeasurable speed wanked time travel I think of it as passive time travel which sounds stupid but how I see it mostly). if people really want to keep immeasurable speed its standard should be fixed and elaborated properly with stricter standards to make it different from time travel by sheer speed.
 
Saying "Immeasurable speed is just combat applicable time travel" is the same thing as saying "Infinite speed is just combat applicable teleportation". Those abilities aren't actually speed in itself; teleportation and time travel don't require reaction times of 0 or less than 0 respectively. The definitions of Infinite and Immeasurable speed on the pages are fine, just some people like to take them and other abilities out of context.

Reason why Omnipresence isn't actually speed is because they don't actually move in the 1st place; their attacks travel 0 distance and manages to hit their targets; Infinite speed requires either a distance greater than 0 under a timeframe of 0 or an infinite distance within a finite time. Immeasurable speed is a distance greater than 0 under time that's less than 0. Some characters don't always control where they can travel through time, or can travel through time but lack space travel or struggle to react to finite speed projectiles. Omnipresent characters never travel any greater than 0 distance despite everything always taking 0 time. But the thing is, 0/0 is undefined and thus not really a speed feat.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Requiem_Yoriichi
Should we have a Speed tier beyond Immeasurable?
Replies
3
Views
636
Astral_Trinity439
Astral_Trinity439
Jesterofgames
A few persona related questions
Replies
9
Views
716
Jesterofgames
Jesterofgames
CNBA3
What does 4-D beings qualify as?
Replies
5
Views
565
Digital_Franz
Digital_Franz
Requiem_Yoriichi
Does Qualitative Superiority grant Immeasurable Speed?
Replies
2
Views
1K
Requiem_Yoriichi
Requiem_Yoriichi
Kubo423
Immeasurable speed
Replies
1
Views
828
Vietthai96
Vietthai96
Back
Top