Tower of Saviors Cosmology

[Planck69]

The state without limitations statement is nothing on its own.

The infinite worlds bit is probably 2-A.

Incomprehensibility of higher dimensional beings is good support but isn't worth much on its own.

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

The state without limitations statement is nothing on its own.

The infinite worlds bit is probably 2-A.

Incomprehensibility of higher dimensional beings is good support but isn't worth much on its own.

How about this context?

the higher dimensional being's consciousness is stated to transcend spatio-temporal dimensions.

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

ump

 

[Bernkastelll]

the cosmology starts off by a statement that says that everything began with a state without limitations

there are the existence of higher dimensions along with infinite amount of worlds containing higher spatio-temporal dimensions as well.

beings from these higher dimensions are incomprehensible to the perspective of other lower dimensional beings causing their souls to disperse and their bodies to be crushed through the presence of these beings from a higher dimension alone.

I would say High 1-B due having infinite of these higher-dimensions that are icomprehensible to the lower ones, but the example regarding of ''causing their souls to disperse'' doesnt really proves tier 1, so, it could be either 2-A or High 1-B

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

I would say High 1-B due having infinite of these higher-dimensions that are icomprehensible to the lower ones, but the example regarding of ''causing their souls to disperse'' doesnt really proves tier 1, so, it could be either 2-A or High 1-B

how about if this context is included:

the higher dimensional being's consciousness is stated to transcend spatio-temporal dimensions.

 

[Sus]

simply transcending stuff isn't enough for tier 1

please prove the gap is equivalent to ∞^∞

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

simply transcending stuff isn't enough for tier 1

please prove the gap is equivalent to ∞^∞

It also works if the reality in particular is as insignificant as a shadow of a higher dimensional entity right?

 

[Sus]

It also works if the reality in particular is as insignificant as a shadow of a higher dimensional entity right?

uhhh.. well this may work

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

uhhh.. well this may work

“What is that? I really want to know.” Mordiggian behaved slightly different from the fellows; its curiosity was still lingering in heart.

Breaking loose from the fellows, Mordiggian sprinted as fast as a leopard towards the descending shadow, as if it was chasing after its own fantasy. Mordiggian passed through the woods, regardless of the bleeding leaf scratches on its skin. All the concentration was on that destination.

Eventually, Mordiggian arrived at a rather flat place in the forest, where light shone over that shadow. Mordiggian raised its head to gaze at the great being——Daoloth the creator.

“Ah...how divine it is. I’m just too humble to look directly upon…”

The existence of Daoloth was way beyond its comprehension. Overloaded with messages, Mordiggian’s body, consciousness and even soul were being squeezed.

Eyes, ears, nose started bleeding; skin was decaying; and pain was penetrating through all over its soul. However, Mordiggian’s will was unwavering to maintain direct gaze at Daoloth.

To Mordiggian, the existence of Daoloth remained incomprehensible. As merely a low and ignorant being, tremendous fear kept surging in its heart, the fear of the unknown; but at the same time, a strong desire emerged.

whelp finally got it

 

[Sus]

“What is that? I really want to know.” Mordiggian behaved slightly different from the fellows; its curiosity was still lingering in heart.

Breaking loose from the fellows, Mordiggian sprinted as fast as a leopard towards the descending shadow, as if it was chasing after its own fantasy. Mordiggian passed through the woods, regardless of the bleeding leaf scratches on its skin. All the concentration was on that destination.

Eventually, Mordiggian arrived at a rather flat place in the forest, where light shone over that shadow. Mordiggian raised its head to gaze at the great being——Daoloth the creator.

“Ah...how divine it is. I’m just too humble to look directly upon…”

The existence of Daoloth was way beyond its comprehension. Overloaded with messages, Mordiggian’s body, consciousness and even soul were being squeezed.

Eyes, ears, nose started bleeding; skin was decaying; and pain was penetrating through all over its soul. However, Mordiggian’s will was unwavering to maintain direct gaze at Daoloth.

To Mordiggian, the existence of Daoloth remained incomprehensible. As merely a low and ignorant being, tremendous fear kept surging in its heart, the fear of the unknown; but at the same time, a strong desire emerged.

whelp finally got it

this doesn't imply transcendence, this only says that the power of daoloth is un-understandable

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

this doesn't imply transcendence, this only says that the power of daoloth is un-understandable

really?

I'm sure it states that Mordiggan was trying to gaze at Daoloth's shadow which if prolonged would cause his soul, body and mind to die out.

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

but anyway.

Q: What tier is transcending space and time?
A: As said above, "transcending space and time" is a very vague statement by itself and can mean multiple things depending on the context in which it is made, as well as how this characteristic is portrayed in the first place. It is perfectly possible for such a statement to mean that a character is simply "untied" from the universe's spacetime, and is thus unaffected by alterations in the timeline and similar meddlings. Likewise, it's not exactly uncommon for time travel (Or any action / process that affects something through different points in time) to be described as "transcending time and space."

However, if it is specified that they "transcend space and time" in the sense that they exist on some higher level of reality that is outright superior to a spacetime continuum in nature, then they should be put at Low 1-C, assuming the continuum in question is one comprised of four dimensions. The answer may vary depending on this factor.

I heard that this would no longer be applicable.

 

[Sus]

really?

I'm sure it states that Mordiggan was trying to gaze at Daoloth's shadow which if prolonged would cause his soul, body and mind to die out.

this is madness manipulation overlapped with soul destruction

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

this is madness manipulation overlapped with soul destruction

it is but, is transcending "space-time" still valid for low 1C and above?

 

[Arkenis]

beings from these higher dimensions are incomprehensible to the perspective of other lower dimensional beings causing their souls to disperse and their bodies to be crushed through the presence of these beings from a higher dimension alone.

This sounds like 4d soul hax tbh due to their higher dimensionality

 

[Sus]

it is but, is transcending "space-time" still valid for low 1C and above?

viewing stuff as shadows, idk man do u have more context?

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

viewing stuff as shadows, idk man do u have more context?

how about if this context is included:

the higher dimensional being's consciousness is stated to transcend spatio-temporal dimensions.

 

[Sus]

transcending spacetime isn't always L1C

 

[Arkenis]

Yea, it can always be immeasurable speed, going outside the universe via some ability, or being cut from the control of spacetime.

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

transcending spacetime isn't always L1C

it says space time dimensions, not just space time. well Sonic has it via existing outside space-time so I had to ask.

 

[Sus]

i think "at least 2-A, possibly Low 1-C." is fine

 

[Sus]

it says space time dimensions, not just space time. well Sonic has it via existing outside space-time so I had to ask.

as said in other threads, sonic has more context to it

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

as said in other threads, sonic has more context to it

I checked it....yes it states the chaos force exists outside of time and space, time being irrelevant, existing in a higher plane yadda yadda,.

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

i think "at least 2-A, possibly Low 1-C." is fine

we'll wait for the others input

 

[Arkenis]

we'll wait for the others input

What do you think it is right now?

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

What do you think it is right now?

I have no notion

 

[Everything12]

i think "at least 2-A, possibly Low 1-C." is fine

I don't.

 

[Sus]

I don't.

what do you think then?
11C is always an option yk

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

I don't.

The existence of lower dimensions such as 0, 1st, 2nd and 3rd are clear to all, so why can't the higher spatio-temporal dimensions be superior to the 4th?

It all began with a seed-like black dot. The dot gradually proliferated into lines, criss-crossing each other, eventually into planes. They started building layers and evolved into a completely still sphere. After a livelong waiting, signs of weak pulse appeared on the glossy surface. Then it grew stronger and stronger enough to distort the entire sphere until the shape could not hold——

edit: we should still wait for others input

 

[Overlord775]

the cosmology starts off by a statement that says that everything began with a state without limitations

there are the existence of higher dimensions along with infinite amount of worlds containing higher spatio-temporal dimensions as well.

Could you give me the source these statements come from ?

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

I don't.

I'm not too sure on what should be changed, exactly. Certainly, a vague notion of "more complexity" wouldn't necessarily get you to a higher tier, especially given how some verses can actually have higher levels of existence and the like be simpler instead. But an existential superiority over a spacetime continuum should qualify pretty straightforwardly.

 

[Everything12]

Knowing Ultima what they are saying is nowhere close to as simple to understand as you think and this "existential superiority" is like the most important part of what they said and has super specific requirements that only 0.001% of verses that mention being above Space-Time meets.

its happened several times in the past with other such things Ultima has said about meeting the standards of Tier 1.

And as we have noped several other verses for Tier 1 for similar statements as whwt you have given I'm sticking to no.

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

Knowing Ultima what they are saying is nowhere close to as simple to understand as you think and this "existential superiority" is like the most important part of what they said and has super specific requirements that only 0.001% of verses that mention being above Space-Time meets.

its happened several times in the past with other such things Ultima has said about meeting the standards of Tier 1.

And as we have noped several other verses for Tier 1 for similar statements as whwt you have given I'm sticking to no.

besides the statements of "infinitely superior to the last" or "viewing reality as fiction" are there other specific statements?

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

Could you give me the source these statements come from ?

Sorry for not seeing this comment, I'm actually trying to get one of its original chinese statements translated

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

Depends. As the FAQ says, if you are "beyond spacetime" only in the sense that you exist detached from its structure, then it wouldn't necessarily be Low 1-C, and the same could be accomplished by a 4-dimensional entity, even, since they would have the same amount of dimensions as the spacetime continuum itself and thus not exist in its 3-dimensional subspaces. But if your existence is one that exceeds the axes themselves, as opposed to just existing apart from, or relative to them, you should qualify, yeah. I already some of the logic behind that in here.

this seems logical.

 

[Everything12]

Talked to the Bureaucrat AKM, unless Ultima themselves come into the Thread and confirm their agreement this is not a valid statement.