Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,828
- 12,447
Alright, before I actually begin, there's something I need to address. Namely, some important terms and concepts are often referred to in different ways at different points by different characters. Establishing exactly what equals what will be important for the sake of comprehension and scaling.
The UES in question is pretty inconsistent in name. Here is every scan I could find related to magic, spells, spirit, sorcery, and how they are used interchangeably. Contextually, these are all referring to some kind of power source (which is the UES I'm gonna be talking about here). There are obviously more scans about magic and the like, but this is solely concerned with how these terms are used interchangeably.
So Rinnsouke's statement directly equates magic and sorcery. ZUN then says that spell cards are 'magic spells', so we can reasonably say that spells/spell cards are magic and sorcery too. Closing this loop, we have Kanako in SoPM saying that magic is a spiritual force, tying it back to spirit.
Finally, to further strengthen the connection between spirit and magic, in Cheating Detective Satori, multiple youkai get possessed and are drained of their magical energy. Additionally, according to Eirin, youkai are primarily spiritual beings.
Why would being drained of magic so heavily affect beings made of spirit if magic and spirit are two unconnected power sources? The connection is further supported by Satori in CDS saying that magic is connected to a youkai's life force.
Backed up by Kanako's statement, this makes it obvious that magic and spirit are one and the same.
From all of this, we can conclude that magic = sorcery = spells= spirit.
Onto the UES.
The world is build on 3 layers, each of which determines certain aspects of reality. The exact hax that control over each layer grants were already accepted in the second god physiology upgrade done by @Hecatia_Gaming, so I’ll just relist them here (slightly edited based on a later revision).
Physical Layer = Physics & Gravity Manipulation.
Mental Layer = Magic, Soul, Mind & Empathic Manipulation.
Memory Layer = Causality, Fate & Probability Manipulation.
The mental layer is what's important here; as it includes magic and sorcery, which we've equated to spirit and spells/spell power. Magic moves alongside the spirit, or soul. So anyone who can use magic can control the soul as well, as the two are intertwined. Note that this is different from spirit as a power source, since it says the spirit, and not spirit as a general concept. We also see that the mentions of "one's mood turning sour" and "releasing all your stress and cares" means the mental layer determines the emotions of people as well.
So magic stems from control over the mental layer, which determines the emotions of others, and moves alongside the soul. This would give every single character listed below Magic, Soul Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, and Empathic Manipulation.
Now we just need to figure out who this scales to.
We have WoG that spell cards are ‘magic spells’, so this can reasonably be applied to every character who can use spell cards (so the vast majority of the verse).
Given that most youkai are explicitly stated to control the world through the mental layer, and are literally made of spirit, this should scale to every youkai as well, even those we don’t see using spell cards (Koakuma, Kisume, Lord Tenma, En’enra, Tokiko, and Rei'sen). Yes, I'm aware the quote says 'most', but we have literally no way to quantify who's being excluded here.
At this point, it’d probably be easier to list the characters this won’t affect, so let's get that out of the way. These characters obviously have supernatural powers to some extent, but I cannot confidently say they’re using magic/sorcery/spirit like everyone else is. If someone has proof of them doing so, please tell me and I’ll update the list.
Daiyousei, Layla Prismriver, Youki Konpaku, Yorihime, Toyohime, Chang'e, Houyi, Lord Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu Oomikami, Mizue no Uranoshimako, Konohana-Sakuyahime, Iwanagahime, Shirou Sendai, Evil Dragon, Maribel, Renko, Akyuu, Kosuzu, Rinnosuke, Amitabha, Yatagarasu, Fairies, Phantoms, and The 8 Million Gods.
Finally, I wanna go over how exactly this fits within the proposed UES guidelines, just so there’s no confusion. Technically these aren’t set in stone, and I originally wanted to wait until the guidelines were done until doing this CRT, but the guidelines don’t seem to be changing too much from where they are now and I decided I’d rather not wait since a downgrade based primarily on Touhou’s lack of a UES could happen sooner rather than later since I know quite a few people have an issue with universal Touhou.
-Users need to have the capacity to use their powers to directly channel their power through their own bodies and physical objects in a way that quantifiably enhances them such as:
Empowering the user’s own physical characteristics like striking strength, speed and durability
There must be statements or showings that the character's abilities (And their feats) also scale or are equal to their physical statistics via the energy system.
There must also be statements or showings that an increase in power/energy levels or that an increase in the amount of energy used from the energy system also relates to a proportional increase in their physical statistics. (A good example is Ki from Dragon Ball, where a higher amount of ki/power levels results in proportionally higher levels of physical punching strength, speed, durability and aerial capabilities)
We have explicit confirmation that magic can be used to enhance physical capabilities; after all, this is basically Byakuren’s entire fighting style. Ran and Chen also make use of magic that enhances their physical abilities.
Additionally, in ULiL, a higher amount of spell power (ie; spirit power) is directly proportional to both the damage one deals with spell cards. Numerous spell cards are primarily physical in nature and are still powered up by a higher amount of spell power (such as Mokou’s Undying "'South Wind, Clear Sky' Soaring Kick", Marisa's Comet "Blazing Star", Kasen's Wrap Sign "Prosthetic Arm Proteus", etc).
Direct correlation needs to be established between the universal energy system and the character’s physical characteristics and to their outright power or potential capabilities (There must be evidence/statements/showings that an increase in one’s power/energy level, or an increase in the amount of energy/power used from the energy system, also results in a proportional increase in one’s physical statistics)
See above; more spell power = more physical power. Not much else to add here.
Onto the supplementary stuff.
-A removal of said power source/system should generally need to be represented as a dramatic loss in power for the user.
The loss of power being portrayed as traumatic or harmful would also support this claim.
Throughout Cheating Detective Satori, multiple youkai get possessed and lose access to their abilities and are placed into a coma. This is explicitly referred to as depowering, being drained of magical energy, so on and so forth. This should very clearly qualify as traumatic or harmful.
-It should help if the energy system is generally shown to be to explicitly be a common source of power within the verse. The most important aspect of this is that the energy source should generally be shown to be readily available and usable for all relevant abilities of the individual user of the energy source/system/type.
We already know that spell cards use magic; considering spell cards are the go-to means of resolving issues within Gensokyo, and the vast majority of characters in the series use them on a regular basis, magic is obviously a common source of power in the verse, even when considering the several other characters who can use magic despite never showing any spell cards.
-If the energy system is generally shown to have a core underpinning to the verse’s metaphysical or natural elements and/or must be tightly integrated into the verse’s lore, this would certainly be a helpful piece of evidence that would help to further lessen the burden to prove the validity of scaling abilities and physical characteristics to the same level via an energy system (For example: The Force in Star Wars “binding the universe together” and being tied to all life)
Once again, this should be fairly obvious. The mental layer is one of the three fundamental layers that makes up the world itself, youkai are literally made of spirit, and magic is tied to their very lives.
TL;DR:
-We have a UES now, so we can now use Raiko’s storm creation feat and Cirno’s freezing feats for the low tiers. The high tiers can now unquestionably scale the various universal feats (Doremy and Yukari's dream creation, Sagume’s occult ball creation, Kaguya’s corridor creation, etc) to physical statistics.
-Everyone in the verse (with a handful of exceptions listed above) should get Magic, Soul Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, and Empathic Manipulation.
Now then, if there are no issues here, I believe there are some Cirno feats that need calcs...
For the record, based on how the games treat spirit power I'm pretty sure a good case could be made for Soul/Energy Absorption, but digging too much into that was overwhelming me so I'll probably save it for later.
AGREE: 11 (BlastX, Shmooply, Meganova_Stella, Overlord_Donnelly, Pixy, Kuro4416, OnsokunoSonic, Veloxt1r0kore, Mobi2, Hecatia_Gaming, LephyrTheRevanchist)
DISAGREE: 1 (Malomtek)
NEUTRAL: 1 (LordGriffin1000)
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