Touhou: Massively FTL+ Everyone (almost)

[Fllflourine]

Though we scale nearly every 6-C in Touhou to Cirno, the Moon Rabbits, who are fodder themselves, are Massively FTL+, and there's little else suggesting a moon rabbit is above the average 6-C Youkai (whom are far from fodder, and much above Cirno) besides that they come from the Moon. Which, isn't exactly the most solid thing (Though they seem to be the Moon's equivalent to fairies, albeit stronger). In Chapter 13, a simple fairy maid was able to somewhat keep pace with a moon rabbit. This is on the Lunar Capital's page.

It's quite baffling how the Moon rabbits, who are fodder, are MFTL+ for blitzing Reimu and regularly travelling distances in such a timeframe as to be MFTL+, yet 6-C youkai remain simply FTL for scaling to someone even more fodder-y than the moon rabbits.

But speaking of fairies, some of them are able to move at MFTL+ speeds in the same stage in LoLK that puts the higher tiers of Touhou where they are now. So, the Gensokyo fairies, might in fact be receiving upgrades from this, too, but first things first, I will address the inevitable argument.

Sunny Milk struggled against trying to dodge light!

Sunny Milk doesn't show explicit struggle in keeping up with the light beam. It is likely that her concern is mostly due to blocking a hit from someone as strong as Yukari. Beside, this most likely hold as much water as someone struggling to counter a supernatural gun from a far faster character.

This is also is the most prominent (anti) feat that contradicts MFTL+ scaling for Gensokyo fairies. However, as fairies are still quite simply the fodder of Touhou (even moreso than the Moon Rabbits), if solid Massively FTL+ for fairies isn't legitimate, then I am fine with just a "possibly MFTL+" or "possibly far higher" for the speed of normal fairies.

Consensus

Yay: 10 (Saikou The Lewd King, ALRF, Shadowbokunohero, FateAlbane, Hazerddex, Promestei, Matthew Schroeder, Antvasima, TheJ-ManRequiem, EliminatorVenom)

Nay:

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

For lower tier but still not fodder youkai like Keine, Letty, Tewi and the likes this seems alright.

More iffy with the fairies. I can accept "possibly MFTL+"

 

[ALRF]

^This.

I'm all for this really, considering lower tiers shouldn't have no logical explanation as to why they shouldn't scale to Rei'se

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

i agree with this

 

[FateAlbane]

Huh. I didn't there were non-fodder characters who didn't get the scalling.

This seems fine for me.

Neutral in regards to the fodder, tho.

 

[Hazerddex]

For lower tier but still not fodder youkai like Keine, Letty, Tewi and the likes this seems alright.
More iffy with the fairies. I can accept "possibly MFTL+"

i don't think we can consider tewi fodder after what ZUN said about her in strange creators of outer world.

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It should be obvious that humans and youkai aren't limited to having one ability, but an ability of Tewi that stands out particularly is her ability to grant luck to those she meets. That said, she often stays in the Bamboo Forest of the Lost or Eientei inside of it, so it isn't easy to find her.

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Tewi is an ancient youkai who has lived since long before Gensokyo came into being, but since then she's resided in the Bamboo Forest of the Lost. The fact that the forest keeps people away by befuddling them seems to have something to do with Tewi's power. Not to mention Eirin and Kaguya built Eientei as a hiding place, and Tewi was able to intrude into it by breaking through the spell they put over it, and approach Eirin to make a deal. There's a sense that she's no ordinary rabbit. Tewi herself is the lord of the forest, and the fact that she bears no ill will towards Kaguya and Eirin is because she negotiated a deal to hide them from the humans as long as they shared their wisdom with the rabbits. In the past, she took advantage of others through her glib tongue but gotten her just deserts for that, so she should be good at negotiations, and have become more cautious nowadays."

________end of qoute

however i do think thats a discussion for another thread.

i agree with the upgrade however

 

[Fllflourine]

That makes 5. I'll notify Promestei of this thread.

 

[Promestein]

Yeah, scaling it to the non-fodder youkai seems fine.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Seems fine to me too.

 

[Fllflourine]

As most people seem to agree with scaling all non-fodder youkai to the Massively FTL+ speed, I believe these profiles will remain the way they are right now, or have "possibly MFTL+" instead:

• The lesser Team 9ball Youkai (Rumia, Wriggle Nightbug, while Mystia Lorelei is in Team 9ball, she's superior to Wriggle and I do believe that she should receive MFTL+ scaling instead, as there's little groundings for her to be so low). As well as Che.

• Normal fairies (Any fairy that isn't Clownpiece)

• Both Aki Sisters won't receive speed upgrades because they're pathetic. And the Evil Drago in it's Post Unseal (but not fullpower form).

• Kosuzu Motoori, Hieda no Akyuu, Maribel Hear, and Renko Usami unfortunately won't receive this scaling.

All other 6-Cs will scale to a solid Massively FTL+ rating. From Satori Komeiji to Raiko Horikawa, but if I miss anyone who should not receive a solid MFTL+ rating...

What do you think about the ones who will not receive the MFTL+ scaling? Possibly MFTL+, or leave them where they are?

 

[Magi_Hussie]

Quick question and don't blame me for asking but IIRC, since most or if not all Touhou Project characters can fly when travelling at interstellar distances, ain't that's only flight speed?

 

[Fllflourine]

Reimu and other playables/bosses in LoLK were able to do that while fighting, so it scales to combat speed.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

-We stopped doing "travel speed only" stuff since ages

-They literally fight countless enemies going at opposite direction to them and dodge whole danmakus while flying at those speeds.

 

[Hazerddex]

Quick question and don't blame me for asking but IIRC, since most or if not, all Touhou Project characters can fly when travelling at interstellar distances, ain't that's only flight speed?

hmm i guess since they seem to walk and run at human pace atlest in the mangas when they are walk. i mean why run places when your in a hurry when you can fly?

 

[Fllflourine]

Ok, but what about the speed of the fodder Youkai? Should they have possibly MFTL+ or remain where they currently are.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

Reimu and other playables/bosses in LoLK were able to do that while fighting, so it scales to combat speed.

Their speed should be more clarified b/c it causes confusions & people will assume they are automatically 100% MFTL+ for everything which that should only apply for certain, not all categories of speed.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Except that it scale to all speeds.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

-We stopped doing "travel speed only" stuff since ages

-They literally fight countless enemies going at opposite direction to them and dodge whole danmakus while flying at those speeds.

There's honestly nothing wrong with using it really.

 

[Promestein]

We don't use flight speed anymore because it's a confusing distinction that makes it impossible to tier a lot of verses speedwise.

 

[Hazerddex]

Reimu and other playables/bosses in LoLK were able to do that while fighting, so it scales to combat speed.

Their speed should be more clarified b/c it causes confusions & people will assume they are automatically 100% MFTL+ for everything which that should only apply for certain, not all categories of speed.

i would say for sure this speed applies to combat. they only walk when they are not fighting its not used to travel as much as it is used to fight.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Hazerddex If their movement speeds are quantifiable in Manga, then that should be added too.

 

[Fllflourine]

Ok, can we please stay on topic in regards to upgrading the 6-Cs? Let me repeat myself since people seem to be paying attention more to Magi.

What about the speed of the fodder Youkai? Should they have possibly MFTL+ or remain where they currently are.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Flight Speed / Combat Speed distinction is something that makes little to no sense. If you can fly at 1,000,000c but lack reactions that are even baseline FTL, not only will you never have any idea where you are going, but you are never going to be able to effectively break and halt in the desired location.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I'd be fine with "possibly MFTL+" for really low people given the fact that moon rabbits are seen as cannon fodder on par with the fairies and the Dream World fairies going MFTL+.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

We don't use flight speed anymore because it's a confusing distinction that makes it impossible to tier a lot of verses speedwise.

It shouldn't be really complicated for this verse since their travel feats mostly involve flying anyways. So for now, I suggest their combat speed & reaction speed should be mentioned in their Speed description.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Magi can you like drop it. You're kinda rerailing this based on something that we don't use anymore.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Fllflourine & @Saikou I will after I respond to Matthew about it only once.

@Matthew So its better to mention mainly combat & reaction speed instead now? Well anyways, we have to focus on the main topic now.

 

[Antvasima]

I also think that this seems fine.

 

[Andykhang]

Flight Speed / Combat Speed distinction is something that makes little to no sense. If you can fly at 1,000,000c but lack reactions that are even baseline FTL, not only will you never have any idea where you are going, but you are never going to be able to effectively break and halt in the desired location.

...TBH, that's why these kind of craft have computer, with plotting and automatic stop algorithim.

 

[Fllflourine]

Alright. Is everyone okay with possibly MFTL+ for the characters who are "normal" humans/fodder youkai/fairy/Aki twins?

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

I'm fine with this. Only problem I have is treating Cirno like actual fodder, she has enough showings to prove she's not that useless but that has nothing to do with here.

I agree.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

I'm fine with this.

 

[Fllflourine]

Alright. Shall I make the changes now?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Seems so. No one opposes it.

 

[Fllflourine]

Alright, I will make the changes now.

 

[Fllflourine]

I have completed the revisions, but I would appreciate if someone double checked the revisions to make sure no profiles were overlooked/missed and that there are no disorders in the format (like Tier and Name being in the same line)