Tough (Manga) Complete Revision

[Armorchompy]

I'm gonna be adding all of this btw, forgot to earlier. Tough's been getting a lot of attention lately on the wiki, weirdly enough.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

I'm gonna be adding all of this btw, forgot to earlier. Tough's been getting a lot of attention lately on the wiki, weirdly enough.

Really? Haven't seen much about it though I love. Think it's better than baki and kengan. Also isn't kiryuu just a lighter yujiro? I don't like that kiichi isn't the mc anymore.

 

[Armorchompy]

Mainly on the calc side, I've been asked to eval a couple.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Mainly on the calc side, I've been asked to eval a couple.

Wouldn't the monkey feat be really good?

 

[Armorchompy]

Also isn't kiryuu just a lighter yujiro?

Kinda, yeah. He's a bit less evil, I guess.

I don't like that kiichi isn't the mc anymore.

I think it's fine that he isn't but I don't care for Ryusei much.

Wouldn't the monkey feat be really good?

The one where he dodges a bullet is alright, the one where he "blitzes" Kiichi is probably not usable cause Kiichi is capable of fighting him.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Kinda, yeah. He's a bit less evil, I guess.

I think it's fine that he isn't but I don't care for Ryusei much.

The one where he dodges a bullet is alright, the one where he "blitzes" Kiichi is probably not usable cause Kiichi is capable of fighting him.

He at least refrains from killing his wifes.
Also yeah I'm talking about the one where he dodged the bullet. Seemed pretty close to his face so it might give better results than the other feats. Also do we even have any other feat? Maybe the sniper feat of kiryuu altering the bullet trajectory?

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Kinda, yeah. He's a bit less evil, I guess.

I think it's fine that he isn't but I don't care for Ryusei much.

The one where he dodges a bullet is alright, the one where he "blitzes" Kiichi is probably not usable cause Kiichi is capable of fighting him.

Do you by any chance know if iron kiba slamming kiichi into the stadium is a feat worth looking at?

 

[Armorchompy]

It's not really a feat at all because if you calculate it it probably ends up at something stupid high, but also it doesn't even crack the stadium's floor or is even felt that much by anyone nearby so I wouldn't really use it.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

It's not really a feat at all because if you calculate it it probably ends up at something stupid high, but also it doesn't even crack the stadium's floor or is even felt that much by anyone nearby so I wouldn't really use it.

It did manage to crack a light stadium but you think it would end up as an outlier? Taking the force needed to break the light and extrapolating the force that kiichi was slammed with?

 

[Armorchompy]

It would be an outlier if you calced it that way but it just doesn't make sense to begin with given that Kiichi's immediate surroundings would have been completely obliterated by a shockwave that strong whereas they don't even get scratched. There's also the fact that I don't know how you'd even get the energy to crack glass, or the fact that only one light broke where many should have given that they were all at the same distance more or less

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

It would be an outlier if you calced it that way but it just doesn't make sense to begin with given that Kiichi's immediate surroundings would have been completely obliterated by a shockwave that strong whereas they don't even get scratched. There's also the fact that I don't know how you'd even get the energy to crack glass, or the fact that only one light broke where many should have given that they were all at the same distance more or less

So it is just a nonsensical feat. Thanks for entertaining my question.

 

[MysticCarnage]

I'm going to be honest, it seems everything is an outlier, but if you give time to it, I think we can get the verse to building and hypersonic+, Why do you consider these outliers ?

 

[Armorchompy]

I mean, for the reason you'd consider anything an outlier, characters consistently struggle with bullets, there's literally no legit feats above 9-B and those wall level showings are considered extremely impressive in-verse, stuff higher than that is both extremely questionable and sporadic to the point that even without feats countering them it'd probably be unusable with the exception of the sniper feat (and we don't even know where that lies scaling-wise given that it's not from a translated chapter), verse just ain't that high

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

I mean, for the reason you'd consider anything an outlier, characters consistently struggle with bullets, there's literally no legit feats above 9-B and those wall level showings are considered extremely impressive in-verse, stuff higher than that is both extremely questionable and sporadic to the point that even without feats countering them it'd probably be unusable with the exception of the sniper feat (and we don't even know where that lies scaling-wise given that it's not from a translated chapter), verse just ain't that high

Yeah like in the newest manga kiichi's father was struggling to punch through a wall. It was considered impressive that kiichi did it. I could see the verse going higher in speed but not beyond small building level.

 

[Armorchompy]

Off the top of my head there's also that fight late-ish in Tough where Kiryu and Kiichi are seriously threatened by grenades and rocket launchers

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Off the top of my head there's also that fight late-ish in Tough where Kiryu and Kiichi are seriously threatened by grenades and rocket launchers

On the dam when kiryuu trains kiichi? I did have someone on another site claiming seiko was city level.

 

[MysticCarnage]

Even in anime like Demon Slayer and one piece guns are used and are actual threats so I don't get your point

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

The others at least have supernatural elements. Here it's just some normal real life stuff. And their feats aren't impressive enough to consider the guns as outliers espesially as they use ki to boost their attacks.

 

[Armorchompy]

On the dam when kiryuu trains kiichi?

Yeah

I did have someone on another site claiming seiko was city level.

Yeah that's off the drum that, if you hit it hard enough with one specific attacks, summons a storm. Which is... probably just a weird quasi-mystical inherent property of the drum.

I actually saw someone posting about it on the Tough subreddit, someone posted my blog of calcs and they immediately went on to a rant talking about how VSBW downplays every verse, which was pretty funny

Even in anime like Demon Slayer and one piece guns are used and are actual threats so I don't get your point

I'm going to be honest, I don't really care how other people powerscale other verses that I don't care for at all.

 

[MysticCarnage]

Yeah

Yeah that's off the drum that, if you hit it hard enough with one specific attacks, summons a storm. Which is... probably just a weird quasi-mystical inherent property of the drum.

I actually saw someone posting about it on the Tough subreddit, someone posted my blog of calcs and they immediately went on to a rant talking about how VSBW downplays every verse, which was pretty funny

I'm going to be honest, I don't really care how other people powerscale other verses that I respectively don't care for at all and have no interest in seeing.

Reddit is actually braindead and proves that internet brain rot exists

I once debated with multiple people on whether a Gorrila would survive a supersonic+ kick (They somehow thought a gorilla would tank it)

 

[Armorchompy]

Reddit is actually braindead and proves that internet brain rot exists

I once debated with multiple people on whether a Gorrila would survive a supersonic+ kick (They somehow thought a gorilla would tank it)

nine inch thick skulls gg

 

[MysticCarnage]

nine inch thick skulls gg

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO IM NOT WRONG I SWEAR

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Yeah

Yeah that's off the drum that, if you hit it hard enough with one specific attacks, summons a storm. Which is... probably just a weird quasi-mystical inherent property of the drum.

I actually saw someone posting about it on the Tough subreddit, someone posted my blog of calcs and they immediately went on to a rant talking about how VSBW downplays every verse, which was pretty funny

I'm going to be honest, I don't really care how other people powerscale other verses that I don't care for at all.

Yeah that's the post I'm referring to. So you are also on the sub. I was fighting with the guy there about the drum that just seems like mystical hocus pocus with nothing comparing it to dc.

 

[Armorchompy]

Yeah I thought about voicing my disagreement it but decided it'd be better to not waste my time like that.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Yeah I thought about voicing my disagreement it but decided it'd be better to not waste my time like that.

Eh I tried to but found out it wasn't worth.

 

[Armorchompy]

Alright so Chapters 344 to 353 got translated, slacked out a bit on getting to them but here we go:

• KTT 344: Kiryu is said to have an IQ of over 200, Chosho has a cool showing of his Divine Speed that I wanna add to NA&T
• KTT 345: Vibration Manipulation (Garcia can cause nosebleeds just by kicking near one's face)
• KTT 347: Chosho has another showing of his Turtle Defense, which I previously did not realize was a proper technique and will now be adding to his NA&T, but also it's done to Garcia's 436 m/s punch which allows him to scale directly to that value- the characters already scale exactly 1.44 m/s higher but it's good to have a second feat on this level. Also another showing of his really great mobility.
• KTT 348: Garcia gives an even better showing of Bone Control, twisting 180° to put Chosho in a leg lock, only for Chosho, still technically in the lock and keeping his own lock, to twist around and put himself in the winning position with the Jawbone Leech, a new technique. I love Chosho man. We also get a showing of Chosho being capable of entering a very small box through incredible control of his articulations, calling it his own version of Garcia's Bone Control.
• KTT 349: It's explained that the Jawbone Leech paralyzes the face muscles by damaging the jaw, and can be utilized to easily snap one's neck, which grants Chosho limited Paralysis Inducement, as well as Pressure Points (which quite frankly he has with all his moves given they're all about getting really good leverage and messing people up)... And yet, Garcia counters this without any issue, showing he can turn his neck farther than Chosho can twist it, and putting him in a chokehold. Chosho uses Jaw Dislocation, and manages to escape it himself, then moves away to reset the fight. And then he pulls off another move, a Sonic the Hedgehog-style rolling movement that transitions into a high-momentum tackle.
• KTT 350: Chosho's fighting style adapts to underwater combat really well, and he can stay without oxygen for over 10 minutes.
• KTT 351: It's shown that Garcia's ability to last underwater surpasses Chosho's, and that he can dive 100 meters deep for over 5 minutes, greatly surpassing the IRL world record.
• KTT 352: Chosho takes a devastating blow to the face, causing a skull fracture, yet he is able to block a blow and continue fighting right after, only to receive another deadly kick that ruptures his eardrums, breaks his hipbone, hits off several teeth and causes bleeding from nose, mouth, ears and eyes, and while unable to get up, he still remains conscious, and keeps trying to fight.
• KTT 354: Garcia punches at Kiichi, stopping right before, and still unleashes a shockwave powerful enough to rattle his brain, which is more Vibration Manip evidence.
• KTT 355: Garcia understands easily that Seiko is actually a deadly fighter, which is support for info analysis because most people, even other fighters, cannot realize that.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Yes more stuff! Thank you for updating the verse. It's funny how stuff from a decade old series is still being translated.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Alright so Chapters 344 to 353 got translated, slacked out a bit on getting to them but here we go:

• KTT 344: Kiryu is said to have an IQ of over 200, Chosho has a cool showing of his Divine Speed that I wanna add to NA&T
• KTT 345: Vibration Manipulation (Garcia can cause nosebleeds just by kicking near one's face)
• KTT 347: Chosho has another showing of his Turtle Defense, which I previously did not realize was a proper technique and will now be adding to his NA&T, but also it's done to Garcia's 436 m/s punch which allows him to scale directly to that value- the characters already scale exactly 1.44 m/s higher but it's good to have a second feat on this level. Also another showing of his really great mobility.
• KTT 348: Garcia gives an even better showing of Bone Control, twisting 180° to put Chosho in a leg lock, only for Chosho, still technically in the lock and keeping his own lock, to twist around and put himself in the winning position with the Jawbone Leech, a new technique. I love Chosho man. We also get a showing of Chosho being capable of entering a very small box through incredible control of his articulations, calling it his own version of Garcia's Bone Control.
• KTT 349: It's explained that the Jawbone Leech paralyzes the face muscles by damaging the jaw, and can be utilized to easily snap one's neck, which grants Chosho limited Paralysis Inducement, as well as Pressure Points (which quite frankly he has with all his moves given they're all about getting really good leverage and messing people up)... And yet, Garcia counters this without any issue, showing he can turn his neck farther than Chosho can twist it, and putting him in a chokehold. Chosho uses Jaw Dislocation, and manages to escape it himself, then moves away to reset the fight. And then he pulls off another move, a Sonic the Hedgehog-style rolling movement that transitions into a high-momentum tackle.
• KTT 350: Chosho's fighting style adapts to underwater combat really well, and he can stay without oxygen for over 10 minutes.
• KTT 351: It's shown that Garcia's ability to last underwater surpasses Chosho's, and that he can dive 100 meters deep for over 5 minutes, greatly surpassing the IRL world record.
• KTT 352: Chosho takes a devastating blow to the face, causing a skull fracture, yet he is able to block a blow and continue fighting right after, only to receive another deadly kick that ruptures his eardrums, breaks his hipbone, hits off several teeth and causes bleeding from nose, mouth, ears and eyes, and while unable to get up, he still remains conscious, and keeps trying to fight.
• KTT 354: Garcia punches at Kiichi, stopping right before, and still unleashes a shockwave powerful enough to rattle his brain, which is more Vibration Manip evidence.
• KTT 355: Garcia understands easily that Seiko is actually a deadly fighter, which is support for info analysis because most people, even other fighters, cannot realize that.

This should work

 

[SamanPatou]

Looks simple enough.

 

[Armorchompy]

donezo

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Keep this thread open for future stuff?

 

[Armorchompy]

When the translations resume, I'll comment additions on this thread as I read them, that's faster than making a CRT.

Ye, that's the plan

 

[Armorchompy]

Three quick additions:

• New calc, support
• Kiichi AD addition: Kiichi went from being nearly incapable of moving in a strength training harness (KTT119) to being capable of fighting while wearing it (KTT120) in the span of a few days.
• Iron Kiba (combat-applicable) ESP and Aura: He can sense an approaching opponent's energy to time a defensive strike perfectly (KTT219). This is extremely similar to Seiko (who taught Kiba Nadashin stuff, likely including this technique)'s Evil Swallow Guard, which works by extending one's aura, so presumably that too.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

New calc, support

Oh I had brought this up in the past, but you said it wouldn't make the cut. Glad it's at least indexed.

Kiichi AD addition: Kiichi went from being nearly incapable of moving in a strength training harness (KTT119) to being capable of fighting while wearing it (KTT120) in the span of a few days.

Damn that's nice!

Iron Kiba (combat-applicable) ESP and Aura: He can sense an approaching opponent's energy to time a defensive strike perfectly (KTT219). This is extremely similar to Seiko (who taught Kiba Nadashin stuff, likely including this technique)'s Evil Swallow Guard, which works by extending one's aura, so presumably that too.

Also nice!

Glad you are continuing to work on this!

Still crazy how consistent the mangaka is with his feats.