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Toppo Upgrade

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I also think Jiren at full power will be at least Angel level. Whenever we were first seeing Jiren's power, Belmod foreshadowed it by saying to Marcarita, "no-one can defeat Jiren the Gray". And then he looked directly at her and repeated, "no-one" with emphasis.

And I definitely agree with Toppo's upgrade.
 
Zenkaibattery1 said:
The charge up time is literally 5 seconds at the most. He'll probably get used to it in the next ep
Click to expand...
It's not 5 seconds. After he uses one, he has to wait a little bit before he uses another one. That's why he used regular ki attacks inbetween.
 
Just for the profile, can anyone please link to some statements that Toppo is on GoD level
 
I actually don't think Toppo should get a flat-out Low 2-C key. His destruction energy is clearly limited and I think his normal ki attacks while in his GoD form are still 3-A. Otherwise, 17 shouldn't be able to stand any remote chance. So I think his profile should look like this.

3-A l 3-A. Low 2-C with Destruction Energy.
 
Toppo has void manipulation armor with hakai. Once Goku and Vegeta get over that it will be void manipulation resistance for them. OVO
 
The only feats he has is : - Fighting and harming the new form of Vegeta ( Which would put him at Low 2-C anyways ) - Warping the World of Void with his Hakai energy. - I was only able to see 20 minutes of it... Didn't get direct confirmation he was on GoD level. Maybe it was after those 20 minutes...
 
AppleLord said:
Toppo has void manipulation armor with hakai. Once Goku and Vegeta get over that it will be void manipulation resistance for them. OVO
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Isn't the Hakai Energy considered Existance Erasure?
 
Belomd literally says that Toppo is no different then a God of Destruction right after Toppo transfroms.

Edit: Got ninja'd
 
Dziga said:
AppleLord said:
Toppo has void manipulation armor with hakai. Once Goku and Vegeta get over that it will be void manipulation resistance for them. OVO
Click to expand...
Isn't the Hakai Energy considered Existance Erasure?
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And Soul Destruction. Since it can destroy souls. Plus it was said he is no different from a GoD
 
Should it be noted that Toppo can choose not the have his barrier erase something? He says to Frieza he can easily kill him but doesn't because he would get disqualified.
 
Dziga said:
Existance Erasure destroys the soul by definition so it's not necessary to list.
Click to expand...
It's noted on the Gods of destructions profile so~ And it wasn't considered that when Beerus first used the hakai
 
https://imgur.com/gallery/4h02x

Toppo is stated more than enough times to be on the level of a Good of Destruction, is shown in the preview beginning to beat up Vegeta, he casually defeats Frieza, can easily erase him if he wants to, can easily defeat 17.

Not only Toppo, but any God of Destruction can encase themselves in Energy of Destruction and Hakai = Energy of Destruction. Since no God has demonstrated this technique, it means no God of Destruction has been anything above casual. So Toppo gets Existence Erasure, Void Manipulation, can destroy souls, and Spatial Manipulation for warping basically everything there, Reality Warping for changing the colour of the background, and Creation for making hundreds of stars.
 
Toppo only needs two keys. He doesn't need three. He's clearly shown to be Universe level+ in that he embodies a GoD's power, the Destruction Energy WAS confirmed to be the Hakai, Beerus was worried about his attacks, he curbstomped 17 and Freeza (17 did NOT stand a chance), he broke the stage, and affected infinity (warped the World of Void)

Also, he is visually shown to be stronger than Sidra. He created the same energy with the same ease, and Freeza thought he could withstand it, until he couldn't.

That's very blatantly Low 2-C. So, two keys. Don't downplay.
 
I thought the spatial warping from the Hakai wouldn't be that impressive, but having seen the episode he really did mess up the tournament space. That was a fantastic attack.
 
It needs to be blatantly stated that he affected the entirety of the World of Void and that his powerup was the strongest seen yet.
 
Again, Sidra only gave a tiny portion of his power to one of his minions. It's not a good comparison. I still agree with Low 2-C Toppo though.
 
I don't think he affected the entirety of it. I'm just saying that he has said abilities. He changed the background, Krillin even noted it. "The sky!" We can visually see he warped space, I tried to get that as best as I could in a screenshot, and that's what caused the arena to get destroyed, so it is combat applicable. The Reality Warping isn't, though. As Toppo changed the colour of the sky, you can also see that the sky is now full of stars.
 
@Ryu The power was visually shown to be the same size, though. And Toppo also used a tiny Hakai to destroy Freeza's Supernova.

@Hadou

And I do think that it's reasonable to assume he affected the entirety of it.

His attack was visually shown to be stronger than anything Goku or Jiren have demonstrated up to that point, or even Kefla, who at full power couldn't do that to the World of Void.
 
Shouldn't the other gods of destruction scale to the same feats and ability as toppo? Or at least "possibly" scale?
 
Size of ki blasts means nothing. It's explicitly said to be a small portion of Sidra's power. Toppo likely is as strong or stronger than Sidra at this point. But comparing a tiny bit of Sidra's true power to Toppo isn't a fair comparison.
 
Aeyu said:
Toppo only needs two keys. He doesn't need three. He's clearly shown to be Universe level+ in that he embodies a GoD's power, the Destruction Energy WAS confirmed to be the Hakai, Beerus was worried about his attacks, he curbstomped 17 and Freeza (17 did NOT stand a chance), he broke the stage, and affected infinity (warped the World of Void)
Also, he is visually shown to be stronger than Sidra. He created the same energy with the same ease, and Freeza thought he could withstand it, until he couldn't.

That's very blatantly Low 2-C. So, two keys. Don't downplay.
Click to expand...
He still uses normal ki attacks in that form. Normal ki attacks which 17 can withstand. So he's still not quite like a GoD in that form despite what was stated. True GoD don't use normal ki at all because they don't need to. It's clear that Toppo only used normal ki because he's limited to what he can do with his Destruction energy. And Beerus wasn't worried. He actually said "calm down" to everyone, implying he knew it was going to miss. Breaking the stage is not Low 2-C. Effecting infinity isn't either. It's High 3-A.

There's no proof he's stronger than Sidra. We've never seen Sidra fight seriously and the only Hakai we've seen him use was casual and was given to someone else to erase someone for him.
 
He probably is more powerful than Sidra, but I will say that if Gods of Destruction, noted by Beerus, are all capable of encasing themselves in Energy of Destruction as an aura, then Sidra hasn't shown much power at all. No God of Destruction has until this point.
 
Toppo vs Sidra is derailing the thread


anyway this should scale to the other gods because he was stated no different from the other gods.
 
That's like saying that Beerus isn't Low 2-C because Goku could punch and affect him.

Also, you are heavily downplaying him.

Goku shows the use of "regular ki," looking attacks when in SSJB and higher.

That doesn't mean that he isn't using God Ki. You are making unfounded assumptions.
 
Ryukama said:
Toppo has numerous statements that he is a God of Destruction and that he's comparable to one. Him shooting restrained blasts clearly trying not to kill Frieza and 17 doesn't really change that.
Click to expand...
Yes he's restraining himself, but it was also blatantly stated that his Hakai energy is limited in that he needs time to charge it. The bottom line is, he has a lot of limitations that true GoDs don't have. Sure, he's comparable to a GoD but it doesn't mean he's equal to any of them. Heck, you know how many times it was stated that SSB rivals that of the gods? But we never gave that Low 2-C.
 
Aeyu said:
That doesn't mean that he isn't using God Ki. You are making unfounded assumptions.
Click to expand...
They blatantly said he's using normal ki attacks inbetween the times he uses the Hakai spheres because his Hakai energy is limited in terms of how often he can use it. That was stated. Not an assumption.
 
"Universe level+ (Supreme Kai stated that his power was almost identical to a god's. Belmod said that Toppo was no different from a God of Destruction and had power than belongs only to a God of Destruction. Was also explicitly stated by the narrator that he had become a God of Destruction. His energy warped and changed the color of the World of Void, a dimension of infinite size.)"

IMO this should be good for a second key.
 
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