• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Topaz's Indie Stats Equal Tournament: Round 12: Anna (EBF) vs Apocalypse Bird

After looking at both profiles, I think Anna has more wincons than Apocalypse Bird with these being the most likely for her to use:

Sealing (Can trap foes inside boxes with the Capture Foe tactic)
Additional Plant Manipulation and Poison Manipulation (Via Leaf Blade and Razor Leaf, which deal bio elemental damage to its targets)
Air Manipulation (Via Gale and Tempest, which deal wind elemental damage to its targets) (Various summons can deal wind elemental damage to targets)
Water Manipulation (Via Bubble Ring, Bubble, Whirlpool, and Bubble Blast, which deals water elemental damage to its targets)
Ice Manipulation (Via Snow Bunnies and Snow Cats, both of which deal ice elemental damage to its targets and inflict the Chill status, which increases the damage taken from ice and water attacks by 50% and reduces the damage taken from bio attacks by 50%)
Earth Manipulation (Via Log, Lumber, and Mighty Oak, which deal earth elemental damage to its targets)(Various summons can deal earth elemental damage to targets. The Rock Sprite is capable of changing the weather to Earthquake, which has a chance to inflict the Stagger status on everyone which makes the next hit they receive critical)
Death Manipulation (Has a chance to instantly kill foes with Annihilate and Tsunami)
Ice Manipulation, Absolute Zero, and Statistics Reduction (Via Absolute Zero, which deals ice elemental damage to its targets, reduce their evade, and inflict the Freeze status on them)
 
Alright, so, let me come up with a quick counter

First of all, how would she know to use these specifically. Info Analysis doesnt work on Apoc Bird and its eggs (im just lumping the eggs in as anomalous)- and we have seen this with the Glitch/Boss Glitch. Scan doesnt tell you how to hit them, you gotta figure it out (or look up a guide, i dont blame you)

Death Manip wont work. Apoc Bird is considered a "boss" in terms of L Corp, and Annihilate just doesnt work on boss enemies. Not to mention, Small Beak and Big Eyes resist Death Manip, while Long Arms would outright HEAL from it

And going off the fact Apoc Bird would be a boss, you canr really freeze them either. Anna isnt just gonna look at this thing and consider it a common foe-

Sealing can be escaped by regular EBF enemies. You would need to bog them down first, and considering Apoc Bird is just straight immune to damage unless its eggs are busted- nope

Anyways

Looking over Anna's page, she lacks resistance to Possession, which only lures foes towards Apoc Bird, but thats the issue. Apoc Bird wants Anna away from its eggs- and it would also be perfect for trapping her in melee range as well. Consider the fact that its fist and beam attacks to BLACK damage as well- Anna doesnt resist those as well

Not to mention that if Anna tries attacking its eggs, its going to know, and its going to teleport right over to her. It has Big Bird's Hundred of Kilometer visual range.

(small note, are we going to composite all of her weapons/armors into one, or do we base it off of EBF where she can swap them out as she needs them)
 
MysticBrawler said:
After looking at both profiles, I think Anna has more wincons than Apocalypse Bird with these being the most likely for her to use:

Sealing (Can trap foes inside boxes with the Capture Foe tactic)
Additional Plant Manipulation and Poison Manipulation (Via Leaf Blade and Razor Leaf, which deal bio elemental damage to its targets)
Air Manipulation (Via Gale and Tempest, which deal wind elemental damage to its targets) (Various summons can deal wind elemental damage to targets)
Water Manipulation (Via Bubble Ring, Bubble, Whirlpool, and Bubble Blast, which deals water elemental damage to its targets)
Ice Manipulation (Via Snow Bunnies and Snow Cats, both of which deal ice elemental damage to its targets and inflict the Chill status, which increases the damage taken from ice and water attacks by 50% and reduces the damage taken from bio attacks by 50%)
Earth Manipulation (Via Log, Lumber, and Mighty Oak, which deal earth elemental damage to its targets)(Various summons can deal earth elemental damage to targets. The Rock Sprite is capable of changing the weather to Earthquake, which has a chance to inflict the Stagger status on everyone which makes the next hit they receive critical)
Death Manipulation (Has a chance to instantly kill foes with Annihilate and Tsunami)
Ice Manipulation, Absolute Zero, and Statistics Reduction (Via Absolute Zero, which deals ice elemental damage to its targets, reduce their evade, and inflict the Freeze status on them)
Click to expand...
You mean to tell me you actually went over Apoc bird's profile and you still thought Death Manip was a valid wincon for Anna?
 
Last edited:
alright so,
is there anything anna has that actually lets her survive apoc bird long enough to put it down?
also, is breaking the eggs absolutely necessary to kill apoc bird or does it just make it easier? like, can apoc bird die if its main body is cut into ribbons?
 
When you encounter it in L Corp, yes, you must break the eggs to end the fight. Breaking eggs does make it easier, as each one is tied to a certain attack (Big Eyes for example lets Apoc Bird use Possession and Energy Projection)
 
Polandballczechball said:
You mean to tell me you actually went over Apoc bird's profile and you still thought Death Manip was a valid wincon for Anna?
Click to expand...
Aside from one of the eggs being able to absorb PALE damage, Apocalypse Bird doesn't have Resistance to PALE damage listed in it's profile, and when I checked the Abnormality Physiology page it turns out they don't have this as a general resistance either. Only Ordeals are listed as having resistance to all Damage Types while Distortions and Abnormalities only have resistance to WHITE damage.
 
Well, the thing is with Apoc Bird is that you need to kill its eggs in order to actually beat it- and i highly doubt its just game mechanics when the same eggs show up in Library of Ruina's Abno pages and apply tangible bonuses to the ones using them

And Apoc Bird's Managerial Tip 4 (yes, there are those for Apoc Bird) literally states
  • "As long as they exist, the Apocalypse Bird will not disappear."

    So Anna would need to actually kill all the eggs first. Apoc Bird's VSBW just doesnt really have it listed.

    (Apoc Bird's ingame resists are literally all 0.0. Do you want me to link Apoc Bird's wiki page in the L Corp wiki to confirm?)​
 
Topaz404 said:
Alright, so, let me come up with a quick counter

First of all, how would she know to use these specifically. Info Analysis doesnt work on Apoc Bird and its eggs (im just lumping the eggs in as anomalous)- and we have seen this with the Glitch/Boss Glitch. Scan doesnt tell you how to hit them, you gotta figure it out (or look up a guide, i dont blame you)

Death Manip wont work. Apoc Bird is considered a "boss" in terms of L Corp, and Annihilate just doesnt work on boss enemies. Not to mention, Small Beak and Big Eyes resist Death Manip, while Long Arms would outright HEAL from it

And going off the fact Apoc Bird would be a boss, you canr really freeze them either. Anna isnt just gonna look at this thing and consider it a common foe-

Sealing can be escaped by regular EBF enemies. You would need to bog them down first, and considering Apoc Bird is just straight immune to damage unless its eggs are busted- nope

Anyways

Looking over Anna's page, she lacks resistance to Possession, which only lures foes towards Apoc Bird, but thats the issue. Apoc Bird wants Anna away from its eggs- and it would also be perfect for trapping her in melee range as well. Consider the fact that its fist and beam attacks to BLACK damage as well- Anna doesnt resist those as well

Not to mention that if Anna tries attacking its eggs, its going to know, and its going to teleport right over to her. It has Big Bird's Hundred of Kilometer visual range.

(small note, are we going to composite all of her weapons/armors into one, or do we base it off of EBF where she can swap them out as she needs them)
Click to expand...
The abilities I listed are what are the same ones she has in her EBF4 key, so I figured they would be a part of her standard moveset.

I thought that was just EBF's game mechanics. Neither Punishing Bird nor Big Bird have resistence to PALE damage listed in their profiles so I fail to see how that could be the case.

Again wouldn't that just be a part of Epic Battle Fantasy's game mechanics?

Well Anna does have plenty of Status Effect inducing abilities, so it could still work as a wincon.

What about this? Resistance to Mind Manipulation (Has gear that grants resistance and even immunity to the Confuse status, which forces those with it to use random moves uncontrollably for a certain amount of turns)
 
Last edited:
I mean with the Sealing part, whats stopping Apoc Bird from just getting out of the way from the box before it lands on it?

And still, Anna would be encouraged to destroy the eggs, because if she does, Apoc Bird's options become limited

Anyways, with Possession.....i think that is a byproduct of Mind Manip, sure, but the thing is.....Anna only has prior knowledge that the eggs keep it alive, and that busting them will make her life easier. She's gonna have no idea what the main beast can do (and she cant just Scan the thing either), so while, yes, she does have gear that can resist....well. I dont think Confusion equals Possession. Confusion just means Anna uses whatever randomly, while Possession is "Walk towards the scary monster so you can die easier. She also has nothing against WHITE damage's Morality Manip and Madness Manip to make Anna either go batshit insane, or try to attack her allies (i mean yeah she probably wont have much to attack but Mighty Oak but that would still count under incap rules)

Also while Apoc Bird has no WHITE damage options, its covered by BLACK damage, which is basically RED and WHITE damage combined (it degrades both physical and mental fortitude, and it has Resistance Negation as well to help
 
Last edited:
Topaz404 said:
I mean with the Sealing part, whats stopping Apoc Bird from just getting out of the way from the box before it lands on it?

And still, Anna would be encouraged to destroy the eggs, because if she does, Apoc Bird's options become limited

Anyways, with Possession.....i think that is a byproduct of Mind Manip, sure, but the thing is.....Anna only has prior knowledge that the eggs keep it alive, and that busting them will make her life easier. She's gonna have no idea what the main beast can do (and she cant just Scan the thing either), so while, yes, she does have gear that can resist....well. I dont think Confusion equals Possession. Confusion just means Anna uses whatever randomly, while Possession is "Walk towards the scary monster so you can die easier. She also has nothing against WHITE damage's Morality Manip and Madness Manip to make Anna either go batshit insane, or try to attack her allies (i mean yeah she probably wont have much to attack but Mighty Oak but that would still count under incap rules)

Also while Apoc Bird has no WHITE damage options, its covered by BLACK damage, which is basically RED and WHITE damage combined (it degrades both physical and mental fortitude, and it has Resistance Negation as well to help
Click to expand...
So about the Possession, how close would Anna be to Apocalypse Bird before it wears off?
 
Uhhhh, depends. Also, once Possessed, as the Manager in the game, there is nothing you can do to free them from the effect until they get close enough to the Bird, your just stuck walking towards it until it ends

Besides
Doesnt the Stat Amps of Evasion in such in EBF fade away over time?
 
Topaz404 said:
Uhhhh, depends. Also, once Possessed, as the Manager in the game, there is nothing you can do to free them from the effect until they get close enough to the Bird, your just stuck walking towards it until it ends

Besides
Doesnt the Stat Amps of Evasion in such in EBF fade away over time?
Click to expand...
Yeah, what I'm saying is as soon as the Possession would wear off Anna could apply it to dodge out of the way.

Yeah it does, but that doesn't change the fact that 1)While it's in effect Anna would be free to try out her abilities to see what works, and 2) There's nothing stopping her from just reapplying it.
 
Also i dont know if you responded to this but uh
Are we compositing all of Anna's bows and armors and whatnot into one, or would it all be separate and she would have to figure out the correct suit to put on to resist effects?
 
Topaz404 said:
Also i dont know if you responded to this but uh
Are we compositing all of Anna's bows and armors and whatnot into one, or would it all be separate and she would have to figure out the correct suit to put on to resist effects?
Click to expand...
Aside from the ones that grant resistance to Mind Manipulation, the most relevant equipment are these: Resistance to
Paralysis Inducement and Time Manipulation (Has gear that grants resistance and even immunity to the Stun status, which includes the effects of the Slow Down ability which is capable of slowing down and even completely stopping the personal time of targets)
Death Manipulation (Has gear that grants resistance and even immunity to the Doom and Instant Death statuses)
Empathic Manipulation (Has gear that grants resistance and even immunity to the Berserk status)

The rest of her equipment aren't really useful here, so whether I prefer the former or the latter depend s on how helpful you think these are.
 
I’m just gonna say this before I head to sleep for the night- but I don’t see much of a resistance to BLACK damage. Not only does it corrode the body and mind- it also reduces resistances as well.

Considering a decent majority of Apoc Birds attacks are BLACK damage based, a few good hits would seal doom for Anna. Nothing stops it from Possessing her and then just getting a free hit in with its claws (which do black), or using its energy projection to send beams her way

But yeah. More details tomorrow and hopefully we can reach a vote
 
Topaz404 said:
I’m just gonna say this before I head to sleep for the night- but I don’t see much of a resistance to BLACK damage. Not only does it corrode the body and mind- it also reduces resistances as well.

Considering a decent majority of Apoc Birds attacks are BLACK damage based, a few good hits would seal doom for Anna. Nothing stops it from Possessing her and then just getting a free hit in with its claws (which do black), or using its energy projection to send beams her way

But yeah. More details tomorrow and hopefully we can reach a vote
Click to expand...
Yeah, aside from just dodging the attack Anna has nothing for WHITE and BLACK damage that much is certain. With that said, aside from boosting her evasion she can also inflict the Tired(Status) using her earth elemental abilities which would reduce s ones Accuracy and Evasion overtime.
 
I mean Apoc Bird doesnt really move all that much, rather it prefers to teleport around if it wants to go long distances. Only thing Tireds gonna do is kill A. Bird's accuracy, but given how most of its attacks are AoE, i dont know how much its gonna do

Not to mention, Anna has a pretty short window after getting lured over to do much. A. Bird can just slam its first down (granted, it has one hell of a windup, but that can just be done while Anna gets close), shoot her point blank with the beam attack, or use Punishing Bird's attack (does RED damage)

But yeah. Anna's gameplan is basically playing keep away with the bird as much as possible, while bogging it down and trying to figure out some way kill the thing while A. Bird wants to both defend its eggs, and get close enough to where it can just kill her. Granted, Teleportation may make it easier for A. Bird to close any distance gaps
 
Topaz404 said:
I mean Apoc Bird doesnt really move all that much, rather it prefers to teleport around if it wants to go long distances. Only thing Tireds gonna do is kill A. Bird's accuracy, but given how most of its attacks are AoE, i dont know how much its gonna do

Not to mention, Anna has a pretty short window after getting lured over to do much. A. Bird can just slam its first down (granted, it has one hell of a windup, but that can just be done while Anna gets close), shoot her point blank with the beam attack, or use Punishing Bird's attack (does RED damage)

But yeah. Anna's gameplan is basically playing keep away with the bird as much as possible, while bogging it down and trying to figure out some way kill the thing while A. Bird wants to both defend its eggs, and get close enough to where it can just kill her. Granted, Teleportation may make it easier for A. Bird to close any distance gaps
Click to expand...
His melee attacks cause a shockwave?

Actually using RED damage here is a bad idea since Anna has plenty counters for it. Those being Statistics Amplification, Statistics Reduction, Damage Reduction, Healing/Regeneration, not to mention she can be completely immune to it via the Invisibility(Status).

Yeah pretty much, plus she has prior knowledge regarding the eggs so she would know to go for them.
 
Yeah its melee swings shake the facility.

And fair enough with the RED damage, but generally

Apoc Bird is going to be very defensive with the eggs. As soon as Anna starts to attack one, its going to teleport over to her and slap her silly, and the eggs are most likely going to spawn in an open area around the field, so it WILL know with its viewing range. Not to mention it can possess and lure her away from the eggs and into smashing range as well

Do ya think we should leave this to the others to vote on this?
 
Topaz404 said:
Yeah its melee swings shake the facility.

And fair enough with the RED damage, but generally

Apoc Bird is going to be very defensive with the eggs. As soon as Anna starts to attack one, its going to teleport over to her and slap her silly, and the eggs are most likely going to spawn in an open area around the field, so it WILL know with its viewing range. Not to mention it can possess and lure her away from the eggs and into smashing range as well

Do ya think we should leave this to the others to vote on this?
Click to expand...
Yeah, sure. I don't have anymore arguments to make , and I think this could go either way.
 
Alright, yeah. This is now open for others to chime in and vote on who moves on
Guess ill post on the main thread
 
Reason being Apoc Bird's teleportation is a question Anna imo has zero actual answers to, given the following that you mentioned(the moment an egg is breathed on its teleporting over to the egg and vibechecking her)
 
I mean yeah Apoc Bird's going to have the entire area on visual lockdown with Big Bird's eyes. Assuming an egg doesnt spawn in a building, but Greenwood is more open anyways. They will more then likely appear somewhere open (and it would also be fair to Anna too)

I am assuming Apoc Bird knows that its eggs being busted means certain doom anyways
 
Well, two for Apoc Bird. Ill let it run for a bit longer as the night goes on, then tally next afternoon- and rounds 13 and 14 can be done
 
Today is ze last day for voting for this. It appears Apoc Bird may be moving on, but lets not get hasty here
 
I mean yeah, but i do wish to give a little more time for votes. But if it does continue on like for this some time ill just move on
 
Alright, yeah, this isnt gonna go anywhere. This is now closed, Apoc Bird has moved on to the next set!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Topaz404
Topaz's Indie Stats Tournament: SEMIFINALS PT2: The Knight (Hollow Knight) vs Apocalypse Bird
Replies
19
Views
596
Arceus0x
Arceus0x
Topaz404
Topaz's Indie Stats Equal Tournament Round 7: Flumpty Bumpty vs Anna (EBF5) (0-0-0)
Replies
4
Views
364
MysticBrawler
Topaz404
Topaz'z Indie Stats Equal Tournament: Round 8- Apocalypse Bird vs Teseo (0-0-0)
Replies
18
Views
511
Topaz404
Topaz404
Topaz404
Topaz's Indie Stats Equal Tournament: Round 10- Binah vs Mag Agent Gestalt
2 3
Replies
85
Views
2K
Employe
Employe
Topaz404
Topaz's Indie Stats Equal Tournament: Round 5! Animdude vs Frisk (0-0-0)
2 3
Replies
89
Views
2K
Topaz404
Topaz404
Back
Top