-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Topaz's Indie Stats Equal Tournament: Round 10- Binah vs Mag Agent Gestalt
- Thread starter Topaz404
- Start date
- 8,421
- 2,948
Hank inconspicuously just was able to negate all of Tricky's immortality from getting blessed be the auditor, so, they kinda needed to pull some strings to get him to die. atleast gestalt had something already established kill him
Gestalt is physically invulnerable.
- 2,240
- 564
- Thread starter
- #43
So uh
Turns out
Physical Invulnerability is in the Very High section of the Hax Tiers. The cap......is High
The Hax Tiers Page
Well
This fight's reopened
Turns out
Physical Invulnerability is in the Very High section of the Hax Tiers. The cap......is High
The Hax Tiers Page
Well
This fight's reopened
- 8,421
- 2,948
it's crazy, i opened that up and somehow completely missed 'invulnerability' there. i'm so cooked i sold.
- 2,240
- 564
- Thread starter
- #45
I dont even know what the hell even made me think to check the page. Probably just being sure it was going with the rules but uh.....
Nope
Gestalt's main gimmick is just restricted
I love how this turns from Gestalt/Phobos wearing Binah down to just Binah fvcking rolling over Gestalt like its nothing. Damn
(oh yeah i forgot Power Null was also in Very High i didnt see that either
Nope
Gestalt's main gimmick is just restricted
I love how this turns from Gestalt/Phobos wearing Binah down to just Binah fvcking rolling over Gestalt like its nothing. Damn
(oh yeah i forgot Power Null was also in Very High i didnt see that either
- 8,421
- 2,948
If gestalt's main gimick is restricted, then basically it's the same thing as above, but Binah has actualy options to harm Gestalt.
Gestalt can still become too durable to be conventionally harmed though, since his durability gets stronger passively. would take a few minutes though. he also still outskills binah in combat since he has the knowledge of thousands of soldiers + Director Phobos' skill from above.
Phobos might come out sooner, which as above all of his arguments are the same since he isn't effected by anything from above.
- 8,421
- 2,948
if Gestalt dies, the gateway closes and Phobos gets self-BFR'd.
the issue with that is Binah needs to kill Gestalt within the first like, 20 minutes (which is high-balling it, honestly) of the fight before he becomes too durable to harm and we have the same problem as above when his invulnerability wasn't restricted.
- 2,240
- 564
- Thread starter
- #49
Alright, i checked SBA just to be sure, but Binah outranges by a good enough margin that it may give her the win (Hundred of Meters to Kilometers, Hundreds of Kilometers in visual range with Big Birds eyes) compared to Tens of Meters for both Gestalt and Phobos. Unless you put them both in basically melee range, Binah's just gonna have free reign to snipe the thing with Pillar
Yeah Gestalt's getting outranged and sniped
Yeah Gestalt's getting outranged and sniped
- 900
- 442
hey just to be sure can i change the key to End of The Cycle?
: trolle :
actually just saw that gestalt's entire thing isn't allowed
huh
- 8,421
- 2,948
do... they do that in character? looking through other matches it doesn't seem like Binah would range spam and instantly go for the kill. unless you bloodlust Binah it seems like they'd get closer to Gestalt.
- 2,240
- 564
- Thread starter
- #53
Binah does not fvck around in the Librarian key anymore after the incident with Kali. If she properly views you as a threat she will try and end things quickly. The only reason why she lost to Kali is because she underestimated her. The Weaknesses bit does mention that this is moot now
- 358
- 270
This thread went from incon to in favor of Gestalt to in favor of Binah so quickly
- 2,240
- 564
- Thread starter
- #55
Oh yeah please help confirm would it be in line for Binah to see Gestalt as enough for a threat to just go for the kill and range spam?
- 358
- 270
Yeah most definitely. Librarian key + the shit Gestalt can do will just make Binah end the fight quickly
- 8,421
- 2,948
You can't say she would instantly go for the kill, and list a notable example of Binah doing the exact opposite of that.
- 8,421
- 2,948
Binah at that range won't even know what Gestalt can do, she literally can only base it off his appearance unless she's given prior knowledge on gestalt.
- 2,240
- 564
- Thread starter
- #59
No i mentioned that because i wanted to point out BECAUSE of that incident Binah would absolutely learn from her mistakes. Thats.....basic knowledge
- 2,240
- 564
- Thread starter
- #60
I dunno, big lumbering humanoid thing charging me with the intent to kill would trigger fight or flight responses in me
- 8,421
- 2,948
Was this ever actually stated that she began to stop underestimating her opponents, or, is this just an assumption?
you are also not Binah, who apparently has a history of underestimating people.
- 2,240
- 564
- Thread starter
- #62
The reason why Binah was underestimating everyone before Kali because she, as an Arbiter, are one of the most powerful beings in the City- second only to the head, and way above everything else. Why would she think some random Color Fixer (still strong, but nothing compared to an Arbiter) would cause her issues, considering shes steamrolled everything before facing Kali
if you start getting a god complex (or superiority complex in this case), your eventually gonna get brought back down to zero.
Didnt Phobos eventually end up losing because he thought he was the hottest person around?
- 358
- 270
Yeah this basically summarizes it
- 8,421
- 2,948
Ok... but, still, that doesn't exactly answer my question. was it ever like, shown or stated that Binah stopped doing that?
Using Phobos as an example isn't the best, since when he died he kept the god-complex, and arguably it got even worse after his death. the first thing he says when he first appears is literally;
he doubled down on his god-complex, and it got worse after his death. And, it was a common fact among all of nevada that it wasn't that Phobos thought he was, it was the fact that he actually was the most powerful man alive at the time. Jesus only killed him because he took the halo and used it to even the odds against him, (as he was completely powerless against Phobos without it) but even then jesus apparently described the fight as legendary, so Phobos still was that much more powerful than anyone else in the verse where taking the same thing that made Tricky the Clown a god, only slightly evened the odds against phobos.
and, despite his god-complex, Phobos doesn't actually hold back or underestimate his opponents due to it, he'll go instantly for the kill and do any means to kill them, as shown with his fight with jesus.
- 2,240
- 564
- Thread starter
- #65
Hey you mind helping me find/send proof of when Binah stopped underestimating her foes after the Kali incident or should i start digging through some dialogue?
- 8,421
- 2,948
Even if you do find scans of them not underestimating their opponent, have they actually ever range spammed to kill someone in character? i feel it's a bit of a jump even if they stopped underestimating their opponents to say that means they'll range spam anyone.
if you find scans of Binah specifically stopping the whole underestimating thing, plus them actually range spamming in character in that range, i'll concede. otherwise, pretty sure Gestalt still evolves past Binah's AP, naturally doesn't get effected by most of her hax that could kill him, and eventually kills Binah once she runs out of options to get rid of Gestalt.
also it should be noted that gestalt has been shown capable of dodging attacks and such, so even then, he might just dodge until he evolves past her AP and stonewall her anyways
- 358
- 270
Oh yeah I prolly should have specified that Binah's definitely gonna observe Gestalt for a good bit before deciding if she should just go all out or not.
Aaand you know which option she'll take once she gets an answer.
Aaand you know which option she'll take once she gets an answer.
- 2,240
- 564
- Thread starter
- #68
That may take a while. Both L Corp and Library of Ruina are two incredibly story rich games
As for your second question, a lot of Binah's attacks can still be considered ranged anyways, and during her core suppression in L Corp she's most often seen using Key/Pillar and Fairy as her main attacks to weaken/outright kill employees while breaching Abnos left and right- so yeah i say it would be enough to warrant range spam if she constantly does it in her boss fight (which is indeed canon)
But uh, brb, ive got a lot of reading to do.
As for your second question, a lot of Binah's attacks can still be considered ranged anyways, and during her core suppression in L Corp she's most often seen using Key/Pillar and Fairy as her main attacks to weaken/outright kill employees while breaching Abnos left and right- so yeah i say it would be enough to warrant range spam if she constantly does it in her boss fight (which is indeed canon)
But uh, brb, ive got a lot of reading to do.
- 2,240
- 564
- Thread starter
- #69
Also yeah this
- 8,421
- 2,948
how long is 'a good bit' because if she takes any longer than a minute im pretty sure she's shooting herself in the foot.
- 900
- 442
what even is lobotomy corp
everything i hear about it just makes it more confusing
isn't it supposed to be scp fallout shelter?
- 2,240
- 564
- Thread starter
- #72
Oh you poor poor thing.
Go buy the game. Then you will know everything
- 8,421
- 2,948
true. honestly had some good fun with it when i played it even if it was difficult. (not usually my type of management game)
would recommend to anyone who wants a challenging management type game.
- 2,240
- 564
- Thread starter
- #74
Anyways, yeah. Binah at a glance should be able to sus out how much of a threat Gestalt is based on- the fact that its a large ass human looking thing with most of it being made of metal lumbering towards her at speeds that shouldnt be possible for something of its size. She's going to register it as enough of a threat to at least throw a Pillar attack its way
Sure. She may not go full committed mode, but a Pillar attack is powerful enough to stop attacks more powerful then it- even Kali's most committed swings with Mimicry
Sure. She may not go full committed mode, but a Pillar attack is powerful enough to stop attacks more powerful then it- even Kali's most committed swings with Mimicry
- 8,421
- 2,948
Gestalt is capable of dodging even at it's larger sizes, so it definitely could just avoid attacks that she throws at it from a distance.
If Binah has to play defensive on Gestalt to keep it from easily injuring her and play keep away, while he's dodging her attempts to throw projectiles at him, he's just going to use that time to evolve since Phobos would 100% take advantage of that and let Gestalt get too powerful to be put down by Binah if he can't get close enough.
- 8,421
- 2,948
Honestly, Binah's best option here is to get close to Gestalt and do as much damage to Gestalt as she can before he gets too durable to be harmed, and hope to god she can use any method to kill gestalt while Phobos is also going out at her.
problem is, if she takes time to examine Gestalt, play defensive/range spam him, he's just going to evolve past that point Binah would have.
problem is, if she takes time to examine Gestalt, play defensive/range spam him, he's just going to evolve past that point Binah would have.
- 2,240
- 564
- Thread starter
- #77
I mean, there is also the possibility that Binah does let Gestalt get close, lull Phobos into some false sense of security, and then just bust out everything she has right there and then. Shes got Twilight and Apocalypse to help out with that- and if Gestalt does get injured, Apoc Bird's fist is just going to hit even harder
Hell. I can even see her taking a few hits while Gestalt is in its weaker stages to proc Punishment, use Peace to help out with that, Judgement (for at least a little bit of extra hurt, but ya never know), and maybe even Big Eyes will find some use here
(im not going over passives. good god that would take forever. but generally Binah would just take whatever times shes granted to boost herself as much as possible then nuke Gestalt- as Binah from what i remember prefers to end fights sooner- as she just generally prefers the silence and her old sadism's mellowed out during the in between of L Corp and Library of Ruina)
Hell. I can even see her taking a few hits while Gestalt is in its weaker stages to proc Punishment, use Peace to help out with that, Judgement (for at least a little bit of extra hurt, but ya never know), and maybe even Big Eyes will find some use here
(im not going over passives. good god that would take forever. but generally Binah would just take whatever times shes granted to boost herself as much as possible then nuke Gestalt- as Binah from what i remember prefers to end fights sooner- as she just generally prefers the silence and her old sadism's mellowed out during the in between of L Corp and Library of Ruina)
- 8,421
- 2,948
Phobos wouldn't be put in a false sense of security? There isn't a world in this multiverse where Binah lets Gestalt get close and that makes Phobos get a false sense of security. he literally lives in a world of death, violence, and war and nothing else. he'll just fight her as usual and outskill Binah in CQC.
- 2,240
- 564
- Thread starter
- #79
Fair enough. Still though, Binah's going to try and stat amp herself to the point where she can tear through Gestalt as soon as she can, not to mention the support Apoc Bird would provide as well. Gestalt's gonna get hurt quite a bit when Binah unleashes everything once CQC happens, and Apoc Bird's fists do more damage if a target is already hurt
Sure. Phobos could just project himself while Apoc Bird and Gestalt are fighting (kaiju fight! woo!), but then Binah has more of a valid target to use Chain (which, even after being broken out of would still slow down Phobos), and if Phobos just gets nuked (somehow), then all the attentions gonna be back on Gestalt
- 8,421
- 2,948
This argument only works if while the attention is off Gestalt he isn't still amping. the time that's wasted trying to get rid of Phobos (which isn't happening very quickly lmao, he outskills Binah to hell and back with the skill feats that were given here, can generate forcefields, and summon minions from the other place to overwhelm the two, and has attacks that can hit people with instinctive reaction), Gestalt doesn't stop amping. he'll just get more and more durable during that time, and if they do end up temporarily getting rid of Phobos, by the time they get back to trying to kill Phobos he'll already be too damn durable to hurt anymore, meaning Phobos either will keep coming back to kill Binah, or, he begins controlling Gestalt again and kills them with Gestalt instead.
Similar threads
