Top 5 Most Skilled Characters For Every Tier 5

[Creaturemaster971]

Also since not much else is happening I'm gonna reiterate that we need to discuss how we're gonna organize Batman, SCP-076, Eternal Warrior, and John Carter

e.g. whether we're prioritizing experience, statements, feats, scaling, that sort of thing

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Experience should count, but if it's contradicted it should be discarded.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Depending on our main focus...

Experience: SCP-076 > Eternal Warrior >= John Carter > Batman

Scaling: John Carter > Batman > SCP-076 > Eternal Warrior (I think)

Feats: SCP-076 > John Carter > Batman > Eternal Warrior

Statements: SCP-076 > Eternal Warrior > Batman > John Carter

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Pretty sure in scaling and feats Batman is at the top.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

What is Batman's scaling chain, because John Carter's is ridiculous

 

[Yobo_Blue]

What is it?

 

[Creaturemaster971]

And I guarantee, based on what Weekly has told me in the past, that none of them come remotely close to matching SCP-076's feats

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Well, do you have a link to what he's told you?

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Can't remember where it is, but I can ask him.

And what I mean by scaling chains is, for example:

The most skilled of normal humanity < Red Martian Soldiers << Green Martians < Kantos Khan < White Apes and Plantmen < Therns << Black Martians < Prince Xodar << Carthoris << Mid-series John Carter = Tars Tarkas << Solan = End of Series John Carter

 

[Yobo_Blue]

What exactly constitutes the most skilled of normal humanity?

 

[Creaturemaster971]

It just states that due to the nature of Martian society and environment, even the most normal Red Martian soldier has seen far more combat and gained greater skill than any human would in their lifetime

 

[Yobo_Blue]

For Batman it's hard to put a exact number on it, but he's more skilled than Bane, who is equal to Ra's Al Ghul and comparable to his father, who was considered the most dangerous man in the world for a time. Ra's Al Ghul is the Leader of the League of assassins and has been honing his and their assassin techniques and combat skills for centuries. Ra's Al Ghul is around. Batman is also above pretty much all the Robin's in skill, casually beating at least one of them using nothing but Indian martial arts and no other techniques. As such, he's also above Nightwing who has learned all martial arts and is a master combatant with enough skill to catch a running Flash (Wally West) (Post-Crisis) and who is in turn above Damian Wayne and Tim Drake. Tim Drake also beat Bane's dad back when he was a Robin and casually defeats people on the level of Green Arrow (Post-Crisis)'s skill and Jason Todd. Damian is also above Jason Todd and can do stuff like casually hitting multiple bullseye's with a arrow while blindfolded and was trained from practically his moment of birth by the League of Assassins whom he far surpasses. Jason Todd himself is no pushover and can do stuff like beat Man-Bats who have trained under Lady Shiva (another super skilled martial artists) and defeat Deathstroke (Post-Crisis) while both were injured (although that's still a huge skill feat for Jason, since Deathstroke is generally considered to be too strong AP wise for anyone in the Bat-family to hurt under normal circumstances), among the usual casually skill stomping master martial artists and combatants. Green Arrow himself has a huge list of feats and is more skilled than Deadshot, Master mercenary yada yada yada, who's also equal to Deathstroke in skill, who when young and inexperienced could easily kill 38 soldiers in two minutes, defeat many comparable armored soldiers while losing his powers and massively weakened, and has massive amounts of experience in his own right, and was a veteran soldier as well. Cassandra Cain is also somewhere in here, and without her Precognition she's easily beaten by Batman, and she can easily do stuff like stop her own heart (insert Ikki meme here) and was trained from birth to know nothing but violence to the point where she had achieved a level where high level master combat and violence itself was as basic and instinctive as making noises with your mouth. This is the sort of training she went through.

Admittedly, the scaling has a bit of fluidity due to standard DC inconsistency, but that's the best way to summarize it in general.

Additionally, it should probably be Characters from DC Comics. I can elaborate if you want.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

I didn't think it would be that big of a wall of text

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Admirable

Hold on, gimme some time to look over that

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Wait, I thought that Cassandra and Shiva were both usually superior to Batman

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Usually Cassandra has a large advantage with Precognition, but without it she's generally portrayed as below. Again though, it depends on the writer and the series (can't have Batman lose to Batgirl in the Batman comic after all)

The Lady Shiva point ties into what I said about Characters from DC

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Generally though, yes, Lady Shiva is above Bats in pure martial arts. There's a lot more too it than that though.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Okay so lemme try this

Pretty much everyone < League of Assassins members < Ra'as = Bane = Bane Daddy </= Deathstroke = Deadshot < Green Arrow = Jason Todd < Damian Wayne < Tim Drake < Nightwing (and maybe Cassandra) < Batman < Shiva

Does that seem accurate?

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Oh yeah. Ra's is generally portrayed as superior to Vandal Savage, who is 50000 years and has fought in many different wars and learned many different combat techniques

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Well, some of those depending on the writer also have more arrows and even Ra's can shitstomp League of Assassin members.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

"Weapon Mastery: Yes. Specifically, he can hit targets he can't see, small targets from 400 meters away, disarm people, impale a drop of water, jam the gun of a moving target, split two arrows while upside down, weakened, and shooting between his legs, fire four arrows at once, and doesn't need a bow. Deadshot (Floyd Lawton) considers him to be a superior marksma. (I have a bunch more scans, but if I listed every single one we'd be here all day. Hopefully you will take my word for Green Arrow being, in fact, capable of using arrows)"

To quote my revision for Green Arrow, this is his level of skill.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

I have issues with Lady Shiva tbh, since there are like 5 different fights where she loses to Robins and Batgirls

 

[Yobo_Blue]

I could keep going if you want.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

4-A should probably be Ares (DC Comics) btw, since he's reached a level far above everyone else and knows and understands all combat and tactics devised since the beginning of time.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Do we get a metric of how many times more skilled each person is than the previous?

What we know is 4 Red Martians = At least 1 Green Martian, and Green Generals can take on several other Greens at once

White Apes and Plantmen oneshot Green Generals, and Therns far outclass whole packs of such

12 Therns = 1 Black Martian, and 4-8 Black Martians = Prince Xodar, who Carthoris oneshots playfully

Literally thousands upon thousands of White Apes and Plantmen < John Carter and Tars Tarkas, who scale slightly above Carthoris and slightly below Solan, who equals full-potential John Carter

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Isn't oneshotting a AP feat?

 

[Creaturemaster971]

For the White Apes it is, everyone else accomplishes it through skill

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Context?

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Hm?

 

[Creaturemaster971]

What do you mean context?

 

[Yobo_Blue]

It's pretty close to impossible to one shot via skill unless it's something durability negating like pressure points or the nonsense like "breaking physics" via skill, and those type of powers aren't really the best measurement of skill and make it difficult to discern what's actually a better skill feat, hence why I didn't include them in any of the above. Therefore it's probably a good idea to get into the specifics of how they oneshot via skill.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

So it's stated repeatedly throughout the series that most Martian creatures and people are physically comparable, with certain specific differences (e.g. Carter is more agile and has better stamina than a Green, but loses just slightly in strength). The oneshotting always comes from the fact that they're wielding very sharp blades. With the exception of the apes, by oneshotting I meant that they just immediately get past the opponent's guard and cut them.

Greens can easily hold off 4 Reds at once via greater battle experience, coordination, and having more limbs to use multiple swords at once. Generals do the same to Greens via greater skill.

White Apes are physically the strongest beings on Mars (though not by an extreme margin), but can easily dispatch Greens, often in one strike, simply due to their ferocity and viciousness, something Plantmen also accomplish by having bizarre, unpredictable fighting styles and superior natural weaponry.

Therns can easily hold off the physically superior Apes and Plantmen via extensive swordsmanship training and extremely underhanded tactics. Blacks can take on a dozen Therns at once because their berserker-like fighting style is designed to plow through the Therns' defenses in spite of their trickery, and they are described as fighting with such reckless viciousness that even rabid animals look hesitant in comparison.

A Black Prince like Xodar is superior to a whole group of their compatriots, and John Carter oneshots Xodar by predicting his attack, redirecting it so that Xodar is left wide open, and striking him on a weak point.

Carthoris casually dances around Black Generals and cuts them down one after the other while having candid conversation with his dad, getting around them using his superior acrobatics.

Tars and Carter one-man-army thousands of Apes and Plantmen, as previously stated, and Solan is so much more skilled than either of them that until John rapidly hits his full potential, he says it's like fighting forty of him at once.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Idk, a few of these do seem like partial AP feats, so idk how we treat that

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Which ones?

Defeating someone in a single move can be done via skill, especially when you're doing it to someone physically superior to you. Plus the fact that everyone aside from the White Apes is stated to scale to each other, and as in real life, if you're skilled enough to get a sword past the opponent's defenses it's GG.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

That's piercing damage, which is practically the same as having a AP advantage

 

[Yobo_Blue]

All we can really say here is that John is hundreds of times more skilled than the most skilled human in verse, which isn't saying much if there isn't a metric given.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Well in that case everyone still scales. If we go off of the stated physical strength scaling chain we get

Reds = Therns < Greens = Blacks = John = Plantmen = Okarians < White Apes

And even then, the strength differences are minimal.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Even then, it doesn't matter if we don't get a skill metric other than that of being superior to another individual, which isn't really much.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Does skillstomping thousands of enemies at once not count as a skill feat? We can't judge their fighting styles visually because it's a novel

 

[Yobo_Blue]

That's a skill feat yes, but that doesn't tell us much other than that he has a massive advantage over them. When comparing skill to others from other fictional universes that have not interacted, there must be some point of measurement for both. In this case, it would be the skill feats of each person in the scaling chain.