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Top 10 Strongest Non-Smurfs for every tier continued (again)

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Ada's Mind Manipulation is absolutely not 10 Layers, ultimate you're wanking the **** out of her ability right now.

Trying to scale of Genjutsu-based Mind Manipulation resistance for an ability which isn't Genjutsu related is wrong, it's only baseline.
 
DaReaperMan said:
She's already up there, but should probably be higher in that case
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When Future Saika tried to kill the protagonist and Saika with her fourth substantiation so that they wouldn't stop her plan of saving the world through the sacrifice of millions of innocents. The protagonist's plan to save the world without using means that Saika would never accept led to the future brought forth being Future Saika's defeat.
 
Deceived3596 said:
Ada's Mind Manipulation is absolutely not 10 Layers, ultimate you're wanking the **** out of her ability right now.

Trying to scale of Genjutsu-based Mind Manipulation resistance for an ability which isn't Genjutsu related is wrong, it's only baseline.
Click to expand...
Its also mindhax, there is zero reason it would not get layers. especially when literally every single verse is allowed to use mindhax from multiple different sources for layers (also Genjutsu resistence can still resist other forms of mindhax like Inos mindhax which only effected Obito because he was controling the Ten Tails), and also it literally works by controlling the target, not some special thing which is impossible to do with genjutsu
 
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theultimate5105 said:
Its also mindhax, there is zero reason it would not get layers. especially when literally every single verse is allowed to use mindhax from multiple different sources for layers (also Genjutsu resistence can still resist other forms of mindhax like Inos mindhax which only effected Obito because he was controling the Ten Tails)
Click to expand...
Other verses dont do that though, and if they do then they shouldnt
 
Deceived3596 said:
Ada's Mind Manipulation is absolutely not 10 Layers, ultimate you're wanking the **** out of her ability right now.

Trying to scale of Genjutsu-based Mind Manipulation resistance for an ability which isn't Genjutsu related is wrong, it's only baseline.
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Uh... Arguable.

Edit: Like, deceived if we're going that strict with abilities then a lot of your favorite verses shouldn't have the scaling chains they do. 👀
 
azontr said:
What is putting D.Gray Man 5-B's(Earl and Noah Allen) above Illidan rn?
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Higher layering with their hax's/resistances and Earl's summons which include Tyki Mikk and Road Kamelot.

theultimate5105 said:
Its also mindhax, there is zero reason it would not get layers. especially when literally every single verse is allowed to use mindhax from multiple different sources for layers (also Genjutsu resistence can still resist other forms of mindhax like Inos mindhax which only effected Obito because he was controling the Ten Tails), and also it literally works by controlling the target, not some special thing which is impossible to do with genjutsu
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I don't care if it's also Mind Manipulation, those resistances are specifically from resisting Genjutsu's type of Mind Manipulation, just because another Mind Manipulation is Mind Manipulation doesn't mean a resistance towards Mind Manipulation allows to resist every single type of Mind Manipulation, because it doesn't, it's similar how having a resistance towards Soul Manipulation doesn't allow you to resist every single type of Soul Manipulation.

Cool, prove it would affect someone's resistance towards Ada's specific version of Mind Manipulation.
 
Everything12 said:
When Future Saika tried to kill the protagonist and Saika with her fourth substantiation so that they wouldn't stop her plan of saving the world through the sacrifice of millions of innocents. The protagonist's plan to save the world without using means that Saika would never accept led to the future brought forth being Future Saika's defeat.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info but uh... how does this apply to others again...?
LIFE_OF_KING said:
Everyone in 10-B are kids lol
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TBH if I gave a damn I could get Sans a spot lol
 
Deceived3596 said:
Cool, prove it would affect someone's resistance towards Ada's specific version of Mind Manipulation.
Click to expand...
I mean Illidan's mind resistance is just straight up mind control for now so it's not like it matters here since I don't think that's mind control
 
Deceived3596 said:
Higher layering with their hax's/resistances and Earl's summons which include Tyki Mikk and Road Kamelot.


I don't care if it's also Mind Manipulation, those resistances are specifically from resisting Genjutsu's type of Mind Manipulation, just because another Mind Manipulation is Mind Manipulation doesn't mean a resistance towards Mind Manipulation allows to resist every single type of Mind Manipulation, because it doesn't, it's similar how having a resistance towards Soul Manipulation doesn't allow you to resist every single type of Soul Manipulation.

Cool, prove it would affect someone's resistance towards Ada's specific version of Mind Manipulation.
Click to expand...
Eidas Mindhax literally doesn't do anything special, literally everything it does can be done with Genjutsu. Obito is shown to easily resist a different form of mindhax that isn't genjutsu.
Also you are saying this while accepting that characters with just resistence to mind manipulation resist it (which contradicts your resisting mindhax doesn't mean you resist all mindhax)
So either Eida wins here with 10 layers or Eida wins because they do not resist her specific type of mindhax
 
DaReaperMan said:
Thanks for the info but uh... how does this apply to others again...?

TBH if I gave a damn I could get Sans a spot lol
Click to expand...
Well it manipulates fate to bring forth a desired future that is inescapable as long as her fourth substantiation is active.

Her fourth substantiation being a miniature plane of existence she creates as her first move. With it being able to paint any scene in the world as an extension of it's ability to measure possibilities and bring forth a select one, as well as any attacks against her scattering without effect and refusing to harm her.

It's passive Fate Manipulation from a Pocket Reality she creates, with some other additional effects as part of the Fate Manipulation.
 
azontr said:
D.Gray Man top tiers have like 10/11 layers iirc?
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8/9 Layers in general for Dark Matter-based hax's and resistances, 9/10 Layers with Earl's Soul Absorption.

theultimate5105 said:
Eidas Mindhax literally doesn't do anything special, literally everything it does can be done with Genjutsu. Obito is shown to easily resist a different form of mindhax that isn't genjutsu.
Also you are saying this while accepting that characters with just resistence to mind manipulation resist it (which contradicts your resisting mindhax doesn't mean you resist all mindhax)
So either Eida wins here with 10 layers or Eida wins because they do not resist her specific type of mindhax
Click to expand...
Still doesn't matter, the effects which the Mind Manipulation has doesn't pertain to the applicability of said Mind Manipulation, basic Genjutsu effects the five senses, similar to Kyoka Suigetsu, doesn't mean resisting basic Genjutsu allows you to resist Kyoka Suigetsu because Kyoka Suigetsu doesn't apply that effect similarly to Genjutsu, one is through manipulating chakra while the other is through manipulating one's soul. Just because both abilities apply x effects doesn't mean having a resistance to either allows you to inherently resist the other's effects.

I'm not? unless you're referencing the Fiamma point, which if you're, i'm under the impression Fiamma's Mind Manipulation resistance is similar to Eda's Mind Manipulation, if it isn't then it doesn't help him, and he gets passively Mind Manipulated by Eda, simple as.

The latter is correct, the former isn't.
 
Deceived3596 said:
Still doesn't matter, the effects which the Mind Manipulation has doesn't pertain to the applicability of said Mind Manipulation, basic Genjutsu effects the five senses, similar to Kyoka Suigetsu, doesn't mean resisting basic Genjutsu allows you to resist Kyoka Suigetsu because Kyoka Suigetsu doesn't apply that effect similarly to Genjutsu, one is through manipulating chakra while the other is through manipulating one's soul. Just because both abilities apply x effects doesn't mean having a resistance to either allows you to inherently resist the other's effects.
Click to expand...
So you again are straight up saying that practically nobody can resist mindhax from another verse as they do not function in the exact same way. Pick a side either accept that layers for different abilities can exist or accept that mind manipulation is impossible to resist without resistence to basically the exact same ability
Also no KS is not special mindhaxing a being who is just a soul does not mean it bypasses resistences when said being has a normal mind
 
Ultimate you're misunderstanding everything i'm saying.

I'm not saying that nobody can resist Mind Manipulation from another verse, regardless of the situation, what i'm saying is Mind Manipulation resistance doesn't innately grant a resistance towards every single/most versions of Mind Manipulation, it's dependent on the energy-system which applies said Mind Manipulation, using Naruto as an example, it's assumed that Mind Manipulation which uses an energy-system that can be equalized with Chakra can be resisted by Genjutsu-based MM resistance, while another Mind Manipulation which uses an entirely different energy-system that can't be equalized with Chakra would bypass said Genjutsu-based MM resistance.

Everything i'm saying isn't new or incorrect from a rule standpoint, it's quite literally what's accepted on site currently.
 
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Deceived3596 said:
I've been told by @XDragnoir that Fiamma's a smurf in his 5-B key, which means he's sadly not eligible for placement on this thread.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure that he is a smurf is an opinion. Don't think that was ever accepted in a CRT unless I missed something. (And personally I doubt it's the case)
Although I have my doubts he would stay long on the list anyway. People with good regen will often beat him.

Like D or Karma Abyss.
 
DontTalkDT said:
Pretty sure that he is a smurf is an opinion. Don't think that was ever accepted in a CRT unless I missed something. (And personally I doubt it's the case)
Although I have my doubts he would stay long on the list anyway. People with good regen will often beat him.

Like D or Karma Abyss
Click to expand...
Has he done anything to any smurf shit? For instance, I don't know, being unable to get ****** by High 1-C power null?
 
DaReaperMan said:
Has he done anything to any smurf shit? For instance, I don't know, being unable to get ****** by High 1-C power null?
Click to expand...
I mean, if it's about that it's debtable... although I'm not much in favor.

(and currently Fiamma doesn't even have a resistance to powernull listed)

Fiamma absorbed Imagine Breaker (IB for short) which is Tier 1 smurf (Although the profile doesn't mention it in any way or form anymore, 'cause why make things understandable to readers), but he couldn't really use its power, so he doesn't scale to it due to absorbing it or anything.
Instead, on one hand, IB completed Fiamma's own power, but on the other hand also partially negated it. All and all it made Fiamma stronger to have it, which is why I think it's kinda weird to say Fiamma just resisted it. Like, there was definitely more going on there IMO.
It should also be said that IB is kinda weird with what powernull is concerned in general. Like, it can negate Tier 1 stuff, but it can also be overpowered by a continuous stream of Tier 6 power (E.g. some attacks from Index). So overpowering it, weirdly enough, doesn't make Tier 1 under all circumstances (and specifically not if it's done via a constant stream of power).

With all of that context in mind, here's a relevant quote on the case:
“I have it...”
Fiamma’s lips twisted in delight.

With a sound like a water balloon bursting, the severed right hand burst to pieces and the blood, flesh, bone, blood vessels, and nerves all neatly disassembled and spread out.

“The world environment has been prepared using the Star of Bethlehem and the right hand to act as a medium has been severed. The power that resides within me cannot show off 100% of its power except by way of your right hand. Imagine Breaker must be a type of purification tool the holy right hand naturally possesses, but to me it is no more than a mouse eating away at food stores. However, taking that unneeded ability into my power as one of the original pieces ends its role. ...With this, my right hand is complete. If I wield the power that should originally have been within me at its full output, the salvation of all will be complete. After all, my arm possesses the power to save the entire world. People may refer to that as being The One Above God, but... I do not particularly care about that. I do not intend to match or exceed him. I only intend to gather all the power I have now and to save the world with it.”

All the parts were absorbed into the third arm stretching from Fiamma of the Right’s right shoulder.

He was in anguish.

Normally, his face did not lose its composure, but his eyebrows twisted in displeasure just slightly.

The flesh and blood that had been put together was perfect, but the power of Imagine Breaker treated Fiamma of the Right as a special case and started to eat away at his very core.

However, it was worth mentioning that he did not immediately lose his power.

In other words, the power sleeping within Fiamma was constantly creating such great power that Imagine Breaker’s effects were not enough to negate it.

(All this could not have been carried out with clever tricks, so it seems luck and true skill were on my side. And if it did not have this level of output, it would not be known as the power that the Son of God should wield.)

Fiamma of the Right’s body shook.

Not only his heart constricted and retracted. Centered around his third arm, his entire body did as well. It was a reaction to the power stored at his center travelling to his right arm of flesh and blood.

A great change occurred as if to prove that the power to change the world had descended. However, this change was not in Fiamma’s body.
It was in the planet that received him.
The heavens greatly opened up.

That clear otherworldly and artificially arranged night sky of red, blue, yellow, and green split open. Like an old stocking ripping, large cracks appeared in places and they spread soundlessly.

On the other side was a golden light.

It was just like a legend. It was just like the world seen in religious art. That lowering curtain of light looked like a scene of the heavens and the earth being connected. Someone who did not know the circumstances would likely have mistaken it for an angel above the clouds about to spill out. In reality, god and the angels were not at a physical height. They were on the other side of some invisible phase like infrared rays or ultraviolet rays. However, that mistaken impression may not have been too far off in a way. That golden light was a massive amount of Telesma.

Fiamma had not called in an angel.

It may have been more accurate to say he had called in the world where angels were.

Fiamma of the Right had not pitifully knocked on the door again and again and then waited for the heavy door to open. He had only transformed the place at which he stood into an appropriate place.

When a certain Christian holy woman was forcibly thrown into a brothel, that brothel had turned into a shining place for sermons. It was the same as that.

When a different holy woman was thrown into a cold and dirty prison while injured, the entire space had overflowed with the shining power of the angels making it like a pure spring and the woman’s injuries were kindly healed. It was the same as that.

(It has been dyed by heaven.)
The area around the proper ones would be dyed in the proper manner. Fiamma of the Right’s lips twisted in pleasure upon confirming that truth.

(Once I rearrange the depths of the earth, all the gears will have been readjusted and the devices will have been set to keep them running smoothly. Then this world will once again be moving as it should be.)

That meant that he no longer needed the boy who had lost his right arm.

That mass of flesh that had been nothing more than an adapter to keep that right arm in the world needed to be quickly disposed of.

(I will save this world. You are no longer necessary to do that.)
Fiamma thrust his third arm that now clearly had a physical form toward the boy who

still had great amounts of blood gushing from his shoulder.

“You should be honored, you mass of flesh. You managed to carry out your purpose in life.”

That would settle it.
His third arm was no longer incomplete and it no longer continued to shake awkwardly.

The destruction he could carry out was different from the destruction that could be created by the 103,000 grimoires.

He held the power to save the world.

He held the power at the core of a legend.

He was known as The One Above God.
Click to expand...
(from Volume 22)
 
azontr said:
If he can absorb tier 1 shit then isn't his absorbtion also a tier 1 power
Click to expand...
He "absorbed" it, by cutting of the arm that IB is in, smashing it into pieces and putting those pieces into his own supernatural third arm.
So I would say no.
It's a bit like a robot could "absorb" Tier 1 tech by just plugging it into itself. Or how you could absorb a Tier 1 pill by swallowing it.
I don't think he really needs absorption power on par with IB for this.
 
azontr said:
Then it's not really absorption
Click to expand...
He still integrated another arm in his supernatural third arm. I'm not really sure what else to call it if not absorption.
 
YungManzi said:
Self-transmutation?
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Seeing how it involved another person's arm as well, it wouldn't just be self-Transmutation. More like limited transmutation maybe... idk.
Honestly, personally I think absorption fits just as well, but if ya want to do a CRT about it go on ahead.
 
DontTalkDT said:
He still integrated another arm in his supernatural third arm. I'm not really sure what else to call it if not absorption.
Click to expand...
Okay, so, if we're going to call it absorption, as in, it's an ability and not just him sewing shit onto his body, then, it'd still be tier 1 since it can work on tier 1 abilities.
 
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