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Top 10 Strongest Non-Smurfs for Every Tier Continuation

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The above shitshow would've been avoided if peeps just took it to their walls or a Vs thread instead of clogging up the discussion with a roundabout argument that ultimately went nowhere.

BestMGQScalerEver said:
I mean feel free to downgrade Yamamotos heat if it's that contradicted.
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It's almost like a separate universe comprised of spirit/soul bs just might work on slightly differently physics to our universe.
 
DaReaperMan said:
Ahem "The point is I don't like how you moved to dealing with the explanation that was given to you instead of being an annoying as **** stonewall" is what I just heard. Seriously. I don't pride myself on stonewalling for no reason. I am not FirePheonixEarl. If I'm stonewalling completely, I believe said thing I'm stonewalling on to be the case.
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Why would I want to engage with someone who admits themselves to be a stone wall? I should deadass take this as a concession.
DaReaperMan said:
Then explain, and explain thoroughly, this isn't rocket science, if you don't want me to try and fill in the gaps, then fill in those gaps before I could even think about touching them. And now you have another thing to explain, how does Yamamoto sense these spirit particles, are they different in aura, is this a Bleach thing where Spirit particles are just built different in general, if you don't want me to ask questions, explain shit before I do.
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Lol nope. Completely irrelevant. The point was.
The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
It's almost like a separate universe comprised of spirit/soul bs just might work on slightly differently physics to our universe.
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And if the physics are slightly different, is this noticeable immediately, is it noticeable in XYZ time? Is it just not noticeable st all it's that slight, speak sense, not Bleach
 
Rikimarox2 said:
How many layers are the Sharingan shenanigans? And can they, like, affect minds that are part of the soul? Asking for the future, since I might make a placement once I finish a profile.
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5-6 from my knowledge

Base Sharingan < Two Tomoe < Three Tomoe < Mangyekyo < Obito's Mangyekyo < Rinnegan

The reason I have Obito's mangyekyo above normal ones are the fact he can GJ Jinchuriki, who are resistant to normal mangyekyo genjutsu.
 
@Phsccarvalho I would recommend you making a verses thread for a higher position, especially since I'm not knowledgeable on most characters in 5-A, so I can't really tell if Woody would actually win those matches or not.
 
Arcker123 said:
Gorgon should beat up this guy, He would just dodge his attacks using his telepathy and skill and one shot with the stone stare, but he does lose to Shana for obvious reasons.
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Glaedr in character instantly starts with thought-based mind hax, which he can't really dodge and doesn't resist. That mind-hax is the main reason he's on the list, since it's additionally kinda above baseline.
So I don't think Gorgon can take him.

And, like, how does Gorgon beat Fushi? Fushi is too immortal for that.

And what Beatrice is concerned... well, he only wins if he immediately pulls his petrification. Otherwise she AoEs him via Low 7-B flames with several kilometer range.

ThanatosX said:
Depends. From a quick glance, characters like Beatrice and Gleadr are on the list because of their higher AP thanks to magic, something that would not work on the Leviathans because of their far higher Durability. The only exception is Gleadr's Mind Manipulation, which might be countered by the Leviathans' Hive Mind Type 2.
The one that you proposed might be able to beat the Leviathan because of a Dura Neg ability, but might lose against the other two because of the AP disadvantage. It's a typical case of only because A>B and B>C doesn't necessarily mean A>C.
I proposed a character that, from the look of it, can get a position, but if you have a better character you can propose it anyway. As I said, it was to fill empty spaces.
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Why would the Hive mind counter Glaedr's mind hax? He can target specific parts of an opponents mind if needed, so I don't think he would get confused or something.

Beatrice will cover the battlefield kilometer wide in flames, which can not only kill via burning up all oxygen, but are also so hot that a regular human would die from dehydration a hundred times over when standing in them, even if they don't get burned. So that could maybe get around the durability?
Although, honestly Wildefrau should share Beatrice's spot, who can just oneshot the Leviathan with absolute zero. (Since I don't think the cold resistance helps against that)

And... how do they win against Fushi?
 
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Deceived3596 said:
@Phsccarvalho I would recommend you making a verses thread for a higher position, especially since I'm not knowledgeable on most characters in 5-A, so I can't really tell if Woody would actually win those matches or not.
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To mean. Woody's main thing is the passive hax plot.

It's the strongest thing about Woody that could take him as far as possible.

If zeref can't resist all of Woody's hax or isn't a being that Woody is unable to interact with or something, I think Woody is much more likely to win.

Did any FT supporters participate here so I can mark the message?
 
DontTalkDT said:
Why would the Hive mind counter Glaedr's mind hax? He can target specific parts of an opponents mind if needed, so I don't think he would get confused or something.
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Mind Hax wouldn't work simply because the Leviathan themselves don't have a mind of their own, but a Hive Mind that is centralized in a spaceshift placed deep into space. To affect a Leviathan's mind he would need to reach the spaceshift with it, which would require a Universal range. And even if he was able to reach the mind in the spaceshift, there is no garantee that he would be able to Mind Hax it since it is most likely artificial in nature.

DontTalkDT said:
Beatrice will cover the battlefield kilometer wide in flames, which can not only kill via burning up all oxygen, but are also so hot that a regular human would die from dehydration a hundred times over when standing in them, even if they don't get burned. So that could maybe get around the durability?
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Oxygen wouldn't be that much of a problem, considering their body is mostly cybernetic and they live in space with no issues. The hot flames, instead, won't be too problematic since the outer shell of the Leviathans is able to tank the heat of Iron Man's lasers, which were able to melt throught an army of drones like butter. I guess it's not listed in the page because it's his outer shell that resists high temperatures, but I think it should be added honestly.

DontTalkDT said:
Although, honestly Wildefrau should share Beatrice's spot, who can just oneshot the Leviathan with absolute zero. (Since I don't think the cold resistance helps against that)
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The Leviathans and the Chitauri are able to survive for prolonged period of time in the deep space, they basically live in it, and since being in space for long times is almost equivalent to Absolute Zero I don't think that would one shot them.

DontTalkDT said:
And... how do they win against Fushi?
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Yeah, the Leviathans can't kill him because of his Immortality and Regeneration, but he can't put down the Leviathans neither since the only dura neg hax I could find in his profile is Sleep Manipulation, which requires to affect the Mind in some capacity, something hard to do when the Mind is centralized deep into space.
If Fushi is able to beat Glaedr than I think him and the Leviathans can share the position, imho.
 
ThanatosX said:
Mind Hax wouldn't work simply because the Leviathan themselves don't have a mind of their own, but a Hive Mind that is centralized in a spaceshift placed deep into space. To affect a Leviathan's mind he would need to reach the spaceshift with it, which would require a Universal range. And even if he was able to reach the mind in the spaceshift, there is no garantee that he would be able to Mind Hax it since it is most likely artificial in nature.
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Can the spaceship be that far away? IIRC we only see them attack through a portal, no? Also, their hive mind is type 2, not type 1, so doesn't the individual unit have an individual mind as well?
ThanatosX said:
Oxygen wouldn't be that much of a problem, considering their body is mostly cybernetic and they live in space with no issues.
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They don't have self-sustenance, so I think it might.
ThanatosX said:
The hot flames, instead, won't be too problematic since the outer shell of the Leviathans is able to tank the heat of Iron Man's lasers, which were able to melt throught an army of drones like butter. I guess it's not listed in the page because it's his outer shell that resists high temperatures, but I think it should be added honestly.
Click to expand...
Thing is, this isn't about burning a hole into it or vaporizing some armor via a targeted beam. This is about just turning the environment too hot. The point is Beatrice doesn't need to melt their armor. She just needs to make it so hot in the armor that they die of dehydration and that's what she can do.
She doesn't need to heat them to a gazillion degrees. She just needs to heat them enough for the water to evaporate.
ThanatosX said:
The Leviathans and the Chitauri are able to survive for prolonged period of time in the deep space, they basically live in it, and since being in space for long times is almost equivalent to Absolute Zero I don't think that would one shot them.
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Surviving in deep space for long periods is not even close to absolute zero. Remember that every space station can do that. You just need a little heat from the inside to keep warm, as, while space is cold, it is terrible at draining heat. One big problem for spaceships is actually not to overheat, rather than not becoming too cold.

To that comes that absolute zero has quantum effects which lesser levels of cold doesn't.

So yeah, surviving in space is no feat of protection against that at all.
ThanatosX said:
Yeah, the Leviathans can't kill him because of his Immortality and Regeneration, but he can't put down the Leviathans neither since the only dura neg hax I could find in his profile is Sleep Manipulation, which requires to affect the Mind in some capacity, something hard to do when the Mind is centralized deep into space.
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The mind stuff is not true. Fushi uses a potent sleeping drug for that purposes, which he can disperse through the air. So it puts things to sleep via their biology.

That aside, it doesn't matter. Fushi could continue fighting them until they die of old age and win that way.

Not that it would be necessary, if he can simply turn into a flea and get inside the creature to then fill it with tons of molten iron form the inside. Or similar things, like chewing it up inside out, like a parasite. Or disable the tech.

Fushi is also constantly growing and learning to reproduce new things. After a while of fighting the thing it would be able to reproduce its tech.

Basically, it will take a while, but Fushi will without a doubt win eventually.
ThanatosX said:
If Fushi is able to beat Glaedr than I think him and the Leviathans can share the position, imho.
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Fushi can't beat Gladr, since Glaedr would just mind hax him.
 
DontTalkDT said:
Can the spaceship be that far away? IIRC we only see them attack through a portal, no? Also, their hive mind is type 2, not type 1, so doesn't the individual unit have an individual mind as well?
Click to expand...
They needed the portal to reach Earth and to continually send in new Chitauri to the planet to overwhelm the Avengers with sheer numbers, it's never stated or implied that the Chitauri themselves needs to be close to the spaceship to function, and in Endgame they can seemingly even work in a different Timeline, somehow, but that's beyond the point.
Regarding the Hive Mind, I don't think that Type 2 is the correct one since all the Chitauri died the moment the ship exploded, which indicates that their mind was up there rather than each of them having their own mind.

DontTalkDT said:
They don't have self-sustenance, so I think it might.
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Honestly, I don't understand why they don't have it despite being seen to survive easily in deep space. It's probably because the profile is kinda outdated.

DontTalkDT said:
Thing is, this isn't about burning a hole into it or vaporizing some armor via a targeted beam. This is about just turning the environment too hot. The point is Beatrice doesn't need to melt their armor. She just needs to make it so hot in the armor that they die of dehydration and that's what she can do.
She doesn't need to heat them to a gazillion degrees. She just needs to heat them enough for the water to evaporate.
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Considering they body is mostly cybernetical, I don't think that evaporating the water they have inside would be enough to kill them, but I might be wrong.

DontTalkDT said:
Surviving in deep space for long periods is not even close to absolute zero. Remember that every space station can do that. You just need a little heat from the inside to keep warm, as, while space is cold, it is terrible at draining heat. One big problem for spaceships is actually not to overheat, rather than not becoming too cold.

To that comes that absolute zero has quantum effects which lesser levels of cold doesn't.

So yeah, surviving in space is no feat of protection against that at all.
Click to expand...
Honestly than, space in the MCU seems to work differently since in both Guardians of the Galaxy characters that went in space quickly freeze lol

DontTalkDT said:
The mind stuff is not true. Fushi uses a potent sleeping drug for that purposes, which he can disperse through the air. So it puts things to sleep via their biology.

That aside, it doesn't matter. Fushi could continue fighting them until they die of old age and win that way.

Not that it would be necessary, if he can simply turn into a flea and get inside the creature to then fill it with tons of molten iron form the inside. Or similar things, like chewing it up inside out, like a parasite. Or disable the tech.

Fushi is also constantly growing and learning to reproduce new things. After a while of fighting the thing it would be able to reproduce its tech.

Basically, it will take a while, but Fushi will without a doubt win eventually.
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The sleeping stuff would still need to affect his brain to actually put it to sleep in the first place, but the other points are fair.

Honestly thought, I don't care enough for that spot to actually continue to debate about it. As I said previously, it was just to fill a place, so if you feel that all of them beats the MCU characters then that's fine for me.
 
ThanatosX said:
They needed the portal to reach Earth and to continually send in new Chitauri to the planet to overwhelm the Avengers with sheer numbers, it's never stated or implied that the Chitauri themselves needs to be close to the spaceship to function, and in Endgame they can seemingly even work in a different Timeline, somehow, but that's beyond the point.
Click to expand...
Well, logically speaking, there needs to be some kind of signal exchanged between the mothership and the individuals, if they "remote control" them from there. So it's reasonable to assume that there is a maximum range between mothership and soldiers.

Endgame probably had their controller somewhere close by in the same timeline...
ThanatosX said:
Regarding the Hive Mind, I don't think that Type 2 is the correct one since all the Chitauri died the moment the ship exploded, which indicates that their mind was up there rather than each of them having their own mind.
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Sounds like you need to do a revision then, if you want to keep the spot against Glaedr.
ThanatosX said:
Honestly, I don't understand why they don't have it despite being seen to survive easily in deep space. It's probably because the profile is kinda outdated.
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Or it's because they coudl essentially be astronauts. I.e. have some oxygen supply rather than not needing to breathe.
ThanatosX said:
Considering they body is mostly cybernetical, I don't think that evaporating the water they have inside would be enough to kill them, but I might be wrong.
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Mostly isn't enough. They aren't robots, so it should work. They are fundamentally still born biological, after all.
ThanatosX said:
Honestly than, space in the MCU seems to work differently since in both Guardians of the Galaxy characters that went in space quickly freeze lol
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That would still not be evidence for absolute zeor resistance in any case.
ThanatosX said:
The sleeping stuff would still need to affect his brain to actually put it to sleep in the first place, but the other points are fair.

Honestly thought, I don't care enough for that spot to actually continue to debate about it. As I said previously, it was just to fill a place, so if you feel that all of them beats the MCU characters then that's fine for me.
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Well, in that case, I do think they all have a good chance. At least unless the hive mind stuff is revised and we get to know how far away the mothership may be. Then Gleadr might lose, creatinga rock-paper-scissors situation.
 
Can anyone in the 10-B tier handle Echidna?

She has passive fear aura hax and madness type 3 that brings people to death.

She also has 7-B magic and barriers. Including a lot of elemental abilities, time stop, BFR, transmutation, and other things.
 
Phoenks said:
Can anyone in the 10-B tier handle Echidna?

She has passive fear aura hax and madness type 3 that brings people to death.

She also has 7-B magic and barriers. Including a lot of elemental abilities, time stop, BFR, transmutation, and other things.
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Jean can think and win

#1 has NASTY Passives i know that for a fact

#2 literally has "I win" levels of BS supernatural luck

Don't know anything about the rest
 
DaReaperMan said:
Jean can think and win

#1 has NASTY Passives i know that for a fact

#2 literally has "I win" levels of BS supernatural luck

Don't know anything about the rest
Click to expand...
How will Jean think clearly when she's going mad to death and is paralyzed in fear? Echidna can also use magic via thoughts so that's a win-con too.

What exactly does she have that's an instant kill anyway?

How does the supernatural luck work exactly? Like, can it just bypass madness and fear passives?
 
Phoenks said:
How will Jean think clearly when she's going mad to death and is paralyzed in fear?

How does the supernatural luck work exactly? Like, can it just bypass madness and fear passives?
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I don't know, how fast does the madness happen? Lol

I described it as it is, it's basically "I win". Or more specifically, no matter how low the chance is, no matter how outlandish it is, if Higashi has even a Snowflake's chance in hell chance of winning, he WILL win with ease
 
DaReaperMan said:
I don't know, how fast does the madness happen?
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Incapacitates instantly. Kills in seconds.


DaReaperMan said:
I described it as it is, it's basically "I win". Or more specifically, no matter how low the chance is, no matter how outlandish it is, if Higashi has even a Snowflake's chance in hell chance of winning, he WILL win with ease
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That doesn't really tell me anything important though.

Like, sure, it's passive, but if it has no feats of cancelling passives like madness or feat hax, how is he going to survive?

What are some feats he's done?
 
Phoenks said:
How will Jean think clearly when she's going mad to death and is paralyzed in fear? Echidna can also use magic via thoughts so that's a win-con too.
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Echidna only has a range of Tens of Meters while Jean has Tens of Kilometers, her passives will not affect her before the former is deconstructed to the quantum level with a thought
 
Phoenks said:
Incapacitates instantly. Kills in seconds.



That doesn't really tell me anything important though.

Like, sure, it's passive, but if it has no feats of cancelling passives like madness or feat hax, how is he going to survive?

What are some feats he's done?
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Like, knocks out instantly? Cause if not Jean kind of thinks and blows arachnophobia to the next galaxy, also what RoTT said

Ask someone else because that's something I don't know
 
well given that both Teruhashi and Tachibana probably have passive social influencing is probably what gave them higher placing, though given that Jean has berserk mode, she probably will just nuke them from existence anyway

but she'll stop at Akane Kiryu because she cannot interact with them
 
Noneless21 said:
well given that both Teruhashi and Tachibana probably have passive social influencing is probably what gave them higher placing, though given that Jean has berserk mode, she probably will just nuke them from existence anyway

but she'll stop at Akane Kiryu because she cannot interact with them
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If Jean can apparently get past madness hax then social influencing should be no issue.
 
DaReaperMan said:
Like, knocks out instantly? Cause if not Jean kind of thinks and blows arachnophobia to the next galaxy, also what RoTT said

Ask someone else because that's something I don't know
Click to expand...
Nevermind on the incapacitation. It actually immediately makes you kill yourself.

From the novel.

The men scratched and tore at their necks, rolled their eyes back into their heads, blew foam out of their mouths, convulsed, choked on their tongues, split their own heads open with their weapons, buried their heads in the snow, and died in agony in various other ways.
Click to expand...
 
DaReaperMan said:
Gotcha

Should net a decent spot, but for folks who outrange her like Jean she's probably screwed
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(I don't even know why her range is that low when she can fire beams of light and shit very far away)

But anyway I think that only applies to her attack range. The madness should work against anyone that just looks at/experiences her miasma. Since it's just a side effect of it.
 
Shulk needs to be taken off the 2-B and 2-A sections, since those keys went bye bye. He's now purely Low 1-C (6-D) outside of his Tier 7 key
 
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