Toji Fushigiro Berserk Mode addition

[CurrySenpai]

Hoenstly I think it's safe to apply since it's not too controversial and there's more agreements than disagree (?) double check though

 

[Memonto_Mori]

According to the Berserk definition page, intelligence is often reduced to the level of animal instincts. In his fight with Toji dagon, Toji is making a plan with his intelligence in response to the dagon, which we can already see from the sharpening of the cursed weapon by hitting and sharpening each other. In this situation, the person in this situation begins to attack indiscriminately and his aggression increases Toji only attacks against those he sees as a threat. With people like megumi, his priority is dagon because he perceives him as a threat that needs to be eliminated, which is another proof that his intelligence is high, which is completely antithetical to the berserk mordu, and Toji asks megumi for her last name before killing himself, which is proof that toji is in his right mind, and even if Berserk mod is added, it should be limited because toji's mind is kind of going back and forth.

 

[Zeinx1]

According to the Berserk definition page, intelligence is often reduced to the level of animal instincts. In his fight with Toji dagon, Toji is making a plan with his intelligence in response to the dagon, which we can already see from the sharpening of the cursed weapon by hitting and sharpening each other. In this situation, the person in this situation begins to attack indiscriminately and his aggression increases Toji only attacks against those he sees as a threat. With people like megumi, his priority is dagon because he perceives him as a threat that needs to be eliminated, which is another proof that his intelligence is high, which is completely antithetical to the berserk mordu, and Toji asks megumi for her last name before killing himself, which is proof that toji is in his right mind, and even if Berserk mod is added, it should be limited because toji's mind is kind of going back and forth.

I agree. Adding Berserk Mode for Toji is complete nonsense

 

[CurrySenpai]

According to the Berserk definition page, intelligence is often reduced to the level of animal instincts. In his fight with Toji dagon, Toji is making a plan with his intelligence in response to the dagon, which we can already see from the sharpening of the cursed weapon by hitting and sharpening each other. In this situation, the person in this situation begins to attack indiscriminately and his aggression increases Toji only attacks against those he sees as a threat. With people like megumi, his priority is dagon because he perceives him as a threat that needs to be eliminated, which is another proof that his intelligence is high, which is completely antithetical to the berserk mordu, and Toji asks megumi for her last name before killing himself, which is proof that toji is in his right mind, and even if Berserk mod is added, it should be limited because toji's mind is kind of going back and forth.

We already addressed this, also he literally attacks the strongest with not much thought, I think that's pretty clear-cut not a plan he's just murdering people. Even then, Toji asked for Megumi's last name because he had temporarily broken free from Granny's curse. He is very clearly berserk, maybe not in the conventional sense but he is getting stronger and not of the same state and mind attacking the strongest. This is very clear cut Berserk Mode

 

[DragonKing400]

According to the Berserk definition page, intelligence is often reduced to the level of animal instincts. In his fight with Toji dagon, Toji is making a plan with his intelligence in response to the dagon, which we can already see from the sharpening of the cursed weapon by hitting and sharpening each other. In this situation, the person in this situation begins to attack indiscriminately and his aggression increases Toji only attacks against those he sees as a threat. With people like megumi, his priority is dagon because he perceives him as a threat that needs to be eliminated, which is another proof that his intelligence is high, which is completely antithetical to the berserk mordu, and Toji asks megumi for her last name before killing himself, which is proof that toji is in his right mind, and even if Berserk mod is added, it should be limited because toji's mind is kind of going back and forth.

Toji doesn't use his intelligence to decide who to attack. Just like you said, he attacks indiscriminately. Choosing someone else first has nothing to do with his intelligence. It’s very clear that the Baran aims to add the Berserk form for after he takes over the body and the Granny’s seance technique makes him go mad.

 

[CurrySenpai]

But as I've been saying from the start, it would in fact be limited. Toji can't go into this on his own and he even breaks out of it somewhat.

 

[Memonto_Mori]

We already addressed this, also he literally attacks the strongest with not much thought, I think that's pretty clear-cut not a plan he's just murdering people. Even then, Toji asked for Megumi's last name because he had temporarily broken free from Granny's curse. He is very clearly berserk, maybe not in the conventional sense but he is getting stronger and not of the same state and mind attacking the strongest. This is very clear cut Berserk Mode

I didn't say that attacking was a plan, I said that he had a plan when he fought Dagon, such as distracting him and using his intelligence to sharpen the Cursed weapon. You say he wasn't in a frenzied state and you think he should be given a berserk mod just because he got stronger, which is completely contradictory and absurd.

 

[Memonto_Mori]

Toji doesn't use his intelligence to decide who to attack. Just like you said, he attacks indiscriminately. Choosing someone else first has nothing to do with his intelligence. It’s very clear that the Baran aims to add the Berserk form for after he takes over the body and the Granny’s seance technique makes him go mad.

someone who has berserk mode doesn't care about threats or anything, he attacks whoever he comes across. If toji was in berserk mode he would have attacked maki but he just took the gun from maki and went to fight dagon.

 

[CurrySenpai]

You say he wasn't in a frenzied state and you think he should be given a berserk mod just because he got stronger, which is completely contradictory and absurd.

When did I say this? Also, calm down, there's no need to be so aggressive.

 

[DragonKing400]

someone who has berserk mode doesn't care about threats or anything, he attacks whoever he comes across. If toji was in berserk mode he would have attacked maki but he just took the gun from maki and went to fight dagon.

What you say proves that Toji disobeyed Granny's order and attacked someone else indiscriminately.

 

[Memonto_Mori]

When did I say this? Also, calm down, there's no need to be so aggressive.

my mistake I misread what you wrote and I am calm, I am not aggressive, the fact that Megumi asked for his last name is proof that he is calm and sane

 

[Memonto_Mori]

What you say proves that Toji disobeyed Granny's order and attacked someone else indiscriminately.

Toji killed the grandmother even though he didn't see her as a threat, okay, then what about the fact that he directly attacked the person he saw as a threat after being summoned, isn't that completely contradictory

 

[Memonto_Mori]

Toji's mind is in some parts and not in others, and he is not in a completely insane state, even the use of his intellect is proof that he is not in insane mode. Even if a forced argument is entered into the profile, it should be entered in a limited way.

 

[Arkenis]

Yeah arguing Berserk mode for this when so many things are against it like Toji consciously making pc sharper, using pc in a meaningful way to gain height, being able to take control of himself.

What this is, is Instinctive action which he already has on profile.

 

[CurrySenpai]

my mistake I misread what you wrote and I am calm, I am not aggressive, the fact that Megumi asked for his last name is proof that he is calm and sane

It's fine. Regardless the point we're trying to make is that yes, we know he breaks out of the Seance technique occasionally, but we're not trying to add a berserk mode for beyond that. He is receiving a Berserk mode for when under the effect of Seance, hence why it's going to be limited and should also be noted he can break out of it occasionally and regain his composure.

No one is denying that he's sound of mind in the moments with Megumi and initially with Granny, but he is certainly not when fighting against Dagon and Megumi originally. The plot makes that obvious.

 

[Memonto_Mori]

It's fine. Regardless the point we're trying to make is that yes, we know he breaks out of the Seance technique occasionally, but we're not trying to add a berserk mode for beyond that. He is receiving a Berserk mode for when under the effect of Seance, hence why it's going to be limited and should also be noted he can break out of it occasionally and regain his composure.

No one is denying that he's sound of mind in the moments with Megumi and initially with Granny, but he is certainly not when fighting against Dagon and Megumi originally. The plot makes that obvious.

you get the berserk mode from the seance technique, but that's completely wrong, the grandmother tells toji to kill jujutsu mages, but the grandmother is a jujutsu mage

 

[Memonto_Mori]

Yeah arguing Berserk mode for this when so many things are against it like Toji consciously making pc sharper, using pc in a meaningful way to gain height, being able to take control of himself.

What this is, is Instinctive action which he already has on profile.

I guess they don't know how the seance technique or berserk mode works

 

[CurrySenpai]

Yeah arguing Berserk mode for this when so many things are against it like Toji consciously making pc sharper, using pc in a meaningful way to gain height, being able to take control of himself.

What this is, is Instinctive action which he already has on profile.

Limited intelligence does mean total loss of intelligence. There are plenty of characters who have Berserk Mode and still do somewhat meaningful or thoughtful attacks. In fact, I'd argue making playful cloud sharper is helping his case. A blunt weapon like that won't do much, but something sharper and more geared towards killing certainly helped him kill Dagon faster and even stabbed him relentlessly with no mercy. Making Playful Cloud sharper could just be him wanting to kill Dagon in a more berserk, more deadly fashion.

 

[DragonKing400]

Toji killed the grandmother even though he didn't see her as a threat, okay, then what about the fact that he directly attacked the person he saw as a threat after being summoned, isn't that completely contradictory

Toji was clearly conscious and of sound mind when he initially reincarnated. Toji was never growing faster, he was accelerating further. Never again is he mentioned to have been increasing in abilities. The Berserk Mode is merely Ogami's grandson body and soul being puppeteered by Toji's unparalleled strength. I could have sworn that Baran's goal was to add something like "Berserk Mode with Seance".

 

[Memonto_Mori]

Toji was clearly conscious and of sound mind when he initially reincarnated. Toji was never growing faster, he was accelerating further. Never again is he mentioned to have been increasing in abilities. The Berserk Mode is merely Ogami's grandson body and soul being puppeteered by Toji's unparalleled strength. I could have sworn that Baran's goal was to add something like "Berserk Mode with Seance".

The aim is to add berserk mode with the seance technique, but this is a false empty endeavor.

 

[Duedate8898]

Just because a character is in Berserk Mode, that doesn't mean they can't show intelligence. The very power definition itself says "often" not all the time. I don't know why we're trying to be strict in what it means for a character to enter a berserk state. Toji is prowling around like an animal, attacking the strongest he sees without hesitation. Boom, sounds like something going berserk

 

[Memonto_Mori]

Just because a character is in Berserk Mode, that doesn't mean they can't show intelligence. The very power definition itself says "often" not all the time. I don't know why we're trying to be strict in what it means for a character to enter a berserk state. Toji is prowling around like an animal, attacking the strongest he sees without hesitation. Boom, sounds like something going berserk

I thought we made the additions according to the VSB page, to be honest, what you said is completely different from the requirements on the Berserk page. Someone in berserk mode does not recognize enemies or friends and attacks everything and everyone in front of him, but toji does not do this and his intelligence has never been reduced to animal level.

 

[DragonKing400]

The aim is to add berserk mode with the seance technique, but this is a false empty endeavor.

Your own opinion. But don't disrespect the proponents by saying it is a futile endeavor or nonsense. If it was a futile effort, my guess is that the staff would have seen it and acted upon it.

 

[Memonto_Mori]

Your own opinion. But don't disrespect the proponents by saying it is a futile endeavor or nonsense. If it was a futile effort, my guess is that the staff would have seen it and acted upon it.

It is a futile effort to try to add a plugin to the profile even though all the arguments have been debunked, don't take what I said as an insult, just a suggestion to avoid wasting more of your time.

 

[DragonKing400]

I thought we made the additions according to the VSB page, to be honest, what you said is completely different from the requirements on the Berserk page. Someone in berserk mode does not recognize enemies or friends and attacks everything and everyone in front of him, but toji does not do this and his intelligence has never been reduced to animal level.

He literally just told you the definition on the Berserk Mode page. He did nothing otherwise.

 

[Duedate8898]

I thought we made the additions according to the VSB page, to be honest, what you said is completely different from the requirements on the Berserk page. Someone in berserk mode does not recognize enemies or friends and attacks everything and everyone in front of him, but toji does not do this and his intelligence has never been reduced to animal level.

Toji doesn't recognize enemy or friend, literally after killing dagon he attacks his own son because he is the strongest of the lot left. So there's that condition met. Sure he breaks out of the mindstate after a little bit, but that's just exiting berserk mode.

And finally, the page does not say "everytime someone enters berserk mode they have the intelligence of an animal" it says "often". And even more than that, just because your intelligence is like that of animal doesn't mean you can't do smart things, animals aren't just stupid creatures they can think and make plans.

The VSB page is nowhere near as strict as you're trying to interpret it.

 

[Memonto_Mori]

He literally just told you the definition on the Berserk Mode page. He did nothing otherwise.

(sneak attacking the strongest without hesitation) is equivalent to the one on this page?

 

[CurrySenpai]

It is a futile effort to try to add a plugin to the profile even though all the arguments have been debunked, don't take what I said as an insult, just a suggestion to avoid wasting more of your time.

What do you mean Debunked? We have mods already agreeing and we nothing has truly been debunked. People are just raising their own interpretations nothing has concretely been provided to say "Toji was a completely normal and of sound mind while fighting dagon."

 

[DragonKing400]

It is a futile effort to try to add a plugin to the profile even though all the arguments have been debunked, don't take what I said as an insult, just a suggestion to avoid wasting more of your time.

Not all arguments have been absolutely debunked. We are still debating this issue and you can see in the OP that Baran was voted out of some staff.

 

[DragonKing400]

(sneak attacking the strongest without hesitation) is equivalent to the one on this page?

No, he just told you that the definition does not always apply and that the definition includes the word "often".

 

[Memonto_Mori]

Toji doesn't recognize enemy or friend, literally after killing dagon he attacks his own son because he is the strongest of the lot left. So there's that condition met. Sure he breaks out of the mindstate after a little bit, but that's just exiting berserk mode.

And finally, the page does not say "everytime someone enters berserk mode they have the intelligence of an animal" it says "often". And even more than that, just because your intelligence is like that of animal doesn't mean you can't do smart things, animals aren't just stupid creatures they can think and make plans.

The VSB page is nowhere near as strict as you're trying to interpret it.

Toji attacks megumi because he is ordered to kill jujutsu wizards After the death of Dagon, he attacks megumi because the order is still valid, but when he is summoned, he attacks the person he sees as a threat This is another proof that there is no berserk mode Toji never gets so stupid that we can call it animal intelligence

If it is not so strict then change the page

 

[Memonto_Mori]

Not all arguments have been absolutely debunked. We are still debating this issue and you can see in the OP that Baran was voted out of some staff.

I invite all of the staff to debate with me and if they can refute what I say and prove that it is appropriate for the berserk page, I will withdraw from this debate and accept it.

 

[Memonto_Mori]

What do you mean Debunked? We have mods already agreeing and we nothing has truly been debunked. People are just raising their own interpretations nothing has concretely been provided to say "Toji was a completely normal and of sound mind while fighting dagon."

You say you are commenting according to the VSB page, but the arguments you present are completely contradictory to the VSB page, you don't even need someone to refute them, you contradict yourself

 

[DragonKing400]

Toji never gets so stupid that we can call it animal intelligence

It is not required by the definition of Berserk Mode that it is not dumbed down to the level of animal intelligence.

 

[Memonto_Mori]

It is not required by the definition of Berserk Mode that it is not dumbed down to the level of animal intelligence.

Then remove it from the page

 

[DragonKing400]

I invite all of the staff to debate with me and if they can refute what I say and prove that it is appropriate for the berserk page, I will withdraw from this debate and accept it.

Then have fun.

 

[Duedate8898]

Toji attacks megumi because he is ordered to kill jujutsu wizards After the death of Dagon, he attacks megumi because the order is still valid, but when he is summoned, he attacks the person he sees as a threat This is another proof that there is no berserk mode Toji never gets so stupid that we can call it animal intelligence

If it is not so strict then change the page

I see no further point in talking with someone who ignores explicit statements from the source material. If OP can get a recount of votes we can see whether this passed or not and get it closed either way

 

[CurrySenpai]

I forgot if I have ping abilites but @BaranDragneel if you could look at the agreements and disagreements and tally them up it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Memonto_Mori]

I see no further point in talking with someone who ignores explicit statements from the source material. If OP can get a recount of votes we can see whether this passed or not and get it closed either way

I also think it is a waste of time to talk to someone who lacks reading comprehension and has no knowledge to refute what I say.

 

[CurrySenpai]

I also think it is a waste of time to talk to someone who lacks reading comprehension and has no knowledge to refute what I say.

Okay NOW you are being aggressive.