FantaRin_The_First
Username Only- 4,070
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Eh. After a bit of thinking, I'll share the same opinion as Noir. I.e, agree to all ('sides maybe Sin Manip). Peps have to remember, tho, that all of this comes attached with a possibly rating.
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[Toaru] Alice Anotherbible's Resistances
- Thread starter XDragnoir
- Start date
- 1,762
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Hmmm. There are several haxes on here that don't make sense and don't even exist for the characters you're referring too (Kazakiri's as an example is not law manip). I'm going to go through all of these and say what I agree or don't agree with, but for the record my metric is based on what I said earlier on how abilities seem to interact with Alice ; if it is an attack that doesn't target the interior specifically or has a specified directed effect inside her, then it's a no go.
An example of this using what you provided above is sealing. Sealing has nothing to do with affecting her interior, and we also don't even understand the mechanics of Fiamma's sealing in the first place. That's an automatic disagree as it affects the entire body/existence itself and not just the interior, and we know that Alice can be affected by exterior stimuli very easily. A counter argument to this might be 'soul manipulation is linked to sealing' but I think there's a difference between sealing someone somewhere with everything and just trying to rip their soul out. Two different methodologies affecting far more things.
Before I go into this, just to make sure, we will be putting a clause in resistances that these are Interior only , right?
Felience1
He/Him- 148
- 39
Yes, she will have:
possibly resistant to (insert power) when used internally.
For example: Explosion manipulation, if it explodes outside of her works. if it starts inside that's a no.
I hope this clears your doubt.
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Felience1
He/Him- 148
- 39
Oh that's right, XDragnoir said she also has law manip and i didn't check. Who else has law manip? Accel plat?
Edit: Reading all of Kazakiri's page i see where XDragnoir thought she had it. I think she should but that is not for this thread so lets go with Accel or other character.
Edit: Reading all of Kazakiri's page i see where XDragnoir thought she had it. I think she should but that is not for this thread so lets go with Accel or other character.
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I'm basing my agreements on the fact that either the ability has been stated or shown to be directly applied to target internals, bypassing the exterior altogether, or the ability targets internals by default, ignoring the exterior.
My disagreements are based on the following:
1. The ability is too broad and has many other applications for it to be applied as a blanket resistance for her internals (e.g. Vector Manipulation)
2. The ability has not been stated or shown to be applied directly to someone's internals.
3. The ability targets more than just the internals, ignoring the exterior.
Agree with:
Poison Manipulation
Blood Manipulation
Bioelectricity Manipulation
Radiation Manipulation
Mind Manipulation
Biological Manipulation
Powernull
Life Force Destruction
Water Manipulation
Pain Manipulation
Paralysis Inducement
Acid Manipulation
Perception Manipulation
Teleportation
Possession
Memory Manipulation
Not sure about:
Soul Manipulation (via Aleister & HP; reason 1 and 3)
Transmutation (via Kakine; reason 2 & 3)
Matter Manipulation (via Kakine; reason 2 & 3)
Matter Absorption (via Kakine; reason 2 & 3)
Deconstruction (via Fiamma; reason 2 & 3; don't really remember Kakine having this tbh)
Stamina Reduction (via Flame Dragon; reason 3)
Sealing (via Fiamma; reason 2)
Body Puppetry (via Qliphah; reason 3)
Microwave Attack (via Fran; isn't this just radiation?)
Sin Manipulation (via Coronzon; what exactly does this entail?)
Madness Manipulation (depends on the medium)
Corrosion Inducement (via Coronzon; don't remember this being a thing)
Vibration Manipulation (via Nephthys; did Nephthys ever directly target internals with this?)
Empathic Manipulation (via Nephthys; same as above)
Illusion Manipulation (via Spiritual Tripping; reason 2)
Disagree with:
Electricity Manipulation (via Misaka; reason 1)
Fear Manipulation (via Dainsleif; reason 2)
Probability Manipulation (via Aleister; reason 1 & 2 & 3; Aleister has probability manipulation?)
Law Manipulation (via Accelerator; reason 1 & 2)
Gravity Manipulation (via Izzard; reason 2 & 3)
Conceptual Manipulation (via Aleister; reason 2 & 3)
Sound Manipulation (via Sound Dragon & Izzard; reason 2 & 3)
Existence Erasure (via Coronzon; reason 3)
Darkness Manipulation (via Niang-Niang; reason 2)
Information Manipulation (via Uiharu; reason 1 & 3)
Telekinesis (via Qiong Qi; reason 3)
Vector Manipulation (reason 1)
Space Manipulation (via Curtana; reason 2 & 3)
Reality Warping (via Izzard; reason 1)
Sleep Manipulation (via Izzard; reason 2)
Death Manipulation (via Izzard; reason 3)
Heat Manipulation (via Izzard; reason 3)
Weight Manipulation (via Aleister; reason 3)
Statistics Reduction (via Aleister; reason 3)
IMO, if something hasn't been stated/shown to directly target someone's internals, it shouldn't count as internal resistance for her. A lot of these are just abilities that characters in the series have demonstrated in one way or another, without any mention of them directly targeting internals (AFAIK).
Felience1
He/Him- 148
- 39
Thank you for giving your opinion. I want to point a few things about that:
I don't understand your point 1 about something being too broad, let me explain myself.
If resistance to Vector Manipulation (example) is on her profile doesn't mean she has resistance to EVERY single application of the ability. She only resist the internal application of such broad abilities.
I think this is the best way to index it because if Accel tries to crush her nerves or apply pressure inside her i think we all agree it wouldn't work. Of course if he throws a building at her that works. That is why i think we should take that into account and specify in this resistance tab that only when use internally a power will be resisted and the ability being to broad doesn't really change that some times it will be resisted and sometimes it won't. That is the reason we are only taking into account when used internally that ability.
My problem with rejecting an ability for being to broad is that we don't properly index the times where that ability is resisted. I think making it clear in the tab that only internally used will be resisted is the most accurate way of indexing Alice's resistances.
Hope i explained myself, i would love to hear your take in this.
I will talk about the specifics now:
Transmutation in his case COULD be internal since his matter can Phase through stuff and start inside the effect. Same for Matter Absorption and Manipulation since it comes from the same.
For Deconstruction. It destroys someone from the inside and has been stated here in NT9:
“It is too late.” Othinus spoke quietly from the ground. “It has already wreaked havoc inside my body. Even if you negate the stake with your right hand, the pain will not vanish. I will not conveniently return to being a mere human.”
Stamina Reduction i don't see how that could be external either. Is energy reserves inside your body.
Body Puppetry in this case comes from a biological source by inserting a substance inside someone.
Microwave i don't know i think XDragnoir asked me to put that one there. I guess is not the same?
Sin manipulation. She uses Qliphothic forces to make people act bad. Is a subtype of unholy manipulation and it works like mind manipulation kind off.
By using the Qliphothic forces, she can succumb the 7 billion humans to make choices they would never make under normal circumstances, such as having them kill each other as part of her ceremony
Madness Manipulation. If it comes from something like perception or biological it happens inside. I can't think of a medium that is not internal but if there is then like i said above works normally.
Corrosion Inducement Aleiszon and Coronzon have it. I leave here what it does so you can form your opinion on that:
Corrosion Inducement (Can grow wings and blow a wind that deteriorates objects it makes contact with[38])
Aleister used it against CRC corroding everything in an area.
Vibration Manipulation. Can be internal, can be external. As said before only the internal part would be resisted.
Empathic Manipulation is very similar to mind manipulation, if one counted as internal i think the other is as internal.
The Illusion Manipulation in this case doesn't happen in the real world. It is not a normal illusion, it happens only inside someone's mind. And things like gamma knife are illusion and target internal organs only.
Electricity Manipulation. Explained at the start but it can do things like stopping your heart or messing with nerves. Both internal.
Fear Manipulation. Really surprised about this disagreement. Your reason 2 doesn't apply since it has been stated that it makes peoples hearts stop. I can go look for the quotes if you want but i don't see where you disagree with this, let me know.
Vector Manipulation. Talked above. If you don't see me talking about an ability. Either is the same thing or i don't have anything to say.
Probability Manipulation. His ST curses you to a live of failure.
Gravity Manipulation. I talked at the start about it, can be used internally. And for all of izzard abilities is the same. They can be used internally and if not is not resisted.
Thanks again for such extensive comment on this, must have taken time. I hope you have time to respond to this. Will count your votes in a bit.
I don't understand your point 1 about something being too broad, let me explain myself.
If resistance to Vector Manipulation (example) is on her profile doesn't mean she has resistance to EVERY single application of the ability. She only resist the internal application of such broad abilities.
I think this is the best way to index it because if Accel tries to crush her nerves or apply pressure inside her i think we all agree it wouldn't work. Of course if he throws a building at her that works. That is why i think we should take that into account and specify in this resistance tab that only when use internally a power will be resisted and the ability being to broad doesn't really change that some times it will be resisted and sometimes it won't. That is the reason we are only taking into account when used internally that ability.
My problem with rejecting an ability for being to broad is that we don't properly index the times where that ability is resisted. I think making it clear in the tab that only internally used will be resisted is the most accurate way of indexing Alice's resistances.
Hope i explained myself, i would love to hear your take in this.
I will talk about the specifics now:
I think affecting someone's Soul and mind is very similar and i am not sure how it could be external.
Transmutation in his case COULD be internal since his matter can Phase through stuff and start inside the effect. Same for Matter Absorption and Manipulation since it comes from the same.
For Deconstruction. It destroys someone from the inside and has been stated here in NT9:
“It is too late.” Othinus spoke quietly from the ground. “It has already wreaked havoc inside my body. Even if you negate the stake with your right hand, the pain will not vanish. I will not conveniently return to being a mere human.”
Stamina Reduction i don't see how that could be external either. Is energy reserves inside your body.
Body Puppetry in this case comes from a biological source by inserting a substance inside someone.
Microwave i don't know i think XDragnoir asked me to put that one there. I guess is not the same?
Sin manipulation. She uses Qliphothic forces to make people act bad. Is a subtype of unholy manipulation and it works like mind manipulation kind off.
By using the Qliphothic forces, she can succumb the 7 billion humans to make choices they would never make under normal circumstances, such as having them kill each other as part of her ceremony
Madness Manipulation. If it comes from something like perception or biological it happens inside. I can't think of a medium that is not internal but if there is then like i said above works normally.
Corrosion Inducement Aleiszon and Coronzon have it. I leave here what it does so you can form your opinion on that:
Corrosion Inducement (Can grow wings and blow a wind that deteriorates objects it makes contact with[38])
Aleister used it against CRC corroding everything in an area.
Vibration Manipulation. Can be internal, can be external. As said before only the internal part would be resisted.
Empathic Manipulation is very similar to mind manipulation, if one counted as internal i think the other is as internal.
The Illusion Manipulation in this case doesn't happen in the real world. It is not a normal illusion, it happens only inside someone's mind. And things like gamma knife are illusion and target internal organs only.
Electricity Manipulation. Explained at the start but it can do things like stopping your heart or messing with nerves. Both internal.
Fear Manipulation. Really surprised about this disagreement. Your reason 2 doesn't apply since it has been stated that it makes peoples hearts stop. I can go look for the quotes if you want but i don't see where you disagree with this, let me know.
Vector Manipulation. Talked above. If you don't see me talking about an ability. Either is the same thing or i don't have anything to say.
Probability Manipulation. His ST curses you to a live of failure.
Gravity Manipulation. I talked at the start about it, can be used internally. And for all of izzard abilities is the same. They can be used internally and if not is not resisted.
Thanks again for such extensive comment on this, must have taken time. I hope you have time to respond to this. Will count your votes in a bit.
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Aseka
He/Him- 728
- 256
This one is externally so it should be not counted.
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Internal vs External would mean does the power is some fashion "Travel" to those aspects of the person to manipulate them or is the power not "Travelling" and instead just directly starts at those things. A vibration power that shakes a person apart that works via seismic ground waves wouldn't be an internal power in my view, but one where if you point and start to directly shake them would.
Felience1
He/Him- 148
- 39
With what powers of the vote count do you agree and with what do you disagree?
Felience1
He/Him- 148
- 39
In this case is not seismic. It is a: "shrill cry that causes matter to vibrate so that a faction was instantly turned to ash"
Edit:
Also, in the quote we got the example of bacteria and bugs being internal (Not from any power, purely scientifical) . Both of those travel and get into her. They do nothing. So i don't think that exactly applies here.
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That's traveling to the target to destroy them. So it wouldn't be resisted in my view.
Off-site talking to Zensum I agree with their conclusions. I don't think Vibration or Vector manipulation would apply unless they specifically target her internal organs, others they'd affect her as normal.
Felience1
He/Him- 148
- 39
As i commented above in the quote about the character the examples the author gives are bacteria, curses and bugs. Bacteria and bugs travel. She explicitly resist those cases too. Don't you think that is prove enough that this is broader than that? Neither bugs or bacteria target only internal and they are resisted. Vector does have internal uses like manipulating someone's electrons in their brains or messing with bioelectricity or blood.
Also, Zensum didn't give their opinion on half the list.
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Aseka
He/Him- 728
- 256
Some applications like Blood, Bioelectricity, and Paralysis Inducement can be counted as internal hax.
- 1,762
- 789
Okie dokie. Well here's what I agree with so far and disagree with. I'm still going through them but let's get most of the bulk out of the way first.
Agree :
Blood Manipulation
Bioelectricity Manipulation
Soul Manipulation
Transmutation
Matter Manipulation
Biological Manipulation
Paralysis Inducement
Microwave Attacks
Electricity Manipulation and EM waves
Mind Manipulation
Deconstruction
Pain Manipulation
Acid Manipulation ( I would rename this to Toxins if such a thing exists if we're going with the inhaling fumes logic )
Body Puppetry
Perception Manipulation
Fear Manipulation
Gravity Manipulation
Sound manipulation ( depending on how it's used )
Possession
Information Manipulation ( depending on how it's used )
Illusion Manipulation
Madness Manipulation ( I'd argue it depends on the method however )
Explosion Manipulation and Shockwave Manipulation
Now for what I disagree with, with minor reasonings attached for clarity :
Disagree :
Teleportation ( While she should be able to prevent something from inside being moved, moving something with a big enough mass shouldn't be something she can stop as teleportation is the delivering of matter to a coordinate, which she exists in. The same should be said for moving her as well. )
Sin manipulation ( Too vague of a concept )
Probability Manipulation ( Not sure where you got this from )
Law Manipulation
Powernull ( Neither of these things are what Kazakiri has, and if her profile has them then it needs to be changed at a later date. )
Life Force Destruction ( Life-Force is more of an abstract element of a persons 'life' than an internal, and as far as I can recall toaru differentiates life force from soul. )
Water Manipulation ( Nephy's moisture magic draws moisture from the entire body, not just internals, so it is a spell that targets both things. She could resist the moisture from her internals being drawn away in theory, but that probably doesn't mean much for the rest of her body. )
Conceptual Manipulation ( Archetype Controller doesn't target internals, but archetypes. Removing the category of 'Kihara' doesn't mean they cease to exist as people. )
Stamina Reduction ( 'Stealing energy' is too broad in terms of where it affects. )
Sealing ( We don't know the mechanics of Fiamma's sealing ; it would however affect both her body and existence, so that's a no go since it's not an internal mechanic )
Existence Erasure ( Breaks everything down. Not just internals, so no )
Telekinesis ( Similar reasoning to teleportation ; moving the body /=/ moving the internals directly. I'd be fine with it if specifying method )
Vector Manipulation ( Accelerator's vector manipulation comes in two forms ; vectors that continue to direct, and vectors that produce one effect. Phenomena accelerator changes aren't still vector manipulation, but becomes absent of his vector manipulation as it lacks his influence after the fact. As an example ; kicking a rock doesn't mean his vector manip is still in effect as it flies, he leaves that to the kinetic energy he charged into it. He can create vector tunnels and shooting, but that's different. tl;dr this reasoning means that whatever Accelerator does inside her doesn't mean she's resistant to his ability, but the result he might try to do inside her after the fact. )
Agree :
Blood Manipulation
Bioelectricity Manipulation
Soul Manipulation
Transmutation
Matter Manipulation
Biological Manipulation
Paralysis Inducement
Microwave Attacks
Electricity Manipulation and EM waves
Mind Manipulation
Deconstruction
Pain Manipulation
Acid Manipulation ( I would rename this to Toxins if such a thing exists if we're going with the inhaling fumes logic )
Body Puppetry
Perception Manipulation
Fear Manipulation
Gravity Manipulation
Sound manipulation ( depending on how it's used )
Possession
Information Manipulation ( depending on how it's used )
Illusion Manipulation
Madness Manipulation ( I'd argue it depends on the method however )
Explosion Manipulation and Shockwave Manipulation
Now for what I disagree with, with minor reasonings attached for clarity :
Disagree :
Teleportation ( While she should be able to prevent something from inside being moved, moving something with a big enough mass shouldn't be something she can stop as teleportation is the delivering of matter to a coordinate, which she exists in. The same should be said for moving her as well. )
Sin manipulation ( Too vague of a concept )
Probability Manipulation ( Not sure where you got this from )
Law Manipulation
Powernull ( Neither of these things are what Kazakiri has, and if her profile has them then it needs to be changed at a later date. )
Life Force Destruction ( Life-Force is more of an abstract element of a persons 'life' than an internal, and as far as I can recall toaru differentiates life force from soul. )
Water Manipulation ( Nephy's moisture magic draws moisture from the entire body, not just internals, so it is a spell that targets both things. She could resist the moisture from her internals being drawn away in theory, but that probably doesn't mean much for the rest of her body. )
Conceptual Manipulation ( Archetype Controller doesn't target internals, but archetypes. Removing the category of 'Kihara' doesn't mean they cease to exist as people. )
Stamina Reduction ( 'Stealing energy' is too broad in terms of where it affects. )
Sealing ( We don't know the mechanics of Fiamma's sealing ; it would however affect both her body and existence, so that's a no go since it's not an internal mechanic )
Existence Erasure ( Breaks everything down. Not just internals, so no )
Telekinesis ( Similar reasoning to teleportation ; moving the body /=/ moving the internals directly. I'd be fine with it if specifying method )
Vector Manipulation ( Accelerator's vector manipulation comes in two forms ; vectors that continue to direct, and vectors that produce one effect. Phenomena accelerator changes aren't still vector manipulation, but becomes absent of his vector manipulation as it lacks his influence after the fact. As an example ; kicking a rock doesn't mean his vector manip is still in effect as it flies, he leaves that to the kinetic energy he charged into it. He can create vector tunnels and shooting, but that's different. tl;dr this reasoning means that whatever Accelerator does inside her doesn't mean she's resistant to his ability, but the result he might try to do inside her after the fact. )
Felience1
He/Him- 148
- 39
It is there, search for antimagic.
Do you want me to debate or are you just giving your opinion and done?
Will count votes in a bit, thank you for the input.
- 1,762
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I'd like you to tell me where she gets it from, but that's about it.
Felience1
He/Him- 148
- 39
Sure:
- Magic Cancellation and Negation: The presence of Fuse Kazakiri, a mass of AIM and an artificial angel, causes a huge pressure on the bodies of all magicians in the surrounding area (which can be an entire city). Her presence warps the several “layers” of the world piled on top of each other, and blows away the magical laws as it continuously grows. This warping of the world's magic laws causes considerable and continuous internal damage to the blood vessels and nerves of magicians.[4][5]
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Alright, I'll be making a CRT later to remove that and have it reworked into something else. I'll get to the rest of the list later tomorrow.
Felience1
He/Him- 148
- 39
I think it is fine, but anyways. Also this:
and as an artificial angel
and as an artificial angel
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Felience1
He/Him- 148
- 39
Sure, then what about all of the ones where Zensum didn't talk about? What do i do with those ones?
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Might be better to make a dedicated topic on them and apply what's accepted or we can go over them a second time I guess.
Felience1
He/Him- 148
- 39
Qawsedf234 disagrees:
Heat Manipulation from Aleister (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell and Zensum)
Death Manipulation from Aureolus (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell and Zensum)
Sleep Manipulation from Aureolus (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell and Zensum)
Reality Warping from Aureolus (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell and Zensum)
Corrosion inducement from Coronzon (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, FantaRin_The_First Neutral: Axscell Disagree: Zensum, Aseka)
Memory Manipulation from Aureolus (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell Disagree: Zensum)
Space Manipulation with Curtana (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell and Zensum)
Empathic Manipulation from Nepthys (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Neutral: Axscell Disagree: Zensum)
Vibration Manipulation from Nepthys (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Neutral: Axscell Disagree: Zensum)
Explosion Manipulation and Shockwave Manipulation from Ollerus (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Zensum)
Madness Manipulation (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Neutral: Axscell Disagree: Zensum)
Illusion Manipulation with Spiritual Tripping (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Neutral: Axscell Disagree: Zensum)
Qawsedf234 agrees:
Blood Manipulation from accelerator (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Accelerate420, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Blood, Axscell and Zensum)
Bioelectricity Manipulation from accelerator (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Accelerate420, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell and Zensum)
Mind Manipulation from Grimoires (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka and Zensum, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell)
Electricity Manipulation and EM waves from Misaka (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First and Zensum Disagree: Axscell)
Fear Manipulation from Dainsleif (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka and Zensum, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell)
Matter Manipulation from Kakine (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First and Zensum)
Transmutation from Kakine (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First and Zensum Neutral: Axscell)
Soul Manipulation from Aleister or High Priest (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First and Zensum Neutral: Axscell)
Radiation Manipulation from Aleister (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka and Zensum, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell)
Teleportation from sources like Kuroko (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell Neutral: Zensum)
No opinion Zensum Resistances:
Probability Manipulation from Aleister ST (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell)
Law Manipulation from Accelerator (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell)
Gravity Manipulation from Aureolus. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell)
Conceptual Manipulation from Archetype Controller. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell)
Sound manipulation from four eyed dragon or Aureolus. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell)
Existence Erasure from Coronzon's ceremony. (Agree: Felience1, Acertainbcplayer, XDragnoir, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell)
Darkness Manipulation from Niang-Niang shadow blades. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell)
Information Manipulation from Uiharu or Kreutune. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell)
Telekinesis via Qiong Qi. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell)
Matter Absorption from Kakine (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First)
Deconstruction from Fiamma or Etzali (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First)
Stamina Reduction from flame dragon. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First)
Sealing from Fiamma. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First)
Body Puppetry from Qliphah. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First)
Microwave Attacks from fran. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First)
Sin manipulation from Coronzon. (Agree: Felience1, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, Neutral: XDragnoir, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell)
Poison Manipulation
Probability Manipulation from Aleister ST (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First)
Powernull from Kazakiri (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell)
Biological Manipulation from Misaki or Alfar (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell)
Life Force Destruction from Coronzon roar or Aradia who can manipulate life too. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell)
Water Manipulation via moisture absorption of Nepthys. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell)
Pain Manipulation from fiamma, it comes from grimoire, Stiyl has it too. Unreapaddy has Pashupata spell too. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell)
Paralysis Inducement from misaka or Niang-Niang shadow blades. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell)
Possession from Aiwass or Elza. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell)
Acid Manipulation via Acid (random esper), if breathed it damages lungs. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell)
Perception Manipulation from Loki. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell)
Heat Manipulation from Aleister (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell and Zensum)
Death Manipulation from Aureolus (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell and Zensum)
Sleep Manipulation from Aureolus (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell and Zensum)
Reality Warping from Aureolus (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell and Zensum)
Corrosion inducement from Coronzon (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, FantaRin_The_First Neutral: Axscell Disagree: Zensum, Aseka)
Memory Manipulation from Aureolus (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell Disagree: Zensum)
Space Manipulation with Curtana (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell and Zensum)
Empathic Manipulation from Nepthys (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Neutral: Axscell Disagree: Zensum)
Vibration Manipulation from Nepthys (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Neutral: Axscell Disagree: Zensum)
Explosion Manipulation and Shockwave Manipulation from Ollerus (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Zensum)
Madness Manipulation (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Neutral: Axscell Disagree: Zensum)
Illusion Manipulation with Spiritual Tripping (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Neutral: Axscell Disagree: Zensum)
Qawsedf234 agrees:
Blood Manipulation from accelerator (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Accelerate420, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Blood, Axscell and Zensum)
Bioelectricity Manipulation from accelerator (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Accelerate420, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell and Zensum)
Mind Manipulation from Grimoires (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka and Zensum, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell)
Electricity Manipulation and EM waves from Misaka (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First and Zensum Disagree: Axscell)
Fear Manipulation from Dainsleif (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka and Zensum, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell)
Matter Manipulation from Kakine (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First and Zensum)
Transmutation from Kakine (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First and Zensum Neutral: Axscell)
Soul Manipulation from Aleister or High Priest (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First and Zensum Neutral: Axscell)
Radiation Manipulation from Aleister (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka and Zensum, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell)
Teleportation from sources like Kuroko (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell Neutral: Zensum)
No opinion Zensum Resistances:
Probability Manipulation from Aleister ST (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell)
Law Manipulation from Accelerator (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell)
Gravity Manipulation from Aureolus. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell)
Conceptual Manipulation from Archetype Controller. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell)
Sound manipulation from four eyed dragon or Aureolus. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell)
Existence Erasure from Coronzon's ceremony. (Agree: Felience1, Acertainbcplayer, XDragnoir, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell)
Darkness Manipulation from Niang-Niang shadow blades. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell)
Information Manipulation from Uiharu or Kreutune. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell)
Telekinesis via Qiong Qi. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First Disagree: Axscell)
Matter Absorption from Kakine (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First)
Deconstruction from Fiamma or Etzali (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First)
Stamina Reduction from flame dragon. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First)
Sealing from Fiamma. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First)
Body Puppetry from Qliphah. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First)
Microwave Attacks from fran. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First)
Sin manipulation from Coronzon. (Agree: Felience1, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, Neutral: XDragnoir, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell)
Poison Manipulation
Probability Manipulation from Aleister ST (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First)
Powernull from Kazakiri (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell)
Biological Manipulation from Misaki or Alfar (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell)
Life Force Destruction from Coronzon roar or Aradia who can manipulate life too. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell)
Water Manipulation via moisture absorption of Nepthys. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell)
Pain Manipulation from fiamma, it comes from grimoire, Stiyl has it too. Unreapaddy has Pashupata spell too. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell)
Paralysis Inducement from misaka or Niang-Niang shadow blades. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell)
Possession from Aiwass or Elza. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell)
Acid Manipulation via Acid (random esper), if breathed it damages lungs. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell)
Perception Manipulation from Loki. (Agree: Felience1, XDragnoir, Acertainbcplayer, Aseka, FantaRin_The_First, Axscell)
Last edited:
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L on my part. I'll try to get around to it on Thursday or Friday. Apologies for all the delays on my end.
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Almost forgot I said I'd comment on the other ones later, so here's my stance on the rest of them:
Disagree
Probability Manipulation from Aleister ST
Law Manipulation from Accelerator
Gravity Manipulation from Aureolus.
Conceptual Manipulation from Archetype Controller.
Sound manipulation from four eyed dragon or Aureolus.
Existence Erasure from Coronzon's ceremony.
Information Manipulation from Uiharu or Kreutune.
Telekinesis via Qiong Qi.
Deconstruction from Fiamma or Etzali
Stamina Reduction from flame dragon.
Water Manipulation via moisture absorption of Nepthys.
Sealing from Fiamma.
Microwave Attacks from fran.
Sin manipulation from Coronzon.
Powernull from Kazakiri
Life Force Destruction from Coronzon roar or Aradia who can manipulate life too.
Perception Manipulation from Loki.
Agree
Darkness Manipulation from Niang-Niang shadow blades. (I think this is metaphorical and not actually thing but its on the profile so w/e)
Poison Manipulation
Matter Absorption from Kakine
Biological Manipulation from Misaki or Alfar
Paralysis Inducement from misaka or Niang-Niang shadow blades.
Acid Manipulation via Acid (random esper), if breathed it damages lungs.
Pain Manipulation from fiamma, it comes from grimoire, Stiyl has it too. Unreapaddy has Pashupata spell too. (These abilities seem to cause pain by causing physical internal damage to bone structure rather than controlling pain perception itself, but its on the profile so w/e)
Body Puppetry from Qliphah. (I'll agree with Body Puppetry and Possession since they are internal abilities and Qliphah can damage the host through it, otherwise its not really an internal damage ability inherently)
Possession from Aiwass or Elza.
Disagree
Probability Manipulation from Aleister ST
Law Manipulation from Accelerator
Gravity Manipulation from Aureolus.
Conceptual Manipulation from Archetype Controller.
Sound manipulation from four eyed dragon or Aureolus.
Existence Erasure from Coronzon's ceremony.
Information Manipulation from Uiharu or Kreutune.
Telekinesis via Qiong Qi.
Deconstruction from Fiamma or Etzali
Stamina Reduction from flame dragon.
Water Manipulation via moisture absorption of Nepthys.
Sealing from Fiamma.
Microwave Attacks from fran.
Sin manipulation from Coronzon.
Powernull from Kazakiri
Life Force Destruction from Coronzon roar or Aradia who can manipulate life too.
Perception Manipulation from Loki.
Agree
Darkness Manipulation from Niang-Niang shadow blades. (I think this is metaphorical and not actually thing but its on the profile so w/e)
Poison Manipulation
Matter Absorption from Kakine
Biological Manipulation from Misaki or Alfar
Paralysis Inducement from misaka or Niang-Niang shadow blades.
Acid Manipulation via Acid (random esper), if breathed it damages lungs.
Pain Manipulation from fiamma, it comes from grimoire, Stiyl has it too. Unreapaddy has Pashupata spell too. (These abilities seem to cause pain by causing physical internal damage to bone structure rather than controlling pain perception itself, but its on the profile so w/e)
Body Puppetry from Qliphah. (I'll agree with Body Puppetry and Possession since they are internal abilities and Qliphah can damage the host through it, otherwise its not really an internal damage ability inherently)
Possession from Aiwass or Elza.
Felience1
He/Him- 148
- 39
Thank you for the comment. I wanted to say a couple of things so here i go:
Archetype Manipulation is the one which can manipulates concept of psychology of human mind, it should be internal hax. As pointed by Aseka
Probability Manipulation from Aleister ST is said that it curses you to a live of failure. Since it works very similar to a curse it should be resisted because kamachi told us that curses are resisted.
For Deconstruction. It destroys someone from the inside and has been stated here in NT9:
“It is too late.” Othinus spoke quietly from the ground. “It has already wreaked havoc inside my body. Even if you negate the stake with your right hand, the pain will not vanish. I will not conveniently return to being a mere human.”
Water Manipulation works by absorbing the moisture of a body. I think that is internal.
I don't know how life force can be external? Would you mind explaining what is your reasoning with this?
Powernull from kazakiri also does internal damage to magicians. I think it was very similar to a esper using magic (don't remember if it was said it is the same or it just works similar).
Perception Manipulation was also used by Kihara Ransuu by using chemicals that manipulate the brain to see things that are not real. That maybe is more internal to you? I think either counts.
The rest are straightforward so either you think they count or not. Not much argument to make.
I would like everyone else's votes and arguments to be taken into account.
Archetype Manipulation is the one which can manipulates concept of psychology of human mind, it should be internal hax. As pointed by Aseka
Probability Manipulation from Aleister ST is said that it curses you to a live of failure. Since it works very similar to a curse it should be resisted because kamachi told us that curses are resisted.
For Deconstruction. It destroys someone from the inside and has been stated here in NT9:
“It is too late.” Othinus spoke quietly from the ground. “It has already wreaked havoc inside my body. Even if you negate the stake with your right hand, the pain will not vanish. I will not conveniently return to being a mere human.”
Water Manipulation works by absorbing the moisture of a body. I think that is internal.
I don't know how life force can be external? Would you mind explaining what is your reasoning with this?
Powernull from kazakiri also does internal damage to magicians. I think it was very similar to a esper using magic (don't remember if it was said it is the same or it just works similar).
Perception Manipulation was also used by Kihara Ransuu by using chemicals that manipulate the brain to see things that are not real. That maybe is more internal to you? I think either counts.
The rest are straightforward so either you think they count or not. Not much argument to make.
I would like everyone else's votes and arguments to be taken into account.
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Archetype Manipulation
This is more so manipulation of concepts and categories. Creating them, sending them into the world and destroying them. The controller doesn't directly manipulate the brain or mind.
Deconstruction
One has to stab someone's body with the fairy stake for its effects to take place.
Water Manipulation
Nephthys gathers all water/moisture in her area of effect, that just also includes the water inside one's body.
Lifeforce
Coronzon roars and that attack shakes the body of a person and snuffs life force inside.
Powerull
The powernull is really just a deterrent at this stage. Magicians can still use their magic if they want too. It's just the added "spell pressure" from the appearance of Kazakiri/Artificial Heaven means using magic crushes the body uniformly including skin, organs and prevents proper mana circulation.
Probability Manipulation
Hmmm, I can agree with it if you put it that way.
Perception Manipulation
I think Ransuu's version is fine.
Aseka
He/Him- 728
- 256
It is a fairy spell so it must be stabbed with.
Coronzon's roar is externally.
Magic Cancellation from Kazakidi also external influence.
Aseka
He/Him- 728
- 256
We categorize this within Toaru's ability, so mechanism is in fact necessary to index it.
Felience1
He/Him- 148
- 39
Sure, index it. It isn't relevant here I think.
