FantaRin_The_First
Username Only- 4,053
- 2,449
Eh. After a bit of thinking, I'll share the same opinion as Noir. I.e, agree to all ('sides maybe Sin Manip). Peps have to remember, tho, that all of this comes attached with a possibly rating.
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[Toaru] Alice Anotherbible's Resistances
- Thread starter XDragnoir
- Start date
- 1,755
- 784
Hmmm. There are several haxes on here that don't make sense and don't even exist for the characters you're referring too (Kazakiri's as an example is not law manip). I'm going to go through all of these and say what I agree or don't agree with, but for the record my metric is based on what I said earlier on how abilities seem to interact with Alice ; if it is an attack that doesn't target the interior specifically or has a specified directed effect inside her, then it's a no go.
An example of this using what you provided above is sealing. Sealing has nothing to do with affecting her interior, and we also don't even understand the mechanics of Fiamma's sealing in the first place. That's an automatic disagree as it affects the entire body/existence itself and not just the interior, and we know that Alice can be affected by exterior stimuli very easily. A counter argument to this might be 'soul manipulation is linked to sealing' but I think there's a difference between sealing someone somewhere with everything and just trying to rip their soul out. Two different methodologies affecting far more things.
Before I go into this, just to make sure, we will be putting a clause in resistances that these are Interior only , right?
Felience1
He/Him- 61
- 22
Yes, she will have:
possibly resistant to (insert power) when used internally.
For example: Explosion manipulation, if it explodes outside of her works. if it starts inside that's a no.
I hope this clears your doubt.
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Felience1
He/Him- 61
- 22
Oh that's right, XDragnoir said she also has law manip and i didn't check. Who else has law manip? Accel plat?
Edit: Reading all of Kazakiri's page i see where XDragnoir thought she had it. I think she should but that is not for this thread so lets go with Accel or other character.
Edit: Reading all of Kazakiri's page i see where XDragnoir thought she had it. I think she should but that is not for this thread so lets go with Accel or other character.
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- 273
- 155
I'm basing my agreements on the fact that either the ability has been stated or shown to be directly applied to target internals, bypassing the exterior altogether, or the ability targets internals by default, ignoring the exterior.
My disagreements are based on the following:
1. The ability is too broad and has many other applications for it to be applied as a blanket resistance for her internals (e.g. Vector Manipulation)
2. The ability has not been stated or shown to be applied directly to someone's internals.
3. The ability targets more than just the internals, ignoring the exterior.
Agree with:
Poison Manipulation
Blood Manipulation
Bioelectricity Manipulation
Radiation Manipulation
Mind Manipulation
Biological Manipulation
Powernull
Life Force Destruction
Water Manipulation
Pain Manipulation
Paralysis Inducement
Acid Manipulation
Perception Manipulation
Teleportation
Possession
Memory Manipulation
Not sure about:
Soul Manipulation (via Aleister & HP; reason 1 and 3)
Transmutation (via Kakine; reason 2 & 3)
Matter Manipulation (via Kakine; reason 2 & 3)
Matter Absorption (via Kakine; reason 2 & 3)
Deconstruction (via Fiamma; reason 2 & 3; don't really remember Kakine having this tbh)
Stamina Reduction (via Flame Dragon; reason 3)
Sealing (via Fiamma; reason 2)
Body Puppetry (via Qliphah; reason 3)
Microwave Attack (via Fran; isn't this just radiation?)
Sin Manipulation (via Coronzon; what exactly does this entail?)
Madness Manipulation (depends on the medium)
Corrosion Inducement (via Coronzon; don't remember this being a thing)
Vibration Manipulation (via Nephthys; did Nephthys ever directly target internals with this?)
Empathic Manipulation (via Nephthys; same as above)
Illusion Manipulation (via Spiritual Tripping; reason 2)
Disagree with:
Electricity Manipulation (via Misaka; reason 1)
Fear Manipulation (via Dainsleif; reason 2)
Probability Manipulation (via Aleister; reason 1 & 2 & 3; Aleister has probability manipulation?)
Law Manipulation (via Accelerator; reason 1 & 2)
Gravity Manipulation (via Izzard; reason 2 & 3)
Conceptual Manipulation (via Aleister; reason 2 & 3)
Sound Manipulation (via Sound Dragon & Izzard; reason 2 & 3)
Existence Erasure (via Coronzon; reason 3)
Darkness Manipulation (via Niang-Niang; reason 2)
Information Manipulation (via Uiharu; reason 1 & 3)
Telekinesis (via Qiong Qi; reason 3)
Vector Manipulation (reason 1)
Space Manipulation (via Curtana; reason 2 & 3)
Reality Warping (via Izzard; reason 1)
Sleep Manipulation (via Izzard; reason 2)
Death Manipulation (via Izzard; reason 3)
Heat Manipulation (via Izzard; reason 3)
Weight Manipulation (via Aleister; reason 3)
Statistics Reduction (via Aleister; reason 3)
IMO, if something hasn't been stated/shown to directly target someone's internals, it shouldn't count as internal resistance for her. A lot of these are just abilities that characters in the series have demonstrated in one way or another, without any mention of them directly targeting internals (AFAIK).
Felience1
He/Him- 61
- 22
Thank you for giving your opinion. I want to point a few things about that:
I don't understand your point 1 about something being too broad, let me explain myself.
If resistance to Vector Manipulation (example) is on her profile doesn't mean she has resistance to EVERY single application of the ability. She only resist the internal application of such broad abilities.
I think this is the best way to index it because if Accel tries to crush her nerves or apply pressure inside her i think we all agree it wouldn't work. Of course if he throws a building at her that works. That is why i think we should take that into account and specify in this resistance tab that only when use internally a power will be resisted and the ability being to broad doesn't really change that some times it will be resisted and sometimes it won't. That is the reason we are only taking into account when used internally that ability.
My problem with rejecting an ability for being to broad is that we don't properly index the times where that ability is resisted. I think making it clear in the tab that only internally used will be resisted is the most accurate way of indexing Alice's resistances.
Hope i explained myself, i would love to hear your take in this.
I will talk about the specifics now:
Transmutation in his case COULD be internal since his matter can Phase through stuff and start inside the effect. Same for Matter Absorption and Manipulation since it comes from the same.
For Deconstruction. It destroys someone from the inside and has been stated here in NT9:
“It is too late.” Othinus spoke quietly from the ground. “It has already wreaked havoc inside my body. Even if you negate the stake with your right hand, the pain will not vanish. I will not conveniently return to being a mere human.”
Stamina Reduction i don't see how that could be external either. Is energy reserves inside your body.
Body Puppetry in this case comes from a biological source by inserting a substance inside someone.
Microwave i don't know i think XDragnoir asked me to put that one there. I guess is not the same?
Sin manipulation. She uses Qliphothic forces to make people act bad. Is a subtype of unholy manipulation and it works like mind manipulation kind off.
By using the Qliphothic forces, she can succumb the 7 billion humans to make choices they would never make under normal circumstances, such as having them kill each other as part of her ceremony
Madness Manipulation. If it comes from something like perception or biological it happens inside. I can't think of a medium that is not internal but if there is then like i said above works normally.
Corrosion Inducement Aleiszon and Coronzon have it. I leave here what it does so you can form your opinion on that:
Corrosion Inducement (Can grow wings and blow a wind that deteriorates objects it makes contact with[38])
Aleister used it against CRC corroding everything in an area.
Vibration Manipulation. Can be internal, can be external. As said before only the internal part would be resisted.
Empathic Manipulation is very similar to mind manipulation, if one counted as internal i think the other is as internal.
The Illusion Manipulation in this case doesn't happen in the real world. It is not a normal illusion, it happens only inside someone's mind. And things like gamma knife are illusion and target internal organs only.
Electricity Manipulation. Explained at the start but it can do things like stopping your heart or messing with nerves. Both internal.
Fear Manipulation. Really surprised about this disagreement. Your reason 2 doesn't apply since it has been stated that it makes peoples hearts stop. I can go look for the quotes if you want but i don't see where you disagree with this, let me know.
Vector Manipulation. Talked above. If you don't see me talking about an ability. Either is the same thing or i don't have anything to say.
Probability Manipulation. His ST curses you to a live of failure.
Gravity Manipulation. I talked at the start about it, can be used internally. And for all of izzard abilities is the same. They can be used internally and if not is not resisted.
Thanks again for such extensive comment on this, must have taken time. I hope you have time to respond to this. Will count your votes in a bit.
I don't understand your point 1 about something being too broad, let me explain myself.
If resistance to Vector Manipulation (example) is on her profile doesn't mean she has resistance to EVERY single application of the ability. She only resist the internal application of such broad abilities.
I think this is the best way to index it because if Accel tries to crush her nerves or apply pressure inside her i think we all agree it wouldn't work. Of course if he throws a building at her that works. That is why i think we should take that into account and specify in this resistance tab that only when use internally a power will be resisted and the ability being to broad doesn't really change that some times it will be resisted and sometimes it won't. That is the reason we are only taking into account when used internally that ability.
My problem with rejecting an ability for being to broad is that we don't properly index the times where that ability is resisted. I think making it clear in the tab that only internally used will be resisted is the most accurate way of indexing Alice's resistances.
Hope i explained myself, i would love to hear your take in this.
I will talk about the specifics now:
I think affecting someone's Soul and mind is very similar and i am not sure how it could be external.
Transmutation in his case COULD be internal since his matter can Phase through stuff and start inside the effect. Same for Matter Absorption and Manipulation since it comes from the same.
For Deconstruction. It destroys someone from the inside and has been stated here in NT9:
“It is too late.” Othinus spoke quietly from the ground. “It has already wreaked havoc inside my body. Even if you negate the stake with your right hand, the pain will not vanish. I will not conveniently return to being a mere human.”
Stamina Reduction i don't see how that could be external either. Is energy reserves inside your body.
Body Puppetry in this case comes from a biological source by inserting a substance inside someone.
Microwave i don't know i think XDragnoir asked me to put that one there. I guess is not the same?
Sin manipulation. She uses Qliphothic forces to make people act bad. Is a subtype of unholy manipulation and it works like mind manipulation kind off.
By using the Qliphothic forces, she can succumb the 7 billion humans to make choices they would never make under normal circumstances, such as having them kill each other as part of her ceremony
Madness Manipulation. If it comes from something like perception or biological it happens inside. I can't think of a medium that is not internal but if there is then like i said above works normally.
Corrosion Inducement Aleiszon and Coronzon have it. I leave here what it does so you can form your opinion on that:
Corrosion Inducement (Can grow wings and blow a wind that deteriorates objects it makes contact with[38])
Aleister used it against CRC corroding everything in an area.
Vibration Manipulation. Can be internal, can be external. As said before only the internal part would be resisted.
Empathic Manipulation is very similar to mind manipulation, if one counted as internal i think the other is as internal.
The Illusion Manipulation in this case doesn't happen in the real world. It is not a normal illusion, it happens only inside someone's mind. And things like gamma knife are illusion and target internal organs only.
Electricity Manipulation. Explained at the start but it can do things like stopping your heart or messing with nerves. Both internal.
Fear Manipulation. Really surprised about this disagreement. Your reason 2 doesn't apply since it has been stated that it makes peoples hearts stop. I can go look for the quotes if you want but i don't see where you disagree with this, let me know.
Vector Manipulation. Talked above. If you don't see me talking about an ability. Either is the same thing or i don't have anything to say.
Probability Manipulation. His ST curses you to a live of failure.
Gravity Manipulation. I talked at the start about it, can be used internally. And for all of izzard abilities is the same. They can be used internally and if not is not resisted.
Thanks again for such extensive comment on this, must have taken time. I hope you have time to respond to this. Will count your votes in a bit.
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Aseka
He/Him- 711
- 251
This one is externally so it should be not counted.
- 20,406
- 17,270
Internal vs External would mean does the power is some fashion "Travel" to those aspects of the person to manipulate them or is the power not "Travelling" and instead just directly starts at those things. A vibration power that shakes a person apart that works via seismic ground waves wouldn't be an internal power in my view, but one where if you point and start to directly shake them would.
