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To complete the HST inconclusive: Ichigo vs McQueen
- Thread starter ShiroyashaGinSan
- Start date
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Granted, but a Zanpaktou is still basically a weapon,would the stand target a sword or the person holding the sword, a Zanpaktou's spirit always resides within the Shinigami and I'm fairly certain Zangetsu said it himself that he is an extension of Ichigo. All of Zangetsu's power is derived from Ichigo.
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Zangetsu is a pseudo-Hollow spirit made out of numerous souls. It is technically it's own soul, it mixed into Misaki's soul and then was passed to Ichigo. So Zangetsu is it's own soul but blended with Ichigo's.
So like, if you killed Ichigo then Zangetsu dies, but if you kill Zangetsu then Ichigo would be fine, except he loses his Hollow/Shinigami powers again.
So like, if you killed Ichigo then Zangetsu dies, but if you kill Zangetsu then Ichigo would be fine, except he loses his Hollow/Shinigami powers again.
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Does that count though? Like if you grabbed someone's arm and used that arm to kill someone, it would still be you who killed the person. Killing HtH would still kill Ichigo because a stand and their user takes the same damage each other did.
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I have no idea, I've never read JJBA. If you go through my comments, I haven't made a vote nor leaned to a side. I'm just responding to comments that are misinformed or wrong about Ichigo to help others reach a conclusion.
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How HtH works is that the damage replicated goes to a target and not specifically what hit him. For example if someone shot Thunder with a gun. The damage would appear on the shooter and not the weapon. Even though Zangetsu is alive,Thunder wouldn't know this since it looks like a sword and HtH's target would still be Ichigo.
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But is it technically it's own soul? And iirc White was formed from a single soul.
I don't think Zangetsu has any recollection of his time as White. If White attached itself to Ichigo's forming soul, wouldn't that result in a complete merging? Even if White's base is a different soul that doesn't mean Ichigo's soul is an amalgamation of multiple souls. He has one soul and his shinigami heritage pulls pulls from both his hollow and quincy sides to manifest his Zanpaktou Spirit.
I don't think Zangetsu has any recollection of his time as White. If White attached itself to Ichigo's forming soul, wouldn't that result in a complete merging? Even if White's base is a different soul that doesn't mean Ichigo's soul is an amalgamation of multiple souls. He has one soul and his shinigami heritage pulls pulls from both his hollow and quincy sides to manifest his Zanpaktou Spirit.
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So because Thunder doesn't know it goes to Ichigo? Then is Thunder able to reflect damage to anyone even if they didn't hit him? Cause thats technically what you're saying.
And yes, Zangetsu is his own soul that was made with numerous Shinigami souls, Aizen and Oetsu state this. Ichigo's soule isnt a complete merging since Ichigo is in control, Zangetsu is attached to it. He has one soul and Zangetsu's soul is attached to it.
And yes, Zangetsu is his own soul that was made with numerous Shinigami souls, Aizen and Oetsu state this. Ichigo's soule isnt a complete merging since Ichigo is in control, Zangetsu is attached to it. He has one soul and Zangetsu's soul is attached to it.
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Yes, HtH does not work specifically on what hits him it gives the damage the user takes onto the target. For example when Thunder tried drowning himself, the target began to suffocate. Even if he died by jumping in a volcano or some other way that Ichigo wasn't involved in, Ichigo would still be killed because he dies when Thunder does.
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Sounds very reasonable to me then, I think you could only argue resurrection for Ichigo in the way Zangetsu revived him at this point then.
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Could TM kill himself before Ichigo stabs him? And is Ichigo able to destroy the stand itself after all?
@IMade
u right about White's origins, went back and re-read. Though I still see no reason it wouldn't be a complete merging. A Shinigami's power is a part of their soul, yes it has it's own personality and can manifest, but it is their soul nonetheless. It will always return.
@IMade
u right about White's origins, went back and re-read. Though I still see no reason it wouldn't be a complete merging. A Shinigami's power is a part of their soul, yes it has it's own personality and can manifest, but it is their soul nonetheless. It will always return.
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...I feel like Ichigo would try to save him if he saw TM attempting suicide...
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The feat being called ressurection is being counted as Regenerationn right now.
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Does HtH apply to the stand as well (or is that the stand itself? JJBA ignorance here) What happens if Ichigo breaks it?
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@Link Either way Ichigo would die. If TM managged to commit suicide then Ichigo would die. Highway to Hell appear's on the target's body and if Ichigo attacked it then Ichigo would also die because a wound on a stand is a wound on a stand user and destruction of HtH would result in destruction of Ichigo. Hth also appears after the ability has activated so Ichigo wouldn't be able to hit it until he hit Thunder and it appears on his body. By this point he would be dead since Ichigo's AP>>>> Thunder's durability and a single attack would utterly obliterate Thunder resulting in Ichigo being obliterated as well.
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Ichigo wasn't dead though. In the video he still hears Orihime and even regenerates because of it so he can protect her.
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If he wasn't dead. then Orihime would have just healed him.
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I believe this established Orihime's limits:
"Those who have allowed too much time to pass since receiving fatal injuries, those whose souls that have been completely extinguished, and those who haven't even left a trace of themselves in the first place are all the likes of which Sōten Kisshun is helpless against." CFYOW Prologue 2
iirc she got there right after or just before Ulquiorra blew a hole in his chest meaning healing him should have been within her limits if he was still alive.
"Those who have allowed too much time to pass since receiving fatal injuries, those whose souls that have been completely extinguished, and those who haven't even left a trace of themselves in the first place are all the likes of which Sōten Kisshun is helpless against." CFYOW Prologue 2
iirc she got there right after or just before Ulquiorra blew a hole in his chest meaning healing him should have been within her limits if he was still alive.
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make a crt for it, idk if there's a rule against using what's not in the profile
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lol just came here from making an unrelated one.
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kek
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I'm nodding off soon, so I'll leave that to the experienced seniors.
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I won't vote yet, but I will clarify some things about HtH.
1) Unlike most stands, HtH is more along the lines of a technique then a being. Even if Ichigo managed to destroy a propeller or 2, it wont get rid of the stand or its effects
2) HtH transfered its effects to Kiss at one point, so yes, it can effect souls. If we are already equalizing stands to spiritual energy then it goes both ways
3) HtH renues damage. So long as you are under the effects of HtH, all damage gets transfered, regardless of when or how it happened. For example, it even transfered the scars from long ago
1) Unlike most stands, HtH is more along the lines of a technique then a being. Even if Ichigo managed to destroy a propeller or 2, it wont get rid of the stand or its effects
2) HtH transfered its effects to Kiss at one point, so yes, it can effect souls. If we are already equalizing stands to spiritual energy then it goes both ways
3) HtH renues damage. So long as you are under the effects of HtH, all damage gets transfered, regardless of when or how it happened. For example, it even transfered the scars from long ago
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icchigo is already dead
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Souls can die in Bleach, just look at the multiple shinigami that have died over the course of the series. If the Ichigo having ressurection goes through then Ichigo wins but if it doesn't then it's incon due to both of them dying.
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This^DragonEmperor23 said:
Wait until the CRT goes through, and then finish this match.
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Now that I think about it, wouldn't it still be inconclusive even if Ichigo did have ressurection? Hear me out on this one. For Ichigo having ressurection, the feat is that White took control of Ichigo's corpse and regenerated the damage to it while bringing him back to life. This fight is Ichigo vs Thunder in their strongest forms. This mean Ichigo has Moon level attack potency and Thunder has street level durability. SBA means that Ichigo is willing to kill so he would attack Thunder with intent to kill. Wouldn't an attack of that level obliterate Thunder to the point where there would be nothing left? This damage would then be replicated to Ichigo and his body would be obliterated too. What exactly would White even do in this situation? There isn't even a body left for it to revive and I think that they share the body so it would die too if the body was completely destroyed. So in summary, this would be inconclusive because White's never been shown to be able to ressurect Ichigo from nothing so they would both die and Ichigo would not be able to come back to life.
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wait why would ichigo kill him in the first place? Cant he just knock him out. Ichigo being Ichigo has no reason to straight up kill him.
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They are both willing to kill according to SBA.
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Oh, nvm then.
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Actually, considering the AP gap Ichigo's Reiatsu would suffocate and paralyze TM. And if I'm reading TM's page correctly, then that would also paralyze and suffocate Ichigo, making the fight a no-go until TM dies from suffocation, and Ichigo follows.
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I believe so. So, Ichigo FRA.
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