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Tinkaton vs Erza

The_Pink_God

She/Her
2,408
626
Speed equal
10 meters
X784 Erza and tinkaton will be used
6-C weapons and powers are restricted

Vs
 
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Use Deku's actual tag please: Izuku Midoriya (Deku)
 
Tinkaton already has a profile? Huh. Anyways, Tinkaton has Higher AP(I think?), outspeeds and Deku doesn't seem to resist anything that Tinkaton can do, so I'm voting Tinkaton for now.
 
Well, Deku has a minor AP advantage (>781 MT vs 565) and better skill, but considering how Tinkaton has stat reduction, status effect inducement, minor healing via Draining Kiss, and can easily snipe Deku out of the sky similar to what happens to Corvinknights.
 
Well, Deku has a minor AP advantage (>781 MT vs 565)
This is High 7-A keys, those values would be just 7-A, going off the files the accepted end of the calc Tink scales to is 3.181 gigatons, whereas Deku seems to scale to baseline-ish from heavily upscaling the 748 megaton calc on the profile? Idk, haven't touched MHA myself
 
While 4.174 gigatons is a large AP advantage over baseline's 1 gigaton, it isn't one shot range (which is a 7.5 times difference), though some attack amps and/or defense debuffs from Tinkaton could widen it to that, though most of Tinkaton's stat changers are chance based.
 
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Yes it is a stomp, Deku can't even use 100% for more than a few minutes.

It's even in his weakness section, but nobody ever reads that.
 
The AP different between them in megaton conversations like 5.58, not enough for a one shot unless tinkaton pulls a swords dance or some other stat boost
 
This fight is a stomp, this should be closed.

Izuku's High 7-A states destroys his body with every single attack, his body will collapse after a few minutes.

Tinkaton can win by doing nothing, just wait for Izuku's body to drop after he breaks every single bone in his limbs.

This is in his profile's weakness section. "While the damage inflicted to his body has been decreased due to his constant training and stronger physique, he still cannot fight at 100% for more than a few minutes before collapsing."
 
Well, Tinkaton still has a slight AP advantage and the previously mentioned hax so I would still argue that she bonks Ezra over the head.
 
From a glance I don't know what Ezra would do first, and I don't really know and FT folks so I can't comment yet. Tinkaton is faster, but Ezra apparently has 6-C durability? I don't think any of Tinkaton's moves can do much here.
 
From a glance I don't know what Ezra would do first, and I don't really know and FT folks so I can't comment yet. Tinkaton is faster, but Ezra apparently has 6-C durability? I don't think any of Tinkaton's moves can do much here.
Considering the 6-C comes form High 7-A upscale (Or at least I think so) and Tinkaton can lower her defenses with Rock Smash and Flash Cannon
I don't think 6-C Durability is that big of a problem
 
The 6-C dura comes from taking hits from Jellal and Midnight who are 7.2 gigatons. That is Erza’s body specifically while her armors that she swaps through are all 3-4 gigatons so it’s more so whatever damage goes through her armor then has to contend with the 7.2 gigaton dura.

Erza’s armors are limited to her base suit and her Flame/Sea/Lightning Empress Armors for this fight. Her standard armor is irrelevant along with SEA and LEA but FEA does double damage. Erza always picks an armor best suited to counter in her opp so she would start with a barrage of the different weapons available to figure out any type advantages, swaps to FEA and just swings for x2 damage.

Flight Armor would have been viable but FA is two layers of speed blitz (at least one) since Natsu’s senses let him counter an FTE blitz from Jellal but Racer (who Flight Armor Erza can keep up with along with Cobra) blitzes Natsu, Gray, Lyon etc etc. but Sub Rel beating an FTL with speed blitz is a bit much lol

For skill, Erza is able to fight Natsu on equal grounds (DSM is basically a martial art) despite his senses letting him counter a blitz and being able to learn a fighting style after a minute of fighting it, dual wielding lets her skill stomp Ikaruga (a master swordsman who skill stomped Erza with one sword. Note that Ikaruga had a stat advantage over Erza so Erza only managed this with stronger armors), she is able to wield a sword with all four limbs simultaneously to double her cqc ability compared to dual wielding, and cut down hundreds of danmaku with one eye closed (screws over her depth perception but who needs that).
 
Rock Smash and Flash Cannon can make her dura go down by 0.25 times so that resolves the Durability problem
She can also make herself stronger with Metal Claw up to 4x
Lower Erza's AP by 0.25 with Baby-Doll Eyes and Skitter Smack
plus Tinkaton can too deal double damage with Knock Off
For Tinkaton theyre able to fight and are comparable to beings like Machamp (Who knows and mastered every single martial art that exists), Sirfatche'd (who can only evolve after fighting many battles and surviving them all against strong opponents) and Alakazam (who has an IQ of 4,000)
so if anything Tink will at least be able to keep up with Erza's abilities
 
Being able to use all those moves is nice and all but what’s actually in character for Tinkaton? Cuz I don’t get it when people argue some super optimal strategy for these nameless mons when they should have no info or evidence of fighting in such a way.

On the skill,
  • High IQ =/= skill unless it is specifically applied to combat, something you would need feats for.
  • Machamp having mastered every martial art similarly tells me nothing beyond the fact that he has mastered at least 2 martial arts. What martial arts exist in Pokenon besides boxing that is actually applicable to Machamp? Because those are the only things Tinkaton would actually scale to dealing with in terms martial arts mastery, which isn’t even applicable to Erza who uses swords. I also need to point out that Tinkaton resists half of Machamps moves while having access to a bunch of hax. Unless you can show them scrapping in cqc, Tinkaton isn’t scaling in skill. Statements of skill are nice but if we can’t actually show applications of it when characters start doing/countering blatantly superhuman things in terms of skill, they don’t hold much weight.
  • What are these “strong” Pokémon that Sirfetch’d fought and how skilled are they? Much like Machamp, you’d have to show Tinkaton beating them in terms of skill and would need to bring a list of the fights Sirfetch’d won.
 
Erza has the better intelligence, skill, and Durabiity
Tinkaton has the better abilities, resistances, speed, and AP
 
Being able to use all those moves is nice and all but what’s actually in character for Tinkaton?
I'm concerned about this, too, having semi-skipped through the posts in this thread just now.
Cuz I don’t get it when people argue some super optimal strategy for these nameless mons when they should have no info or evidence of fighting in such a way.
Reasonable concern. For a Bloodlusted Pokemon, such behaviour would be reasonable, but Tinkaton is not bloodlusted.
Also:
nameless mons
???
On the skill,
  • High IQ =/= skill unless it is specifically applied to combat, something you would need feats for.
Have you read Alakazam's Pokedex entries?

If you haven't.... Well, you can read the long summary of it in my post here:
& if you need a dang condensed a list of highlights:
"Said to be on par with or able to outperform a supercomputer, said to remember everything that ever happens to it, can memorize anything, has a thorough memory of everything that has occured in the world, never forgets what it learns, & to have an IQ of 5,000. Calculates many things to gain every edge in battle. Can use all form of all psychic abilities."

This does not include how Alakazam's abilities from its previous forms (Which, given it remembers everything it learns, it has even more reason to maintain.) like Abra's sensing of danger, automatic teleportation in response, even while asleep, Kadabra's making precision devices malfunction, Kadabra's headaches, strong spiritual power, & probably other stuff I didn't mention.
  • Machamp having mastered every martial art similarly tells me nothing beyond the fact that he has mastered at least 2 martial arts.
Why would we not assume the martial arts of the real world or those similar to it exist in the Pokemon world?
(Also, I'm unsure how much weight this carries for you, but Machamp's martial arts skill began at the 1st of its 3 evolutionary stages, as a Machop:
"Loves to build its muscles. It trains in all styles of martial arts to become even stronger." )

If you want, I can try searching text dumps for mentions of martial arts, but again:
Why would we not assume the martial arts of the real world or those similar to it exist in the Pokemon world?
  • What martial arts exist in Pokenon besides boxing that is actually applicable to Machamp?
It also has multiple classes of trainers, human & Pokemon practicioners & multiple dojos dedicated to martial arts, & if we're considering just the Pokemon, several are based on existing martial arts styles which are reflected in their designs.
  • Because those are the only things Tinkaton would actually scale to dealing with in terms martial arts mastery, which isn’t even applicable to Erza who uses swords.
Why wouldn't martial arts be applicable for defending yourself against someone wielding a weapon?
  • Unless you can show them scrapping in cqc,
You will have to read or view the game's animations for that; Tinkaton is a Generation 9 Pokemon. The Generation 9 anime, Pokemon Horizons, only just aired its 2nd episode on the 14th, & AFAIK, Tinkaton & its entire line are 1 of the dozens of Pokemon that haven't appeared in all 2 episodes, much less been shown fighting in it.

But as said, reading is viable; Consulting its Pokedex entries & the descriptions of its moves.
The majority of Pokemon get, at most, 1 Pokedex entry per game, & Gen 9 is 2 games so far, so Tinkaton's entire evolutionary line has 6 Pokedex entries:
Tinkatink (1st stage):

ScarletIt swings its handmade hammer around to protect itself, but the hammer is often stolen by Pokémon that eat metal.
VioletThis Pokémon pounds iron scraps together to make a hammer. It will remake the hammer again and again until it's satisfied with the result.
Tinkatuff (2nd stage):
ScarletThis Pokémon will attack groups of Pawniard and Bisharp, gathering metal from them in order to create a large and sturdy hammer.
VioletThese Pokémon make their homes in piles of scrap metal. They test the strength of each other's hammers by smashing them together.
Pawniard is a Pokemon that fight in groups, following the orders of Bisharp "to a tee", using blades. Pawniard train dilligently, dreaming of taking the lead. Pawniard will challenge even powerful foes, are willing ignore their own injuries in order to attack, & regularly maintain & sharpen their blades. In a pinch, it will cling to opponents and pierce them with the blades all over its body. The Pokedex also says "Any chips in its blades would prove fatal for it."; Whether that's to Pawniard's discredit, or to emphasize the formidability of Pawniard's foes seems up for debate, & in another thread, IMHO.

Bisharp is Pawniard's evolved form. It leads a large group of Pawniard, keeping a keen eye on its "minions", ensuring none of them even think of double-crossing it, & Bisharp & its Pawniard pursue prey, hounding the prey into immobility, then Bisharp moves in to finishes off the prey. Bisharp is described as "pitiless", said that it will do anything to win, & does not change expression, even when dealing the finishing blow to an opponent. Quote the Pokedex: "No matter how strong the Bisharp, it's said that if the blade on its head is chipped, it will retire from its position as the boss."
Bisharp battle to become the boss, but will be driven from the group if it loses.

Other entries:
ShieldViolent conflicts erupt between Bisharp and Fraxure over places where sharpening stones can be found.
ScarletThis Pokémon commands a group of several Pawniard. Groups that are defeated in territorial disputes are absorbed by the winning side.
Other Pokemon like Corviknight are involved in Tinkaton's scaling, such as Corviknight, or Fraxure, given Bisharp's own scaling. I'd be surprised if you wanted me to go into such detail as explaining a whole ecology.
Still, the long & short of Tinkatuff's relationship with Pawniard & Bisharp indicates it can take on whole, co-ordinated & merciless gangs of Steel-type Pokemon to gather metal from them. Considering a chip in the blade means death for Pawniard & demotion or retirement for Bisharp, literally stealing the metal from their bodies & being successful at it doesn't seem like an easy feat, yet Tinkatuff does it.

As Tinkatuff's evolved form, Tinkaton should be superior to it.

Tinkaton (3rd & final stage)
ScarletThis intelligent Pokémon has a very daring disposition. It knocks rocks into the sky with its hammer, aiming for flying Corviknight.
VioletThe hammer tops 220 pounds, yet it gets swung around easily by Tinkaton as it steals whatever it pleases and carries its plunder back home.
Would you like me to go into detail about Corviknight's evolutionary line's scaling?

Here are all the Level-Up & Egg Move moves Tinkaton learns that I thought the descriptions for which would be pertinent to skill, with my comments for some of them:
Astonish:
The user attacks the target by crying out in a startling fashion. This may also make the target flinch.
Fairy Wind:
The user attacks by stirring up a fairy wind to strike the target.
Baby-Doll Eyes:
The user stares at the target with its baby-doll eyes. This lowers the target’s offensive stats.
(In my opinion, how one presents one's self to the foe is also an aspect of skill.)
Metal Claw:
The target is raked with steel claws. This may also boost the user's Attack stat.
Covet:
The user endearingly approaches the target, then steals the target's held item.
Sweet Kiss:
The user kisses the target with a sweet, angelic cuteness that causes confusion.
Brutal Swing:
The user swings its body around violently to inflict damage on everything in its vicinity.
Flash Cannon:
The user gathers all its light energy and releases it at once. This may also lower the target's Sp. Def stat.
Play Rough:
The user attacks by playing rough with the target. This may also lower the target's Attack stat.
Flatter:
Flattery is used to confuse the target. However, this also boosts the target's Sp. Atk stat.
Skitter Smack:
The user skitters behind the target to attack. This also lowers the target's Sp. Atk stat.
Knock Off:
The user slaps down the target's held item, making it unusable for that battle. This move does more damage if the target has a held item.
Feint:
This attack can hit a target using a move such as Protect or Detect. This also lifts the effects of those moves.

That Tinkaton can learn to do those things, & likely has done so, if it's as capable a Pokemon as it can be for this match, should give some credit to its skill.
  • What are these “strong” Pokémon that Sirfetch’d fought and how skilled are they? Much like Machamp, you’d have to show Tinkaton beating them in terms of skill and would need to bring a list of the fights Sirfetch’d won.
Presumably, Sirfetch'd's justification not specifying species is a product of evolutionary stage skilling standard for the Pokemon verse.
 
At the moment, just waiting/hoping for @AnonymousBlank to assess me basically giving a miniature lecture on Pokemon ecology.
Well I disagree with your post so it’s irrelevant 😤
Also:

???
Referring to random mons with no feats to their name (besides pokedex stuff obviously)
Have you read Alakazam's Pokedex entries?

If you haven't.... Well, you can read the long summary of it in my post here:
& if you need a dang condensed a list of highlights:
"Said to be on par with or able to outperform a supercomputer, said to remember everything that ever happens to it, can memorize anything, has a thorough memory of everything that has occured in the world, never forgets what it learns, & to have an IQ of 5,000. Calculates many things to gain every edge in battle. Can use all form of all psychic abilities."

This does not include how Alakazam's abilities from its previous forms (Which, given it remembers everything it learns, it has even more reason to maintain.) like Abra's sensing of danger, automatic teleportation in response, even while asleep, Kadabra's making precision devices malfunction, Kadabra's headaches, strong spiritual power, & probably other stuff I didn't mention.
I don’t deny Alakazam has stuff that matters, just pointing out that 5,000 IQ means nothing without feats. Example would be Brainstorm’s 1 nonillion IQ. Who cares when his actual application of such brainpower in combat is basic ass precog?

The important thing to consider is if a wild Tinkaton can actually do anything to Alakazam or replicate the feats of Pokémon who can? If so, someone needs to post that. If not, Alakazam is irrelevant to the discussion.
Why would we not assume the martial arts of the real world or those similar to it exist in the Pokemon world?
Because it’s not irl? We can only take what’s actually in the verse and not just assume.

Even if we do accept that Machamp is a master of all weapons as well, they don’t exactly use weapons when they fight from what I’ve seen so Tinkaton or whoever beats them can hardly scale to being masters of their weapon.
(Also, I'm unsure how much weight this carries for you, but Machamp's martial arts skill began at the 1st of its 3 evolutionary stages, as a Machop:
"Loves to build its muscles. It trains in all styles of martial arts to become even stronger." )
To quote Bruce Lee, “I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.
If you want, I can try searching text dumps for mentions of martial arts, but again:
Why would we not assume the martial arts of the real world or those similar to it exist in the Pokemon world?
Cuz you’d need to prove the Pokémon planet has all of those martial arts since by default, it is very blatantly not the real world.
It also has multiple classes of trainers, human & Pokemon practicioners & multiple dojos dedicated to martial arts, & if we're considering just the Pokemon, several are based on existing martial arts styles which are reflected in their designs.

Why wouldn't martial arts be applicable for defending yourself against someone wielding a weapon?
Because martial arts are used for specific things and weapons are a force amplifier that, by and large, also grant a large range advantage. You can have mastered every martial art in the world but if I have a weapon like a sword and you don’t, the odds of me landing a single hit before you can bring any of your skill to bear is really high.
You will have to read or view the game's animations for that; Tinkaton is a Generation 9 Pokemon. The Generation 9 anime, Pokemon Horizons, only just aired its 2nd episode on the 14th, & AFAIK, Tinkaton & its entire line are 1 of the dozens of Pokemon that haven't appeared in all 2 episodes, much less been shown fighting in it.
I’ll probably see stuff at some point since I plan on rewatching all of Pokémon for nostalgia soon (I hope)
But as said, reading is viable; Consulting its Pokedex entries & the descriptions of its moves.
The majority of Pokemon get, at most, 1 Pokedex entry per game, & Gen 9 is 2 games so far, so Tinkaton's entire evolutionary line has 6 Pokedex entries:
Tinkatink (1st stage):

ScarletIt swings its handmade hammer around to protect itself, but the hammer is often stolen by Pokémon that eat metal.
VioletThis Pokémon pounds iron scraps together to make a hammer. It will remake the hammer again and again until it's satisfied with the result.
Tinkatuff (2nd stage):
ScarletThis Pokémon will attack groups of Pawniard and Bisharp, gathering metal from them in order to create a large and sturdy hammer.
VioletThese Pokémon make their homes in piles of scrap metal. They test the strength of each other's hammers by smashing them together.
Fighting groups is actually good scaling no matter how trash the individual is in terms of skill. Issue arises when you take into account that Tuff is a stage above the Pawniards which is a pretty big gap between them and basically only makes the Bisharp relevant in the fight.
Pawniard is a Pokemon that fight in groups, following the orders of Bisharp "to a tee", using blades. Pawniard train dilligently, dreaming of taking the lead. Pawniard will challenge even powerful foes, are willing ignore their own injuries in order to attack, & regularly maintain & sharpen their blades. In a pinch, it will cling to opponents and pierce them with the blades all over its body. The Pokedex also says "Any chips in its blades would prove fatal for it."; Whether that's to Pawniard's discredit, or to emphasize the formidability of Pawniard's foes seems up for debate, & in another thread, IMHO.
This just means they take care of their weapons … which also give an advantage of mons without weapons.
Bisharp is Pawniard's evolved form. It leads a large group of Pawniard, keeping a keen eye on its "minions", ensuring none of them even think of double-crossing it, & Bisharp & its Pawniard pursue prey, hounding the prey into immobility, then Bisharp moves in to finishes off the prey. Bisharp is described as "pitiless", said that it will do anything to win, & does not change expression, even when dealing the finishing blow to an opponent. Quote the Pokedex: "No matter how strong the Bisharp, it's said that if the blade on its head is chipped, it will retire from its position as the boss."
Bisharp battle to become the boss, but will be driven from the group if it loses.
I’d argue this entry is worse for the skill argument as it’s just an army of mons tiring out their prey before Bisharp actually goes in for the kill. Essentially, Bisharp only fights super nerfed Pokémon for the most part.
Other entries:
ShieldViolent conflicts erupt between Bisharp and Fraxure over places where sharpening stones can be found.
ScarletThis Pokémon commands a group of several Pawniard. Groups that are defeated in territorial disputes are absorbed by the winning side.
Other Pokemon like Corviknight are involved in Tinkaton's scaling, such as Corviknight, or Fraxure, given Bisharp's own scaling. I'd be surprised if you wanted me to go into such detail as explaining a whole ecology.
Still, the long & short of Tinkatuff's relationship with Pawniard & Bisharp indicates it can take on whole, co-ordinated & merciless gangs of Steel-type Pokemon to gather metal from them. Considering a chip in the blade means death for Pawniard & demotion or retirement for Bisharp, literally stealing the metal from their bodies & being successful at it doesn't seem like an easy feat, yet Tinkatuff does it.
Not seeing where the coordinated part comes from. Based on the entries you provided, Pawniards follow Bisharps who are considerably stronger than them and are only used to chase down other Pokémon until they are tired which only the Bisharp actually confronts.

Tinkatuff actually coming in by themselves to clown on these groups of much weaker Pokémon who never actually fight their prey at their best makes perfect sense as the Bisharp/Pawniard gangs are low-key just not good at fighting at all from the evidence presented.

This Erza while super tired similarly bullies an entire guild of Dark Mages (dozens of guys who specialise in killing with a lot of weapon users among them), and scales far above Gray who can spend the day beating up entire Dark Guilds and with Lyon’s help (Gray’s equal) can defeat Racer (who blitzes Gray and Lyon twice over and is stated to stomp an entire guild). Gray is someone who is Natsu equal throughout X784 and can consistently tag him without using spells even though Natsu is a hth specialist able to predict and counter a blitz from his sense of smell alone.

Just by being an S-Class Mage, Erza takes missions where slipping up for even the briefest moment signs your death warrant like when Mira dropped her guard and got the shit beat out of her so bad she wasn’t able to even attempt stopping an out of control Elfman.
As Tinkatuff's evolved form, Tinkaton should be superior to it.

Tinkaton (3rd & final stage)
ScarletThis intelligent Pokémon has a very daring disposition. It knocks rocks into the sky with its hammer, aiming for flying Corviknight.
VioletThe hammer tops 220 pounds, yet it gets swung around easily by Tinkaton as it steals whatever it pleases and carries its plunder back home.
Would you like me to go into detail about Corviknight's evolutionary line's scaling?
Looked into the Corviknight stuff a bit myself and while it is praised for its intelligence, the only real examples of such intelligence is Corvisquire wielding random debris in its beak and talons to either drop on the enemy or tying them up with rope … which is rather basic.
Here are all the Level-Up & Egg Move moves Tinkaton learns that I thought the descriptions for which would be pertinent to skill, with my comments for some of them:
Astonish:
The user attacks the target by crying out in a startling fashion. This may also make the target flinch.
Fairy Wind:
The user attacks by stirring up a fairy wind to strike the target.
Baby-Doll Eyes:
The user stares at the target with its baby-doll eyes. This lowers the target’s offensive stats.
(In my opinion, how one presents one's self to the foe is also an aspect of skill.)
Metal Claw:
The target is raked with steel claws. This may also boost the user's Attack stat.
Covet:
The user endearingly approaches the target, then steals the target's held item.
Sweet Kiss:
The user kisses the target with a sweet, angelic cuteness that causes confusion.
Brutal Swing:
The user swings its body around violently to inflict damage on everything in its vicinity.
Flash Cannon:
The user gathers all its light energy and releases it at once. This may also lower the target's Sp. Def stat.
Play Rough:
The user attacks by playing rough with the target. This may also lower the target's Attack stat.
Flatter:
Flattery is used to confuse the target. However, this also boosts the target's Sp. Atk stat.
Skitter Smack:
The user skitters behind the target to attack. This also lowers the target's Sp. Atk stat.
Knock Off:
The user slaps down the target's held item, making it unusable for that battle. This move does more damage if the target has a held item.
Feint:
This attack can hit a target using a move such as Protect or Detect. This also lifts the effects of those moves.
These aren’t really skill feats.
That Tinkaton can learn to do those things, & likely has done so, if it's as capable a Pokemon as it can be for this match, should give some credit to its skill.

Presumably, Sirfetch'd's justification not specifying species is a product of evolutionary stage skilling standard for the Pokemon verse.
Skilling? Or just overpowering? Because stages make for a pretty big difference in power between them and you’d have to prove they outskill the lower stages by default.
 
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