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Although this is late, your name is random guy lol
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Time To Start A War
- Thread starter RitsuØ1
- Start date
- Status
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Bleach is like Dragon Ball Heroes (or Dragon Ball more generally) when it comes to fights.
Stomp or get stomped.
Stomp or get stomped.
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"CAN HE BEAT GOKU THO?"
Me: apparently this Strawberry can beat him.
Me: apparently this Strawberry can beat him.
Hellscream
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You realize that even if this was soul manipulation, that this doesn't make it low-2c soul manipulation right?
Souls are pretty baseline in the dragon ball verse, there's nothing impressive about being able to erase them.
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In terms of AP capabilities, Goku is far superior to Ichigo. If we take the key atleast Universal, Goku is 220× stronger than the baseline Universal. And, if we take the Universe+ key version, Goku also would be superior since Ichigo's rating is possibly. He was on superior scaling by comparable to Jiren who surpassed the Hakaishin there and Infinite Zamasu who became one with the universe including it's time dimension. Plus there was a moment where the fight of Champa and Beerus could destroy both universes in overtime.
And, Goku has a way of dealing with Soul Crush. Someone who thinks Soul Crush by default has Universal range while Hakai doesn't is an odd reason. In terms of entering into this aspect, the focus is in the context of its effectiveness. Hakai, is an existence erasing technique that erases the "soul" itself so that a person cannot reincarnate and disappears from the world completely. In this aspect, the hakai should be superior to Ichigo's Soul Crush. Mainly, the mechanism of Soul Crush is destroying the soul by overloading it through higher Reiatsu. As far as I remember, Soul Crush won't work on an opponent that's more or less on the same level. If we use the logic in Bleach, Soul Crush can be created because it uses the Reiatsu system. Anyone with a higher Reiatsu can suppress other beings so that they become inferior. And, therefore it required an equivalent level of Reiatsu to injure the opponent, otherwise one's attack would be useless.
I chose Goku. Goku is superior in terms of AP and Hax Resistance.
And, Goku has a way of dealing with Soul Crush. Someone who thinks Soul Crush by default has Universal range while Hakai doesn't is an odd reason. In terms of entering into this aspect, the focus is in the context of its effectiveness. Hakai, is an existence erasing technique that erases the "soul" itself so that a person cannot reincarnate and disappears from the world completely. In this aspect, the hakai should be superior to Ichigo's Soul Crush. Mainly, the mechanism of Soul Crush is destroying the soul by overloading it through higher Reiatsu. As far as I remember, Soul Crush won't work on an opponent that's more or less on the same level. If we use the logic in Bleach, Soul Crush can be created because it uses the Reiatsu system. Anyone with a higher Reiatsu can suppress other beings so that they become inferior. And, therefore it required an equivalent level of Reiatsu to injure the opponent, otherwise one's attack would be useless.
I chose Goku. Goku is superior in terms of AP and Hax Resistance.
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Hueco Mundo arc characters already have their soul preassure in the millions potency, can u show a hakai feat that is similar to it?
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What potency? Also, both mechanism of attack are destroying soul but Hakai has superior aspect on that. By resisting Hakai, Goku should also resist to Soul attack stuff tho.
If you bringing stuff, I also want to ask. Do Soul Crush has shown any feats that destroy Soul completely in instant? Because I seem it has it's own restriction on Energy value. Which I have explained above.
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Number of souls affected
As I said, a simple soul preassure from Hueco Mundo arc already was enough to affect millions numbers of souls at once, show a hakai feat having the same potency of soul hax
Yes
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Isn't that more qualified as a range? and also not automatic Universal. After all, the millions of souls there were at a weak reiatsu level. If you mean the moment when Ulquiorra and the other Arrancar come to Karakura Town and wreak havoc by absorbing the human souls around, we can also see that there is people who can overcome it because they have a higher level of reiatsu. Bringing this in as support instead shows a contradictory context in your words and the series.
Well also you not have answer my statement about Soul Crush that won't work on the people that has a same energy value level. Goku's energy is far superior to Ichigo. And Ki's battle in Dragon Ball is basically a Reiatsu battle.
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Idk maybe not as Arrancar are a single one entity that are an agregation of millions souls together
I never claimed that, idk who did
No I don't mean it, I was talking about Arrancars being an aglomeration of millions souls and aizen soul preassure can affect it, and the ones who resist having their soul f$cked, is because they have resistance to it.
Ki is not the same thing as reiatsu, they are from different verses, and if a character resist soul preassure, its because they have resistance to it
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I mean, we can simply it, the reason why they could resist that thing is because there's a rule where reiatsu system works as a determinant as I explained above. If you have a reiatsu that more superior than a normal human, you can resist a Soul Crush or a higher degree of that. Since this is a generalized vs thread, there wouldn't be any personal logic which work only on the verse.
That's kind of derailing, I'm not talking about stuff that compose Arrancar. Because you're talking about Soul Crush earlier who affect million souls, while a composed thing of Arrancar absorb soul to turn them into an inteligent being.
Ok.
Wait that's logic kinda exaggerating. That's not how it works. Also at the time Aizen showing his reiatsu only made Grimjow down kneel to him.
I know. But we're using a generalized system right now, so 'basically' it is.
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Why does it matter? Aizen didnt wanted to kill Grimmjow, why would him want to erase him? but it still affected him and the others effects of the soul preassure applied, such as paralysis and fear hax, Arrancars are millions of souls together, Grimmjow is an arrancar, therefore, soul haxing him is affecting millions of souls together
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Indeed Aizen only want to show his superiority but when Aizen turn into an Alien God, we can also see a normal human get erased but at the same time there also a "normal human" likes Don Kanonji including Karakura Group (such as Chad, Uryuu) who didn't get affected by his Soul Crush. Well that more like kind of a domino effect that won't work on such term.
I mean, if we use an anology who brings a character that resist Conceptual Erasure Existence vs a character that has causality manipulation that properly more complex than him, that ability would work. Even thought generally Concept > Causality. The same thing with this logic, affecting such singular objects won't make other objects get affected. It's different.
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Just gonna say, this is the exact reason why I’m thinking of trying to revise the 2-C standards. Taking 2 Low 2-C attacks at the same time should make you 2-C.
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Which means that they resisted it?
I don't care to this, isnt even related with soul potency
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Yes. That's because they have a spiritual energy aka a reaitsu that higher than a normal human would be. My point is, if Goku have a comparable energy amount to Ichigo (because they are Universal and Goku more superior to him in case of AP) the Soul Crush thing wouldn't be useable. This is the basic logic of Bleachverse, if you have a comparable energy or more superior you can make other power from a character that an inferior useless.
It's an analogy who can idealize such contradicting thing.
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That's not the case, if they have the feats, it means resistance, the concrete feat that I showed in hueco mundo arc are million souls, goku wont resist it unless he also has millions souls resistance
thats a totally not relevant analogy
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anyways, I will stop using VSB today, i will come back tomorrow
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He would since those million souls are far weaker than him. By using this logic, you would also say Don Kanonji resist Soul Crush and is superior than those million souls? That's a reaching logic.
Actually it is, analogy can be anything if the context is same. That analogy have a same context as the problem here, both showing us a different object wouldn't effect any other.
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It has been established many times that Dragonball soul Hax is massively inferior to Bleach's soul Hax, whose verse resolves around soul (million of souls isn't even far-fetched). Since apparently everything there has a soul.
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Far from it, considering it's stated strong Arrancars can comprise several hundreds of millions of souls.
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Well about million of souls, the arrancar exist because they devour a normal hollow and then evolved into a greater being than Menos Grande untill the point they get their own mind (they have become an intellectual being) and be a being that what we know for. I don't see this as 'stronger' than average soul in Dragon Ball. In Dragon Ball, actually there also a being who born from million of souls. It was Janemba. And the existence of Janemba alone could made a great havoc on the macrocosms (which broke the law of the universe and made a singularity). I don't see Arrancar being stronger than Janemba which both of them from a million of souls.
Also, not everything in there has soul. I'm bleach reader since I was kid. Actually, the cosmology has a complex system. Both has a particle which acts as Atom. In the human world there's atom who made ups everything. While in the realm of Hollow and Soul Society there's Reishi (the particle of spiritual) which mades up everyhing in there. So that's why, human can't go to Soul Society because the law of every world and thing that mades up everything is different.
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aight im back
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Janemba is not even canon, irrelevant stuff
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Yep. What's exactly stopping Ichigo from soul haxing him? All I see are arguments about "certain humans not being soul crushed".
Proof that Dragonball has low-2c soul manipulation.
That's good and all, but this has been discussed millions of times in this wiki and it's widely known knowledge that everything in bleach has a soul. What you know a kid isn't the same as you know about Vsbattles Bleach.
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Kind of derailing the point. The main point in my argument is about having an higher degree of reiatsu (spiritual energy) that can prevent you from Soul Crush. Because, everything in this verse rely on how stronger is the spiritual energy from such character. That's why, there are characters who can avoid Soul Crushing because they have a great amount of Reiatsu, the example is as I mentioned above such as people from Karakura including Ichigo's friend. So, by using this logic, Soul Crush won't work on a person that has a same energy or atleast comparable to him.
You first, proof why the soul hax in bleach is Low 2C. Don't burdening the context and be the one who burdening the proof, duh.
Okay. So can I see those disscussion? Maybe that can change my mind.
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Why are we arguing Goku can resist soul hax when the only thing he's ever done is resist EXISTENCE ERASURE?
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If you think about it in general it will be clear what it looks like. But if you look deeper, the logic in Bleach that makes people who have 'equal energy' to their opponents will make that person, by default, make basic things like Soul Crush useless. Especially the Soul Crush thing it lacks consistency.
I definitely won't say Don Kanonji stronger than million of souls just because he don't get affected by the Soul Crush.
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I don't wanna crush your dreams, you weren't the first person who brought this up. Also this isn't the first Goku vs Bleach Characters match, at this point I'm wondering why is this is a discussion to begin with?
Nice reserve of burden of proof. Except that won't work, precisely because the proof is the verse itself and it's mechanism. You were the person who claimed Goku can resist low 2C Soul manipulation when he never resisted soul manipulation in his verse. Logically, you need to proof that he can resist soul manipulation of a higher potency.
Oh come on! Just check through the other bleach matches. It's not exactly my job to link you all bleach matches when you are capable of the ability to click on threads, etc etc.
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Irrelevant and a wasted sentence.
Sorry but you're not providing any proof and derailing the context here. Indeed, Goku doesn't has any resist feats for that but if we follow one of those verse mechanism, and we'll use Bleach here who has a rules where spiritual energy battle is the most relevant thing, it show us that the Soul Crush won't work on characters that have a comparable amount of energy. The same logics why Aizen can't Soul Crushing Ichigo, because they have a comparable reiatsu.
The point is about 'energy', both of them are Universal.
This what I call as burdening the proof. You said million times, I said in tone of "gimme one", and you replied this.
Irony.
Now try to explain to me about the reiatsu fight there which if the opponent has a comparable level they will be able to overcome things like soul crush, with logic like this, especially they are on the same tier, it should be overcome. But if you want to remove this context, try to prove Ichigo's Soul Crush range is really Low 2C as many people say. If true, I will support Ichigo.
Fair?
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I'll move on from this. Right now I guess I want proof about Low 2C Soul Manip from Ichigo.
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If
He
Don't
Got
Resistance
To
Soul
Manip
On
His
Profile
He
Don't
Resist
Soul
Manip
It's not up for debate, we don't give characters resistances not on their profiles.
azontr
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Why does it matter? Bleach has absurdly potent soul manipulation it isn't even funny, and Goku sorta doesn't resist soooo....
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Bleach soul hax potency reaches into the several hundreds of millions of souls, potentially even tens of trillions of souls (if you take Yama's statement for his 10 Trillion Corpse summoning as literal), meanwhile Goku has nothing in terms of soul manip resistance on his profile. Therefore, he gets smacked by the soul potency of Bleach here on vsbw.
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So no one wants to give proof of the Soul Manipulation for being Low 2C?
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Then I guess, I would take this thread as incon.
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azontr
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It doesn't need to be low 2-C. Goku doesn't resist it, and the potency is stupidly high.
Goku dies.
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