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Time Frozen Calculation Update

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From this initial thread, the number 0.013m/s was assigned as the speed of snails to be used when viewing an object frozen , but it was largely based on a 1974 publication which was referenced in several others.

This should be updated as it has been refuted by several sources,

Firstly The Wikipedia article (subsection behaviour)

"Since its publication in March 1974 issue of Natural History an estimate for the highest speed of garden snail equal to 0.03 mph (1.3 cm/s) became popular. However, the accuracy of this estimate has been questioned by Robert Cameron, who pointed out that in competitions between snails, only 2.4 mm/s speed had been achieved"
This is the 2016 publication


I also confirmed this, using the second source, Guinness book of world records acknowledged Archie as the fastest ever recorded snail in 1995. Archie, completed a 0.33m platform in 2mins, which gives 0.00275m/s or 0.0028m/s velocity , almost 5x less than what the publication in 1974 recorded. This particular competition has been held every year since 1970, meaning in 53 years, not one snail has been able to match Archie's, let alone the so called estimated snail speed given in 1974 (which other sites copied). These race snails are bred and trained and dieted for racing, it makes no sense for normal snails to exceed snails built for racing and somehow not been recorded again about 50 years later.

Finally, basically any modern pdf on snails also has their speed recorded as beneath Archie's.

I believe we should use the most official and trusted snail speed record, the fastest officially is Archie, who holds the record for the fasted speed is Archie, at 0.00275(or 0.0028)m/s, no 0.013m/s. This is found in the Guinness book of world records,

Thus anyone who used the 0.013m/s can redo their calc with 0.00275 or 0.0028m/s depending on how many decimal points is decided on. This is more accurate and can more easily be proven
 
Would you be kind enough to link some of these modern pdfs? I will ask some calc group members to check.
 
The link Therefir linked is broken, so I sadly can't double-check that.

I'm not a fan of using the Guiness world records; I've seen them flagrantly parrot things without verification too many times for me to put much trust in them.

The Wikipedia article, if you go further, suggests that the difference could be because those races occur on flat terrain, while snails would likely prefer vertical ascent, which could leave both estimates being correct, but for different situations. In which case, the one used when climbing does seem more suitable.

From this, I'm more inclined to believe the 1.3 cm/s estimate. One source vs one source, and a reason for the difference is given that would leave both valid, and the 1.3 cm/s one more reasonable.
 
Would you be kind enough to link some of these modern pdfs? I will ask some calc group members to check.
Here's one, (Table 1 shows the mean speed across different platforms in relation to a horizontal one (cm/30secs))
This one was a science project work, about 60 different snails were tested in the sun and then the shade , highest speed was 125.3mm/min, basically 0.0021m/s,
The link Therefir linked is broken, so I sadly can't double-check that.

I'm not a fan of using the Guiness world records; I've seen them flagrantly parrot things without verification too many times for me to put much trust in them.
The Archie feat occurred during the annual global snail race, the 2023 event was concluded just Few days ago, Archie has the highest speed ever recorded in this event, which is why he entered the books . It was an actual race, the snail crossed a 33cm platform in 2.00 mins
The Wikipedia article, if you go further, suggests that the difference could be because those races occur on flat terrain, while snails would likely prefer vertical ascent, which could leave both estimates being correct, but for different situations. In which case, the one used when climbing does seem more suitable.
I left that out because it was more aof a suggestion to an alternate theory rather than any fact, and This pdf from 2021 (Table 1), shows that snails move slower going vertically up than horizontally , which makes sense as going vertically up means Gravity will oppose them more strongly
From this, I'm more inclined to believe the 1.3 cm/s estimate. One source vs one source, and a reason for the difference is given that would leave both valid, and the 1.3 cm/s one more reasonable.
It's not one source tho, then 0.013m/s has never been replicated in any pdf that I've seen, all the ones that actually experiment on the speed of snails have all been less than Archie, and Archie's feat comes in a globally recognized annual event. Going vertically up shouldn't bring an almost 5X speed difference, most projectiles and opponents statued move horizontally across the ground don't they?
 
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Here's one, (Table 1 shows the mean speed across different platforms in relation to a horizontal one (cm/30secs))
This one was a science project work, about 60 different snails were tested in the sun and then the shade , highest speed was 125.3mm/min, basically 0.0021m/s,

The Archie feat occurred during the annual global snail race, the 2023 event was concluded just Few days ago, Archie has the highest speed ever recorded in this event, which is why he entered the books . It was an actual race, the snail crossed a 33cm platform in 2.00 mins

I left that out because it was more aof a suggestion to an alternate theory rather than any fact, and This pdf from 2021 (Table 1), shows that snails move slower going vertically up than horizontally , which makes sense as going vertically up means Gravity will oppose them more strongly

Going vertically up shouldn't being an almost 5X speed difference, play most projectiles and opponents statued moved horizontally across the ground don't they?
Ah okay fair enough then.
It's not one source tho, then 0.013m/s has never been replicated in any pdf that I've seen, all the ones that actually experiment on the speed of snails have all been less than Archie, and Archie's feat comes in a globally recognized annual event.
It is one source; it not being replicated means that it is one source, since there wasn't a second source replicating it....
 
It is one source; it not being replicated means that it is one source, since there wasn't a second source replicating it....
you said 'one source vs one source', I meant that the side disputing the 0.013m/s isn't one source as more than one experiment has shown otherwise
 
you said 'one source vs one source', I meant that the side disputing the 0.013m/s isn't one source as more than one experiment has shown otherwise
Fair enough now that you've elaborated with others. But at the time I'd just seen it being based on one snail racing organisation's records (with Guinness just parroting that, as they often do).
So you agree with the change?
Yeah sure, but I'd still want some more input.
 
I'd kinda like to hear @Therefir and @DontTalkDT 's thoughts before such a widespread change is applied.
Given that the results of the study have been put into question, and that they are undoubtedly right that all these mentions come from the same source, I would be fine with changing the snail's speed (again).

But at this point I'm tempted to take a random snail from the internet and calculate its speed, because I keep getting conflicting signals: "The average speed of a snail clocks in at around 0.03 mph, although a snail named Archie went nearly double that in 1995, setting the world record time at 2 minutes and 20 seconds."
 
But at this point I'm tempted to take a random snail from the internet and calculate its speed.
Alright, it's done. 1.625 mm/s for a random garden snail, which is certainly slower than the record holder snail (2.33 mm/s).

Of course this isn't a serious proposal, as there are many variables in an amateur calculation, but it shows that the speed of snails is in this range, plus the fact that even moving at that speed does not appear to be "truly frozen", making it a low-end for our calculations.

Maybe we could use something slower, I don't know, but for now I agree with the proposal of this thread.
 
Given that the results of the study have been put into question, and that they are undoubtedly right that all these mentions come from the same source, I would be fine with changing the snail's speed (again).

But at this point I'm tempted to take a random snail from the internet and calculate its speed, because I keep getting conflicting signals: "The average speed of a snail clocks in at around 0.03 mph, although a snail named Archie went nearly double that in 1995, setting the world record time at 2 minutes and 20 seconds."
I saw this publication too, but I og ored it cuz they messed up the numbers, Archie is 0.00275, less than 0.03, let alone being double, I am guessing they either put the wrong number/unit or just copied and pasted without verifying

Alright, it's done. 1.625 mm/s for a random garden snail, which is certainly slower than the record holder snail (2.33 mm/s).

Of course this isn't a serious proposal, as there are many variables in an amateur calculation, but it shows that the speed of snails is in this range, plus the fact that even moving at that speed does not appear to be "truly frozen", making it a low-end for our calculations.

Maybe we could use something slower, I don't know, but for now I agree with the proposal of this thread.
The reason I proposed Archie was because it would be an absolute low end with zero room for arguments about bias, it's also a globally recognized value.
 
Just need a few more CGM to accept it and then we good to go, 2 day grace seems to have passed.
 
I don't think this really needs to change.
Actually, yes it does, 0.013 m/s as it turns out, is way too fast for the typical snail and it serves to be a major outlier compared to the actual world record and other reliable Snail PDFs. AKA we don't have a choice.
 
If a snail regarded as being fast is slower than our current speed, then ours has to be wrong.

From what I'm seeing, the OP is correct. Unless someone can properly provide evidence on why 0.013 m/s is more accurate?

Right now, I'm in agreement with the OP on changing the speed to 0.00275 m/s.
 
I suppose we can change the snail speed.
Until we decide to use something else as baseline.
 
Actually, wait. Don't close it just yet.

The other pdfs posted for the new snail speed should also be edited into the Calculations Page section as support. Plus the new calc that you made, @Therefir
 
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