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Tiger vs Lion: This debate is wack

I mean these animals don't even live in the same environment as each other we could just not use the fights between them to say one is superior to the other in strength their other feats should likely be able to prove that without such examples
 
I mean these animals don't even live in the same environment as each other we could just not use the fights between them to say one is superior to the other in strength their other feats should likely be able to prove that without such examples
That.

And I don't see any source or study that says about Lions being stronger than an Bengal Tiger, while I see many for the later.
  • Tigers are larger.
  • They are stronger.
These cage fights doesn't count at all, in the wild the Lion can have their own protection but the stronger and bigger between both is the Tiger by far.
 
I mean being larger doesn't necessarily mean stronger it usually does but I am not exactly sure number 9 is stronger than number 10 who can jump 3 meters high on the first list just because size
 
I mean being larger doesn't necessarily mean stronger it usually does but I am not exactly sure number 9 is stronger than number 10 who can jump 3 meters high on the first list just because size
I stated how that's partly true in this thread. An obese/gigantism man aren't entirely stronger than regular people, but does that mean that a T. Rex, Apatosaurus, etc aren't stronger than a regular person? Why bother having the larger size page at all if larger doesn't mean stronger is 100% true?

And the official IRL Tiger page on VSBW says they leap 12 ft (3.658 m), a few inches higher than lions.
 
I agree with you here, because especially Siberian Tigers are considered one of the biggest and they are very much robust. Largest cat is the Tiger, not the Lion.

So no, I disagree with the thread. Though, I agree with using an better source for this and add note explanation for these cases.
It depends on the Tiger subspecies, since Siberian Tigers are much more bigger and I don't think some cage fights can count. It's hard to see an real fight between these two since the animals lives on different places and the most of it are rigged tho.

Even if Lions have an percentage of robustness more than Tigers, these felines have an much more denser bones than Lions.
We are not basing on size alone, but many sources of Tigers being stronger than Lion. And there nothing that says that's just fat, it's because their dense bones and muscular body.
 
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So where's the devil's advocate? Do we have evidence that wild tigers have more fat than muscle if Tigers' size aren't always stronger? DarlingAurora's reasoning and scans seem more convincing for an extra note still scaling Tigers above lions
 
I stated how that's partly true in this thread. An obese/gigantism man aren't entirely stronger than regular people, but does that mean that a T. Rex, Apatosaurus, etc aren't stronger than a regular person? Why bother having the larger size page at all if larger doesn't mean stronger is 100% true?

And the official IRL Tiger page on VSBW says they leap 12 ft (3.658 m), a few inches higher than lions.
I am just trying to point out one of the sources used to say that they are stronger and superior only says that they are larger. I agree lions are weaker but it doesn't seem like either profile says they are just comparable it always references some fight between the two and those are not the best way of proving strength given a lion can potentially win at least once in a 100 fights or something.
Btw, an large Southern African Lion is smaller than the average Bengal Tiger that's an big difference, uh-hu.
proportionally the difference is smaller but yes a difference of 26 kg is more than 7 and a half kg
 
I am just trying to point out one of the sources used to say that they are stronger and superior only says that they are larger. I agree lions are weaker but it doesn't seem like either profile says they are just comparable it always references some fight between the two and those are not the best way of proving strength given a lion can potentially win at least once in a 100 fights or something.

proportionally the difference is smaller but yes a difference of 26 kg is more than 7 and a half kg
And do you have proof that the tiger's larger size doesn't mean superior strength? DarlingAurora gave scientific evidence that a tiger's strength is stronger than a lion's.

The winning fight arguement is a strength and weakness since while it can demonstrate raw power, the method of raw power is problematic. In this case, a normally smaller animal winning a fight against a larger one can happen. We have feats of at least a person killing a grizzly via it's vitals, or a man ripping out a leopard's tongue. We have feats of lions killing tigers by neck bites because of this.
 
And do you have proof that the tiger's larger size doesn't mean superior strength? DarlingAurora gave scientific evidence that a tiger's strength is stronger than a lion's.
I didn't mean to use that as an argument I mean we literally cite the wikipedia list for: "In the wild they're superior to & stronger than lions & can fend off a pride of them" that is not said on the page cited that is my sole problem with it, how it is worded. The tiger's larger size supports the idea it is stronger.
The winning fight arguement is a strength and weakness since while it can demonstrate raw power, the method of raw power is problematic. In this case, a normally smaller animal winning a fight against a larger one can happen. We have feats of at least a person killing a grizzly via it's vitals, or a man ripping out a leopard's tongue. We have feats of lions killing tigers by neck bites because of this.
I am not trying to say lions are stronger than tigers I am saying we can probably find proof of that without using fights between the two for example tigers have a higher Bite force quotient despite their larger size and this for example
 
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Again I agree. My thoughts here are that if we are able to prove a tiger's greater strength without relying on using fights that helped lead to a wikipedia page getting deleted then we probably should. I hope that makes sense. Stuff like them being able to jump higher despite weighing more, having a higher bite force quotient which accounts for the tiger's greater size, and even just having proportional greater muscle mass, all of these things support the idea that they are stronger than lions.
 
Bump.

So the conclusion here currently is that Tigers are physically stronger than lions? If accepted by most people here, who's going to do the revisions. If no one else will, then I'll do it.
 
Most staff members here evidently haven't agreed with that, H3, so wait a moment.

OP really should have an "Agreed"/"Disagreed"/"Neutral" or "Lion better/Tiger better"It's 50/50" list in the first message for all the users who left their opinions, 'cause plenty of people have settled on it being fairly 50/50.
 
I mean could we probably justifiably upscale them from all 5 other big cats with Jaguars possibly being a partial exception seemingly being considered the strongest pound for pound and having the highest bite force. The high end Jaguar likely beats the lower end of healthy adult lions and tigers.
 
The high end Jaguar likely beats the lower end of healthy adult lions and tigers.
Eeeeh that's not necessarily true. A lioness and tigress or subadult males for either are still typically slightly larger and that doesn't necessarily mean it'd be able to beat them anyway.

and having the highest bite force.
Per body weight as well, jags don't have the strongest bites overall. Plenty of bite force measurements and studies that play tigers as having higher ones.

Lions and tigers are naturally stronger than the other big cats though, but I don't think that needs to be put on any profiles 'cause it's kinda obvious
 
Eeeeh that's not necessarily true. A lioness and tigress or subadult males for either are still typically slightly larger and that doesn't necessarily mean it'd be able to beat them anyway.
Probably true for most sub populations but sumatran tiger has insular dwarfism and the length and weight range for wild adult male tigers is so wide some are less lengthy then high end jaguars and weigh less than one outlier jaguar. That page doesn't even consider the sumatran tiger when it comes to weight it just uses the bengal tiger. As for lions some lioness fall into the weight range of jaguars.
Per body weight as well, jags don't have the strongest bites overall. Plenty of bite force measurements and studies that play tigers as having higher ones.
I guess, it is weird, my basic search into the topic indicates jaguars are said to have a psi of 1500 while tigers are said to have a psi of 1100 however the tiger has a larger mouth meaning they can apply more force but less pressure.
 
Probably true for most sub populations but sumatran tiger has insular dwarfism and the length and weight range for wild adult male tigers is so wide some are less lengthy then high end jaguars and weigh less than one outlier jaguar.
Sumatran Tigers are completely different subespecies much smaller than Bengal or Siberian, ye.
That is already on the page tho
 
Sumatran Tigers are completely different subespecies much smaller than Bengal or Siberian, ye.
They are part of a different subspecies yes however Sumatran Tigers considered a subpopulation of Panthera tigris sondaica rather then a subspecies themselves technically
That is already on the page tho
That refers to particularly heavy Jaguars weighing over 135 kg, my comment refers to particularly light Lionesses "Females average 83–165 kg (183–364 lb) in Southern Africa and 90–167.8 kg (198–370 lb) in East Africa." The largest cat list uses 104.5 kg as the peak of Jaguars' normal weight range.
 
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to have a psi of 1500
If there are bite force studies out there that use psi, a measure of pressure, rather than newtons (hence bite force), it's probably super dubious.

Bite forces are generally measured via newtons or kg-force/lb-force.

Also, whatever happened to this thread? Were any changes applied or was it forgotten about? xD
 
If there are bite force studies out there that use psi, a measure of pressure, rather than newtons (hence bite force), it's probably super dubious.

Bite forces are generally measured via newtons or kg-force/lb-force.

Also, whatever happened to this thread? Were any changes applied or was it forgotten about? xD
Nope, it's just that everyone either has a life, or is trying to get one. This also applies to staff like you.
 
Nope, it's just that everyone either has a life, or is trying to get one. This also applies to staff like you.
No need for a passive aggressive answer considering my question was evidently jokey in nature.

Like, yeah, people have a life... that's neither an honest answer nor anything clever frankly, it's just basic reality which we're all aware of.

I wasn't present for this thread last time 'cause I was a little burned out with VSBW requests and whatnot, plus getting prepared for an upcoming final English exam and my birthday, hence me taking a bit of a break.

Tigers generally have stronger bite forces yes, though the tigers in these studies are also bigger than the lions featured alongside them so it's to be expected.
 
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It felt that way. Not sure if you're being sarcastic on top of that here as well, but regardless we're getting off-topic.
I don't have much social intelligence in some areas and I wanted to be more cautious in my response to try to be neutral like I usually try to be. Yes. Let's get back on topic.
 
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Lions are the king of the jungle so they win

I genuinly think we should just put 'em as comparable to eachother but thats just me
 
Lions are the king of the jungle so they win

I genuinly think we should just put 'em as comparable to eachother but thats just me
Tigers are still stronger and bigger per studies, there nothing to back Lion being strong/comparable to Tigers more than unreliable cage fights.
 
Problem with Animal fights are that they are pretty stupid and will even lose fights that they could win like Rhinos and Hippos. Also weight isn't really the biggest factor. Plus it's pretty close anyway.

Most real life fights unless Very very one sided like a Bear vs a Deer is mostly situational.
 
Problem with Animal fights are that they are pretty stupid and will even lose fights that they could win like Rhinos and Hippos. Also weight isn't really the biggest factor. Plus it's pretty close anyway.

Most real life fights unless Very very one sided like a Bear vs a Deer is mostly situational.
That's another point to be taken.

I'll introduce wildcard factors into the mix here. One of the major reasons why unpredictability is a thing is that there are things we don't know. While animals do have strength advantages and attack patterns, they can technically veer off in another direction we don't expect and have that action either be an outlier in their behaviors, or still fall within their motives and attack patterns because of 2 reasons.
  • We can't read their minds, and much of them experience strong emotions. These points still have weight even at high disparities of strength in animal fights.
 
That's another point to be taken.

I'll introduce wildcard factors into the mix here. One of the major reasons why unpredictability is a thing is that there are things we don't know. While animals do have strength advantages and attack patterns, they can technically veer off in another direction we don't expect and have that action either be an outlier in their behaviors, or still fall within their motives and attack patterns because of 2 reasons.
  • We can't read their minds, and much of them experience strong emotions. These points still have weight even at high disparities of strength in animal fights.
Most animals run before fighting even crosses their mind. Even bulls (And herbivores are very aggressive contrary to popular belief) and I am talking from experience. There was this time when a Buffalo at our farm got lose and Charged at us. Uncle pretty much made him freeze up by just yelling.
 
Most animals run before fighting even crosses their mind. Even bulls (And herbivores are very aggressive contrary to popular belief) and I am talking from experience. There was this time when a Buffalo at our farm got lose and Charged at us. Uncle pretty much made him freeze up by just yelling.
There are certain situations where this applies, and the scaling based off of scaring off animals or ones that run away is usually weak or one-sided. For situations where both intentionally animals fight or one overpowers another with both animals at full strength, that's when scaling can be done.

We even have a scan of a horse fighting evenly with a bear and not running away like horses usually do. And we have plenty of tiger v. lion scans and strength studies in this thread to where the scaring off animals isn't a big of a problem.
 
There are certain situations where this applies, and the scaling based off of scaring off animals or ones that run away is usually weak or one-sided. For situations where both intentionally animals fight or one overpowers another with both animals at full strength, that's when scaling can be done.

We even have a scan of a horse fighting evenly with a bear and not running away like horses usually do. And we have plenty of tiger v. lion scans and strength studies in this thread to where the scaring off animals isn't a big of a problem.
Yes Lions vs Tigers has happened quite a lot. This debate will go on like Coco Cola vs Pespi.
 
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