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tier upgrade Light novel tensura

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So I had to literary go back to Volume -15 once again

Things that support H3-A:
1.Those 2 statements .They 100% support H3-A However .So this is the final opinion of mine on this thread :

In Volume 15 ,Testarossa's whip was able to damage Velgrynd(Parallel existence) ,and Ultima's knives did as much as almost making Velgrynd's parallel existence paralyzed and disabled her for a while
They weren't evolved at that time and didn't even have an Ultimate skill(Though they can reach the ultimate realm by sheer willpower alone ) .To be able to damage H3-A beings while being not even planetary is absurd .

Now the counter may be that Velgrynd's parallel existence is weaker than her .No it isn't ,It has less magicule (10/20%) but is physically as strong as the original :
“It’s hard to believe, but that is Velgrynd. To be able to produce a clone of the same level as the main body, what else could this be but a nightmare? But fear not. Know that we have powerful reinforcements that also defy logic!”
 
Nihility said:
So I had to literary go back to Volume -15 once again

Things that support H3-A:
1.Those 2 statements .They 100% support H3-A However .So this is the final opinion of mine on this thread :

In Volume 15 ,Testarossa's whip was able to damage Velgrynd(Parallel existence) ,and Ultima's knives did as much as almost making Velgrynd's parallel existence paralyzed and disabled her for a while
They weren't evolved at that time and didn't even have an Ultimate skill(Though they can reach the ultimate realm by sheer willpower alone ) .To be able to damage H3-A beings while being not even planetary is absurd .

Now the counter may be that Velgrynd's parallel existence is weaker than her .No it isn't ,It has less magicule (10/20%) but is physically as strong as the original :
“It’s hard to believe, but that is Velgrynd. To be able to produce a clone of the same level as the main body, what else could this be but a nightmare? But fear not. Know that we have powerful reinforcements that also defy logic!”
Click to expand...
hm? In what ways does this support H3A? This sounds much more like an anti-feat, how would continental beings hurt an H3A being?
 
Nihility said:
They weren't evolved at that time and didn't even have an Ultimate skill(Though they can reach the ultimate realm by sheer willpower alone ) .To be able to damage H3-A beings while being not even planetary is absurd .
Click to expand...
Huh? Their attack are ultimate in nature
For a spiritual life-form, the power of will outclasses anything else. A skill is simply another form of the user’s will, created from their own desire, and an ultimate skill is the final destination that desire may reach. The demonesses wanted to see how close they could reach with their own skills, and as they concluded, there was no other option but to try it out. So, through embodying their wills, they had each come up with weapons suited uniquely for them.
Zegion’s own defenses worked just as well on ultimate skills, but still, Ultima’s knives managed to inflict a wound on his body. This was important, for it meant that the three demonesses’ attacks were ultimate in nature..
Click to expand...
Nihility said:
Ultima's knives did as much as almost making Velgrynd's parallel existence paralyzed and disabled her for a while
Click to expand...
Its by hax. Hax ≠ AP
“Oh… After all that, did it still not do much damage?”
“Your poisoned curses take time for even us to reverse, Ult. The True Dragons are extremely powerful.”
“But she doesn’t feel so unbeatable now, huh? The damage has to be building up. If we keep going—”
Before Ultima could finish, Velgrynd went on the move. With speed that not even the demonesses’ super senses could catch up with, she grabbed Ultima by the neck and slammed her to the ground.
Click to expand...
 
Dread said:
Both are from wiki. You did not do his request.
Click to expand...
This is because Infinite Prison never mentions anything else other than "infinite complex spaces" or "imaginary space" in some translations. I used what was given to make an inference. Complex spaces, imaginary spaces, complex numbers, and imaginary numbers are mathematical terms, though most people wouldn't know those terms, so I gave Wikipedia information to help.
 
Dread said:
I have a good counterargument for this. AP =/= durability.
Click to expand...
They have never been shown to have durability less than destructive power, especially Velgrynd who is one of the most resistant beings in the series, Furthermore, the Rimuru she faced is confirmed to be star level in volume 16, i.e., how could Velgrynd manage to physically fight Rimuru equally while she had continental level durability?
Thunderian said:
by hax. Hax ≠ AP
Click to expand...
It's not very fair for you to comment on Ultima's poison and ignore Testarossa and Carrera's attacks that weren't through hax, but AP, and before you say it, final level attacks have been confirmed by Ultima for doubling power, so it's not some kind of denial of durability, unless you want to give durability negation to all ultimate skill users, in which case I would be waiting for the CRT with that being accepted, because it's more like static amplification or empowerment
Bahaha said:
This is because Infinite Prison never mentions anything else other than "infinite complex spaces" or "imaginary space" in some translations. I used what was given to make an inference. Complex spaces, imaginary spaces, complex numbers, and imaginary numbers are mathematical terms, though most people wouldn't know those terms, so I gave Wikipedia information to help.
Click to expand...
Community asked you to use what was provided within Tensura, looking up meanings within the wiki does not support your argument very much
 
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Peak said:
They have never been shown to have durability less than destructive power, especially Velgrynd who is one of the most resistant beings in the series, Furthermore, the Rimuru she faced is confirmed to be star level in volume 16, i.e., how could Velgrynd manage to physically fight Rimuru equally while she had continental level durability?
Click to expand...
Thanks for pointing this out. Fair enough.
 
If I'm to say my honest opinion, we should wait for CP to finish if he reads volume 15, he is also very knowledgeable about the series so I think it would be advantageous, as he would be a trusted administrator for that
 
Peak said:
Community asked you to use what was provided within Tensura, looking up meanings within the wiki does not support your argument very much
Click to expand...
"though most people wouldn't know those terms, so I gave Wikipedia information to help."
 
Dread said:
No, we know them, but it is irrelevant what we know, definition of those terms should be given in Tensura.
Click to expand...
"This is because Infinite Prison never mentions anything else other than "infinite complex spaces" or "imaginary space" in some translations. I used what was given to make an inference." If anyone can find more information about "imaginary spaces" in Tensura than what we have already said, then do tell.

After rechecking volume 11, the only other volume to give more information inside Infinite Prison, I found this:
“I know what Rimuru is thinking. I—Chloe had the same idea in the past too. But it didn’t work. Didn’t I say this before? The remnants of Hinata’s soul are also trapped in the ‘Infinite Prison.’ It’s a chaotic void, where everything mixes together. As someone who was born there, I can tell you that Hinata’s ‘Mathematician’ is probably integrated in that void already—”
- Chapter 5, The Hero's Awakening

So far, we know nothing useful.
 
Peak said:
It's not very fair for you to comment on Ultima's poison and ignore Testarossa and Carrera's attacks that weren't through hax, but AP, and before you say it, final level attacks have been confirmed by Ultima for doubling power, so it's not some kind of denial of durability, unless you want to give durability negation to all ultimate skill users, in which case I would be waiting for the CRT with that being accepted, because it's more like static amplification or empowerment
Click to expand...
Are you read the first scan? Or is it not clear enough for you? Or you ignore this?
Thunderian said:
Huh? Their attack are ultimate in nature
Click to expand...
Zegion have Distortion Field which is one of ability of Absolute Defense. Absolute Defense is application of Infinite Prison. And that trio demoness can give damage to Zegion because their attack are ultimate in nature. ULTIMATE IN NATURE.
For a spiritual life-form, the power of will outclasses anything else. A skill is simply another form of the user’s will, created from their own desire, and an ultimate skill is the final destination that desire may reach. The demonesses wanted to see how close they could reach with their own skills, and as they concluded, there was no other option but to try it out. So, through embodying their wills, they had each come up with weapons suited uniquely for them.
Zegion’s own defenses worked just as well on ultimate skills, but still, Ultima’s knives managed to inflict a wound on his body. This was important, for it meant that the three demonesses’ attacks were ultimate in nature.
Click to expand...
That damn 'Ultimate In Nature' is important things for give damage to the ultimate being, just like True Dragon and those who have Ultimate Skill or those who equals to Ultimate being like Zegion.
 
You should know that Will is like everything in Tensura. Even True Dragon is Will itself (They're the Holy Will of Nature). And skill is another form of Will.

so, if you want to give damage to Will, you should have Will that can outclassed that Will.
 
Bahaha said:
"This is because Infinite Prison never mentions anything else other than "infinite complex spaces" or "imaginary space" in some translations. I used what was given to make an inference." If anyone can find more information about "imaginary spaces" in Tensura than what we have already said, then do tell.

After rechecking volume 11, the only other volume to give more information inside Infinite Prison, I found this:
“I know what Rimuru is thinking. I—Chloe had the same idea in the past too. But it didn’t work. Didn’t I say this before? The remnants of Hinata’s soul are also trapped in the ‘Infinite Prison.’ It’s a chaotic void, where everything mixes together. As someone who was born there, I can tell you that Hinata’s ‘Mathematician’ is probably integrated in that void already—”
- Chapter 5, The Hero's Awakening

So far, we know nothing useful.
Click to expand...
So if the series makes no attempt to further elaborate on the ability then fine. So who does one argue with validity that Infinite Prison or the Imaginary spaces its composed of, should equate to spatial dimensions?

That's the part I'm not getting. I can see the argument but not the justification behind it because clearly the series never attempts a comparison. And its not like their even similar in composition.
 
Community_Gamer said:
So if the series makes no attempt to further elaborate on the ability then fine. So who does one argue with validity that Infinite Prison or the Imaginary spaces its composed of, should equate to spatial dimensions?

That's the part I'm not getting. I can see the argument but not the justification behind it because clearly the series never attempts a comparison. And its not like their even similar in composition.
Click to expand...
i do.

Imaginary or not, it's still there and is still infinite regardless of that it is composed of as anything as long as it's infinite 3D is accepted as H3A.

Even an empty infinite space is still 3D

Creating an infinite 3D energy too is accepted as H3A.

As long as it's infinite, regardless of what it is will be H3A.
 
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Guretodesu said:
i do.

Imaginary or not, it's still there and is still infinite regardless of that it is composed of as anything as long as it's infinite 3D is accepted as H3A.

Even an empty infinite space is still 3D

Creating an infinite 3D energy too is accepted as H3A.

As long as it's infinite, regardless of what it is will be H3A.
Click to expand...
Yeah you didn't understand what I was trying to say whatsoever. Are you saying if I created a universe in my (or a character) dreams that it'd a H3A feat?
 
Thunderian said:
Are you read the first scan? Or is it not clear enough for you? Or you ignore this?

Zegion have Distortion Field which is one of ability of Absolute Defense. Absolute Defense is application of Infinite Prison. And that trio demoness can give damage to Zegion because their attack are ultimate in nature. ULTIMATE IN NATURE.

That damn 'Ultimate In Nature' is important things for give damage to the ultimate being, just like True Dragon and those who have Ultimate Skill or those who equals to Ultimate being like Zegion.
Click to expand...
Yes, i read it and i still don't understand how this contributes to your point, skills represent the user's own will and ultimate skill is on top of that, what the trio was doing was amplifying their attacks to the final level through desire itself, and an attack using the power of ultimate skill was stated by Ultima as something to double the power
The battles that followed offered a great many lessons. True Dragons, already the most powerful beings in the world, exhibited highly precise, sophisticated magic manipulation. That allowed them to fully overwhelm Ultima and the demonesses, despite their own magic skills. Ultima had no idea how Velgrynd pulled that off mid-battle, but now she did. The secret lay in applying an ultimate skill to your magic.
An ultimate skill gives you a lot more precision over your magic control, right? No wonder we couldn’t beat her at all.
Velgrynd was doing little more than keeping the demonesses at bay, but even that was too much for Ultima to overcome back then. And for Carrera, a self-styled magic expert, seeing someone handle it so much better than her was a humiliation.
Yes, a humiliation…but also a stroke of good luck. She enjoyed the opportunity to experience that battle, and she survived without tasting a decisive defeat. Never until now did Ultima consider that simply incorporating the effects of a skill into magic could potentially double its power. Now that this battle was behind her, she was quickly realizing some new possibilities.
Click to expand...
Thunderian said:
You should know that Will is like everything in Tensura. Even True Dragon is Will itself (They're the Holy Will of Nature). And skill is another form of Will.

so, if you want to give damage to Will, you should have Will that can outclassed that Will.
Click to expand...
You argue this, but the trio had no greater willpower than Velgrynd at that time, who had an ultimate skill that is the pinnacle you can reach with your willpower

anyway, that's another thing that isn't relevant to the main point anyway, so I'll leave it alone for now
 
Community_Gamer said:
Yeah you didn't understand what I was trying to say whatsoever. Are you saying if I created a universe in my (or a character) dreams that it'd a H3A feat?
Click to expand...
clearly it is you who doesn't understand anything.

Creating something in your mind is different.

Unlimited prison might be called imaginary space but "it exists"

Not only in mind. Like that's a complete different thing, is it that hard to comprehend
 
Y'all fighting over a term, but that has never been clarified by author at all. Just stop arguing using a no basis evidence.
 
And the definition of “imaginary space” as well. (and if you used wikipedia, your argument will be invalid)
 
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