Tier Low 6-B Tournament of Heroes and Villains: Thundurus vs Afterstory Kouki

[DemonicDude]

Group A (Match 3) :
Rules:

• Same Rules as stated in the Tournament.
• Speed Equalized
• Distance: Fighting distance for every matchup will be 30 meters.
• Location: Z-City

Noneless 21 makes his debut in my tournament against the Electrcity pokemon.
"Smartphone and necklace of Kouki are restricted"

Noneless21 vs psychomaster35

Results:
Thundurus:
Kouki Amanogawa: 7 (DD, Nicetoderp, Expectro, Noneless, Fanta, Aachinya, Imaginym)
incon:

VS

 

[Noneless21]

Hoo boy this is gonna be interesting

 

[Noneless21]

So, since i'm the one who propose him, might as well debate for him... with the debate i copypasted...

Anyway, here is the general idea about the verse's skill level

Spoiler: General skill of Arifureta by Master Expectro

An human, who in verse is just decently skilled, is able to act perfectly normal while having his senses sealed (btw this character is unable to use magic or any supernatural power, so this is completely a pure skill feat). Acting without a sense or various senses is somehing consistent through the verse, with characters like Chris (who thanks to his battle honed instincts can dodge invisible spatial attacks), Vanessa (who had her eyesight robbed by a flashbang and even so could move in a room full of armed men), Gahard (who can not only defend against the ranged attacks of 120 Haulia from all directions with just the sound of the attacks alone while in complete darkness, but he can also do the same while having both his sight and hearing impaired do to the effects of flashbangs) or Detref (who could fight without any problem inside a fog with magical effects that affect the senses of the enemies inside), it's also said how just third-rate warriors relied just in their sight in a fight, and there are several more examples of situations of people fighting without be able to rely on their senses, some of which will appear in following scans.

Normal humans, humans unable to use any unique energy or supernatural power, can also do some extreme martial and acrobatics feats with high level of precision. Like for example the ones displayed in the fight between Kimberley and Allen (btw, the Berserkers mentioned are mutants created with a virus whihc transform people in strong monsters that can't die unless their brain is destroyed and who have potent regeneration), the fight of Vanessa vs Berserker Monkeys, the Allen vs Weiss, when Allen helped Taeko against demons and possessed fanatics (the demons were creatures invisible, that Allen couldn't sense nor perceive or even interact in any way and he only knew they were there, while the possessed fanatics were people with higher specs do to be possessed), when Sabas fought against the soldiers of the futuristic empire, in the whole Fukube vs onmyoujis fight (the onmyoujis were humans able to use special powers, that additionally summoned fantasy creatures called shikis which are basically monsters with some special trait), or the casual Ulfrick vs Altina fight (elfs in the verse don't have magic or any special power, so besides their longer lives and beauty they are just normal humans) there is also how Liliana (a princess that never in her life had physical combat training) mastered Aikido from internet videos which is a decent martial feat. While not actually a martial or acrobatic feat, there are some good precision feats from childs, like the first time Myu used a weapon (Myu had 6 years and this was like two weeks after meet Hajime and become his foster daugther) or Par who sniped apostles from 5km below (Par is a 10 years old child).

The verse also have show groups with high skill regarding warfare, as show with the Haulia clan when they annihilated the demon forces that invaded the Haltina forest (the same demon forces that almost killed a completely serious Ulfrick if the Haulia didn't saved him). Canonically the Yaegashi clan (a group of completely normal humans) is comparable with the Haulia clan and each have show to share and learn from the other clan, the Yaegashi clan is considered the leader of the ninja clans and are each member have deathly daily training regardless of their age or occupation, are a group that can casually try to kill Hajime and who have defeated the elite forces of multiple countries who attacked he Returnees families (which should had the level of characters like Allen, Fukube and even Sabas).

Plus his skill feats at his profiles, he's a pretty skilled swordsman

To top it all, he has instinctive reaction against Thundurus' attacks and his instinctive reaction is better than a random mob that also has crazy instinct so it'll be damn hard to tag him, and that's not counting his FTE speed amp

 

[DemonicDude]

Attack Potency:
Kouki: 3.44 Teratons
3.82 Teratons
They are roughly the same.

Thundurus arguments
1-Stats amps
2- Moves and attacks

 

[Noneless21]

Attack potency doesn't really matter since Kouki has RE/AD anyway, his foresight will allow him to know Thundurus's next move so it'll be easy to beat Thundurus me thinks

 

[DemonicDude]

We need pokemon supporters here for a proper debate.

 

[Noneless21]

We need pokemon supporters here for a proper debate.

Indeed we do, so yeah i don't mind waiting but imma go to sleep now sooooo

See ya

 

[DemonicDude]

About Kouki

Limit Break is only a 3x amp to all his stats and boost his thought process, it doesn't grant anything besides that, though anyways for the purposes of this tourntament it would had be restricted since with it he is 10.32 Teratons. At practical effects his only real haxs were light manip, healing, wind manip, platform creation, weapon control and crazy skill, the other things aren't really used in combat.

 

[Imaginym]

Attack Potency:
Kouki: 3.44 Teratons
3.82 Teratons
They are roughly the same.

Thundurus arguments
1-Stats amps
2- Moves and attacks

I was asked to comment here. I was linked in the moves & attacks section, where I posted basically all of Thundurus's Pokedex entries & relevant Electric-type moves.

The details are in the post of mine linked in the "Moves and attacks" section in DemonicDude's post that I'm quoting in this post of mine. I encourage checking it; It'd be very wordy to recite here.

But an approximate summary is that Thundurus's in-character behaviour is something like "materialize out of nowhere" & "pulverize" foes with "showers of devastatingly powerful lightning bolts"; In other words, spam electricity manipulation.

Some of its attacks, such as Discharge, Shock Wave &/or Wildbolt Storm (Its signature move.) may have some AoE. I also don't know if the winds of it can lift Kouki, nor how he'd fare if launched airborne.

I'd presume Thundurus isn't going to do stuff other than use Electricity Manipulation (Acting at random like in the games may be game mechanic, & I'm not sure if it has any distinct behaviour in Legends: Arceus.) unless it's evident Electricity Manipulation isn't working.

Which key is Kouki in? What are his win conditions (I assume he has many.), & notable abilities?

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Just saw this and will read the thing of the pokemon, but first of all I recommend the op to make clear that both the smartphone and necklace of Kouki are restricted, the former grant infinite revives and the latter give infinite stamina but since is possible to restrict both artifact then there is no real problem. Also I guess to make clear that he can't use his Limit Break and Overload (3x and 5 amps), at least not unless the other character have their own amp (which being a pokemon I suppose he have them? The Kamen Rider guys at least are supposed to have dozen of amps so in cases like that I believe is fair to not restrict Kouki amps).

Edit: Right now I will eat so in a few minutes is that I will read what the pokemon can do.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

So, since i'm the one who propose him, might as well debate for him... with the debate i copypasted...

Anyway, here is the general idea about the verse's skill level

Spoiler: General skill of Arifureta by Master Expectro

An human, who in verse is just decently skilled, is able to act perfectly normal while having his senses sealed (btw this character is unable to use magic or any supernatural power, so this is completely a pure skill feat). Acting without a sense or various senses is somehing consistent through the verse, with characters like Chris (who thanks to his battle honed instincts can dodge invisible spatial attacks), Vanessa (who had her eyesight robbed by a flashbang and even so could move in a room full of armed men), Gahard (who can not only defend against the ranged attacks of 120 Haulia from all directions with just the sound of the attacks alone while in complete darkness, but he can also do the same while having both his sight and hearing impaired do to the effects of flashbangs) or Detref (who could fight without any problem inside a fog with magical effects that affect the senses of the enemies inside), it's also said how just third-rate warriors relied just in their sight in a fight, and there are several more examples of situations of people fighting without be able to rely on their senses, some of which will appear in following scans.

Normal humans, humans unable to use any unique energy or supernatural power, can also do some extreme martial and acrobatics feats with high level of precision. Like for example the ones displayed in the fight between Kimberley and Allen (btw, the Berserkers mentioned are mutants created with a virus whihc transform people in strong monsters that can't die unless their brain is destroyed and who have potent regeneration), the fight of Vanessa vs Berserker Monkeys, the Allen vs Weiss, when Allen helped Taeko against demons and possessed fanatics (the demons were creatures invisible, that Allen couldn't sense nor perceive or even interact in any way and he only knew they were there, while the possessed fanatics were people with higher specs do to be possessed), when Sabas fought against the soldiers of the futuristic empire, in the whole Fukube vs onmyoujis fight (the onmyoujis were humans able to use special powers, that additionally summoned fantasy creatures called shikis which are basically monsters with some special trait), or the casual Ulfrick vs Altina fight (elfs in the verse don't have magic or any special power, so besides their longer lives and beauty they are just normal humans) there is also how Liliana (a princess that never in her life had physical combat training) mastered Aikido from internet videos which is a decent martial feat. While not actually a martial or acrobatic feat, there are some good precision feats from childs, like the first time Myu used a weapon (Myu had 6 years and this was like two weeks after meet Hajime and become his foster daugther) or Par who sniped apostles from 5km below (Par is a 10 years old child).

The verse also have show groups with high skill regarding warfare, as show with the Haulia clan when they annihilated the demon forces that invaded the Haltina forest (the same demon forces that almost killed a completely serious Ulfrick if the Haulia didn't saved him). Canonically the Yaegashi clan (a group of completely normal humans) is comparable with the Haulia clan and each have show to share and learn from the other clan, the Yaegashi clan is considered the leader of the ninja clans and are each member have deathly daily training regardless of their age or occupation, are a group that can casually try to kill Hajime and who have defeated the elite forces of multiple countries who attacked he Returnees families (which should had the level of characters like Allen, Fukube and even Sabas).

Plus his skill feats at his profiles, he's a pretty skilled swordsman

To top it all, he has instinctive reaction against Thundurus' attacks and his instinctive reaction is better than a random mob that also has crazy instinct so it'll be damn hard to tag him, and that's not counting his FTE speed amp

In the case of Kouki is also needed to add his own skill feats, which I more or less did to the most skilled list a short time ago but never actually posted it:

Spoiler: Kouki Skill

Has trained in the Yaegashi school of martial arts ever since he was a child, and he was skilled enough to compete in national tournaments (by this point Kouki was trash so he didn't really reach the level of a true disciple of the Yaegashi style, but still count as a decent skill).

Upon being summoned to Tortus, he was trained by the best martial artist there in sword arts and is among the top fighters in the world (this is important because it mean that by this point he was at the very least comparable to people like Meld or Gahard which is proven right time later when he defeated people stated to be of Meld level, though to our purposes at this point he was still trash do to his personality weakness).

After the end of the war against Ehit he decided to try to change and redeem himself by hunting alone the remmants of the monsters created by Ehit that spread through the world, thing that made him go as far as one time hunt for three days straight without rest monsters without getting too injuried.

A year after begin his hunting Kouki was summoned to another world that didn't had magic (and thus his recovery rate was lower) and in this world that was in a war (against beings who absorbed the life of those around them) Kouki finally made his resolve of fight even if he needed to kill, so he began to fight to protect an entire city from an army of ten thousands (to protect the whole city he created a big barrier that covered it, which he needed to maintain for days so he couldn't use his magic for things besides sustain the barrier, and only spared a minimal amount of magic to use a bit of recovery magic, though he couldn't even cast minor healing magic after some time). After that he fought really hard for half a day (the full scan of all this scene is here, the following two scans are just specific parts of the fight so that point can be see more easily), and after almost reach death doors, do to see his life in front of his eyes, his resolve strengthened and he decided to fight even if he body got completely destroyed, which made him awaken the suicidal type technique War Demon which let one move their body despite the injuries but without suppressing the pain or healing at all the wounds which mean that it only let the user continue to move until their body is irreparable, and in such weakened state he relearned and mastered the Yaegashi style which is a style that revolve around the concept of the weak overthrowing the strong, everything with the sole purpose of continue to fight until his last breath to protect the city behind him. After almost three days of continous fighting Kouki had greatly reduced the enemies numbers, and is standing uncounscious while fighting, completely covered in wounds, bathed in his own blood, with the ribcage distorted and the arms broken, it's also show how he in such state reached one of the summit of swordmanship and become a sword saint with a sword that can't be perceived.

After such extreme fight he fell asleep for four days and when he finally woke up he needed to fight against another army, this time an army of dozen of thousands and he need to fight the king of the dark beings who is above all his race. In such fight is show how thanks to reach a sword summit, he have reached a mental state called Serene Mind that make impossible to anyone read or feel anything from him and his sword, not even Koone who have senses and perception so good that she can read people minds can't feel anything from Kouki in such state, even the Dark King can't perceive him and although it looked as if Kouki had problems when he was trying to peacefully settle things, the moment he decided that was impossible and entered in his Serene Mind state the Dark King was absolutely unable to do anything to him despite his numbers advantage, danmaky, instantaneous teleportation and massive strength, he was completely unable to perceive his sword or anything from him. After kill the Dark King fought against the dozens of thousands dark beings making the human side win the war.

Just a day after the fight against the Dark King and the dark beings army Kouki along Hajime was summoned to yet another world, this time a futuristic one full of robots and where his stats were immensely reduced, along with his recovery rate and ability to use magic (do to the environment of the planet they couldn't use magic externally, and if they tried they would just be able to use two or three basic spells and they would be completely exhausted). In those unfavorable conditions he first fought against hundreds of machines soldiers with problem, then the next day he together with Hajime defeated a thousand upperworld machine soldiers, a combined upperworld machine soldiers and heaven machine soldiers (upgraded versions of the normal machine soldiers, the combined versions are machine soldiers that mix together at least to different types of upperworld machine soldiers, heaven machine soldiers are the strongest type of machine soldiers which on top of higher capabilitites have a metal liquid body that can freely shapeshift and regen as long the small core inside them isn't destroyed), and some hours later he was able to even face a hundred thousand heaven machine soldiers (at one point he got his magic back and fought with it to defeat them all, but most of the fight he didn't had it and needed to fight just with his sword which he was using to stop and defeat several hundred enemies in one go), showing his fast growing. Another thing that showed his growing was how in middle of combat do to pure necessity he learned to redirect and send back bullets and lasers (his sword also developed the ability to extend which Kouki now incorporate in his fighting style), essentially defending and attacking at the same time while solving his range problem, he also developed in those conditions a new fighting style that change constantly with his sword changing its form each second to become a different type of sword (this include swords like great sword, katana, thorn sword, urumi, etc.). Against these robots with futuristic weapons, sensors and high calculation power, it was proven that Kouki even machines can't react to his movements and that even Mother with all her calculation and analytical power (her calculation and analytical power is at the level that she can reconstruct from the scrap of a explosion, a machine able to teleport to other worlds) can't perfectly react against a serious Kouki to the point of be forced to recognize him as a superhuman like Hajime and someone that she need to face with all her abilitites (instead of just using martial arts like she initially wanted). This entire arc is really amazing regarding skill feats, but since they are various chapters of almost ten thousand words each I only posted the small fragments from above.

Then just after awake from the battle against the hundred thousand heaven machine soldiers Kouki fought against millions of apparitions (abstract beings with unique powers based on the legends and conception that form them), though in this battle Kouki wasn't nerfed or restricted in any way so he was able to use magic normally so isn't that much of a skill feat compared with the previous things but definitely count to his experience, although even then through this battle he got a second sword comparable to his holy sword so now he fight with a dual wielding style.

 

[DemonicDude]

I think it's clear that skill advantage goes to Kouki.

 

[Imaginym]

Thundurus does have some means of Statistics Manipulation, but isn't necessarily likely to use them.

So, you're saying Kouki doesn't amp unless his opponent amps? What happens if Kouki himself becomes debuffed?

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Thundurus does have some means of Statistics Manipulation, but isn't necessarily likely to use them.

So, you're saying Kouki doesn't amp unless his opponent amps? What happens if Kouki himself becomes debuffed?

No, what I mean is that since is a Low 6-B tournamente, and Kouki with his amps go above the Low 6-B limit, his amps should really be unrestricted in the tournament if the opponent have similar amps that make them go above 7 teratons.

He got this tier in this key do to fight a super AI and her army of robots while he was super weakened (like not only his stats himself but his recovery and magic were also affected, he basically couldn't use anything besides his sword with techniques that relied in the concept of the weaker defeating the stronger).

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

So just finished to read the arguments about Thundurus so will comment about them.

Regarding the speed amp with Agility it seem that he can potentially reach a 4x speed increase, but based on Imaginym comment I suppose that normally Thundurus will go with normal electric attacks instead of trying to go with a strategy like using 6 times Agility. Though even if he use it isn't really much of a problem to Kouki, a less skilled Shizuku than this Kouki could face without any problems Apostles when their speed advantage was like 3.99x (based on the values to which they scale with the calcs I made), Kouki himself also have Supersonic Step which is a unquantifiable speed amp (it can let him move FTE to comparable foes, but that isn't something really quantifiable so), his Forsight would also help him since that is a analytical prediction skill, then there are also his own senses and instincts that would help him react better against a faster enemy and even his glasses which grant a great perception amp, though is uncertain if he would use them in a normal situation.

And about the electric attacks, Kouki himself have resistance to electricity and his armor itself also have it, along with his magical defense and physical strengthening whcih reduce the damage received, so while he certainly isn't going to just tank them face on without a scratch he certainly should be able to withstand the attacks considerably well. Kouki could use light barriers to block them or just directly dodge the attacks if the aoe isn't massive, I think he can even redirect the attacks back with his sword techniques. Regarding the wind argument Thundurus is Class T while in this key and end Kouki is Class E so he probably can't send him flying, though even if he could is questionable how useful it would be considering that Kouki have platform creation that he use a lot to fight in the sky and even his wind magic can be used to move through the air.

Which key is Kouki in? What are his win conditions (I assume he has many.), & notable abilities?

After Stories Kouki. Aside from skill and combat techniques he can also make his sword kilometers in size to attack, can use various different light and wind attacks which you can see listed in the magic and techniques section, the most noteworthy one however is his Divine Wrath of a Thousand Forms - Dragon Form that let him create a light dragon kilometers in size with a devastating power, is his strongest magic and beside the power itself the thing also have a high amount of heat and can change of form to Kouki wishes.

Edit: Also, forgot more or less mention it because I included that inside the skill part, but do to Kouki skill he can enter in a mind state called Serene Mind, in this state his moves are so natural and perfectly done that not even super AIs can perfectly react to them despite their sensors detecting the moves.

 

[Imaginym]

I wonder if Kouki's Resistance to Electricity Manipulation provides Resistance to the Paralysis Status condition. I'm not familiar with how the other media portrays it, but in games, it's a 50% (Previously 75%) Speed reduction & a 25% chance to be unable to act ("Fully paralyzed", fans unofficially call it.) per turn.

Given that Kouki resists, would there be anything indicating his resistance? Visuals, sounds, him speaking about it? Otherwise, Thundurus might not realize the resistance.

 

[Imaginym]

Oh & I suppose there's also this:

• Prankster: Incarnate Forme only. Any moves Thundurus uses that don't do direct damage have their priority increased. These moves fail if used on a Dark Type however.

The "Priority" increase (In gameplay, what decide move order; What goes first & such.) from Prankster only applies to Status Category moves, if that wasn't evident.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

I wonder if Kouki's Resistance to Electricity Manipulation provides Resistance to the Paralysis Status condition. I'm not familiar with how the other media portrays it, but in games, it's a 50% (Previously 75%) Speed reduction & a 25% chance to be unable to act ("Fully paralyzed", fans unofficially call it.) per turn.

Given that Kouki resists, would there be anything indicating his resistance? Visuals, sounds, him speaking about it? Otherwise, Thundurus might not realize the resistance.

In this key when they fought against Mother who used lightning Hajime could recover faster than the others from the paralysis (it lasted like a moment) do to have the strongest electric resistance between them, Kouki recovered a moment after him do to have the second strongest electric resistance, and this was a Kouki who as I said was incredible nerfed stat wise and power wise so his resistance was likely considerably lower than normal.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

This is also only accounting his resistance to the electricity/paralysis, but he can do things like use healing magic like Divine Veil which cast constantly magic to heal or Vast Sky which specialize in removing status effects.

 

[Nicetoderp]

What is the current arguments for both side?

A detailed one.

 

[DemonicDude]

What is the current arguments for both side?

A detailed one.

kouki with amps would exceed low 6-b limit so we are capping him out are 7 Teratons max, Kouki holds skill advantage. Thundurus has
Statistics Manipulation, but isn't necessarily likely to use them being a Pokemon he'll get 4x speed increase with Kouki himself also have Supersonic Step which is a unquantifiable speed amp as well as Analytical prediction to counter Thunudrus. Kouki himself have resistance to electricity and his armor itself also have it, along with his magical defensem for nowI vote for Kouki but if more arguments made Expectro agree with Imaginym i'll switch votes.

 

[Nicetoderp]

Hmm I think I vote Kouki since he can also debuff cleanse himself.

 

[Noneless21]

yeah Kouki FRA until Pokemon supporter came by and drop their arguments

 

[Imaginym]

I don't know well Thundurus's characterization in the non-game media, but what I do know inspires little confidence in me about its capabilities in this match-up.

If I understand Kouki's statistics right & Thundurus had the sense to, it could try to abuse the range advantage.

Kouki:
Several Kilometers, Interdimensional with Fairy Key and Fairy Ring (Can travel to different worlds, said worlds have different flows of time) (That IS Kouki's After Stories Key's Range, right?)

Thundurus:
Standard melee range. Hundreds of kilometers with projectiles and abilities (Likely comparable to Tornadus in this regard).

Semi-omnidirectional attacks like Shock Wave, Discharge & maybe Wildbolt Storm might be helpful in this regard. Maybe Uproar if Thundurus decided to try that. (It rampaging & such seem in-character, so I can see it going for the attack that's just making a ton of noise.)

If it saw Kouki Healing, it could use Heal Block to disable that, but Heal Block's attacks last only 5 "turns".

Charge will raise Thundurus's Special Defense (Defense against non-physical attacks.), & double the power of Thundurus's next Electric-type move.

Extrasensory might be able to hit Kouki independent of movement. Haven't checked how it's depicted. Description is "The user attacks with an odd, unseeable power. This may also make the target flinch."

Non-attacking moves like Agility, Nasty Plot, Charge, Heal Block, will be made "faster" by higher priority from Prankster.


So Thundurus's best chance might be to just try to stay out of Range via Flight, & abuse having higher range by spamming omnidirectional or harder to dodge attacks like Discharge, Shock Wave, Wildbolt Storm, Uproar, etc. & if it realizes to do so, prevent Kouki from healing for "5 turns" worth of time at a time by using Heal Block.
Agility & Nasty Plot raise Speed, & Sp. Atk by 2 stat stages each, respectively. From an unmodified stat stage, each +1 would be 50% per boost. So each would raise their respective stat by 100% of Thundurus's base. Meaning it'd take 3 uses of them to get to the limit of 400%.

So having 4x Speed &/or 4x Sp. Atk might be helpful, but Thundurus would need to find the opportunity for doing those, like 3 times.


Nonetheless, the strategy I outlined for Thundurus also necessitates it match or better Kouki's Stamina; Thundurus would still have to use Stamina, performing attacks, Flying out of range, possibly dodging, etc.

I'll wait for discussion of such strategy.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Kouki FRA!

Edit: Wait, wait, never mind. Let me think.

 

[Noneless21]

The thing is Kouki also has a glasses that can boost his perception speed up to 12 times so he's not going to get outsped in many ways

 

[Imaginym]

The thing is Kouki also has a glasses that can boost his perception speed up to 12 times so he's not going to get outsped in many ways

Nonetheless, Omnidirectional, Outranging Spam might be an option.

 

[Noneless21]

Nonetheless, Omnidirectional, Outranging Spam might be an option.

the thing about it is that he will know Thundurus will try to range spam him so he will range spam Thundurus back using danmaku or just FTE speed amp himself to slice Thundurus off

 

[Imaginym]

the thing about it is that he will know Thundurus will try to range spam him so he will range spam Thundurus back using danmaku or just FTE speed amp himself to slice Thundurus off

1. He'll know why?
2.
Kouki:
Several Kilometers, Interdimensional with Fairy Key and Fairy Ring (Can travel to different worlds, said worlds have different flows of time) (That IS Kouki's After Stories Key's Range, right?)

Thundurus:
Standard melee range. Hundreds of kilometers with projectiles and abilities (Likely comparable to Tornadus in this regard).

Fly dozens or hundreds of kilometers into the air, attack from there. Kouki can't reach, & it'll be questionable if Kouki can jump high enough. & being faster doesn't mean being able to one-shot.

 

[Noneless21]

1. He'll know why?
2.
Kouki:
Several Kilometers, Interdimensional with Fairy Key and Fairy Ring (Can travel to different worlds, said worlds have different flows of time) (That IS Kouki's After Stories Key's Range, right?)

Thundurus:
Standard melee range. Hundreds of kilometers with projectiles and abilities (Likely comparable to Tornadus in this regard).

Fly dozens or hundreds of kilometers into the air, attack from there. Kouki can't reach, & it'll be questionable if Kouki can jump high enough. & being faster doesn't mean being able to one-shot.

because his enhanced sense is good enough to know what his opponent's moves was, that's why he'll knew what'll Thundurus will do with his sense alone

plus his foresight, except you saying Thundurus can immediately teleport itself outside his range immediately or something similar

Edit: sorry, what I meant is that he will knew Thundurus gonna do something that's not in his favor so he'll try to end the fight quickly

 

[Imaginym]

because his enhanced sense is good enough to know what his opponent's moves was, that's why he'll knew what'll Thundurus will do with his sense alone

Okay, so he knows what his opponent does even if they're out of Kouki's range, how is he evading an omnidirectional attack?
Speaking theoretically, knowing an expanding sphere of pain is coming your way doesn't mean you have a way to dodge it.

plus his foresight, except you saying Thundurus can immediately teleport itself outside his range immediately or something similar

I'm not claiming Thundurus will teleport, I'm saying it can Fly out of range against an opponent who can't fly & whom Thundurus's attacks have greater range than.

 

[Noneless21]

Okay, so he knows what his opponent does even if they're out of range, how is he evading an omnidirectional attack?

this is an issue tbh, but what I'm trying to debate here is that Kouki will try to end the fight before Thundurus able to fly off outside his range since he'll knew it'll be a bad idea to let an opponent go outside his effective range

oh, btw, he has boots that can make platforms in the air

 

[Imaginym]

this is an issue tbh, but what I'm trying to debate here is that Kouki will try to end the fight before Thundurus able to fly off outside his range since he'll knew it'll be a bad idea to let an opponent go outside his effective range

How will he know from the start that Thundurus has a greater range of attack than him?

Yes, Kouki could foresee an attack, but:
1. That attack might be a vision of it that doesn't show the full scale of
2. The attack or show it going to a range from which Kouki can't reach
3. Thundurus in that vision might not be out of Kouki's range for Kouki to realize he'll be outranged.

Also, remind me, how does Kouki's foreseeing foe's attacks work again?

oh, btw, he has boots that can make platforms in the air

I will admit, Kouki can probably realize a Flying foe can leave his range, but as you said, he can pursue using boots of platform creation. Speaking of, how do those work?
Also, are those boots & platforms durable to survive the attacks? & is it in-character for him to use those against Flying foes?

 

[Noneless21]

Also, remind me, how does Kouki's foreseeing foe's attacks work again?

Foresight works as analytical prediction as it allows him to predict his opponent's next move

Also, are those boots & platforms durable to survive the attacks? & is it in-character for him to use those against Flying foes?

I'll be perfectly honest with you, most of his fights generally consist of him protecting like a city or the world tree so I don't remember he use his boots to fight his opponents, but he once had it before afterstory so he should be able to use it well enough

and if you didn't know it yet, I suck at debating

Edit: also, Boots allow him to create a transparent platform in the air immediately under his feet

 

[Imaginym]

Foresight works as analytical prediction as it allows him to predict his opponent's next move

I'll be perfectly honest with you, most of his fights generally consist of him protecting like a city or the world tree so I don't remember he use his boots to fight his opponents, but he once had it before afterstory so he should be able to use it well enough

and if you didn't know it yet, I suck at debating

Edit: also, Boots allow him to create a transparent platform in the air immediately under his feet

No need to be so harsh on yourself, I appreciate your efforts, & have been nicely reasonable so far.

It sounds like it's semi-OoC for him to use them, but I can see that he might use them with Foresight.

Can he jump good? I mean, he is in armor, but on the other hand, Class E....

 

[Aachintya31]

Kouki FRA

 

[Noneless21]

No need to be so harsh on yourself, I appreciate your efforts, & have been nicely reasonable so far.

It sounds like it's semi-OoC for him to use them, but I can see that he might use them with Foresight.

Can he jump good? I mean, he is in armor, but on the other hand, Class E....

that's the thing though, he, like almost never aggro on somebody only to his lover the Demon King Nagumo Hajime but yeah Class E is not gonna hinder him from jumping, and he's pretty agile himself

 

[Imaginym]

Right then, it sounds like Kouki, annoyingly, has the Skill Advantage, Resistances, Abilities & means to deal with Thundurus, even if it flew to outrange & spammed Heal Block & stat amped.

Frustrating, but it seems reasonable.

I'm also voting Kouki.

 

[DemonicDude]

Grace

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Just to note, is absolutely in character for Kouki to use either his boost to fly throught the air with platform creation, use light barriers as platforms to do the same in case he don't have the boost (literally his first fight in the after stories was him using the barriers to fight mid air against a flying enemy, and that wss because he didn't had his normal equipment, boost included), and even use his wind magic to use gust of wind that move him (he don't outright fly with it but instead use it as a way to support his air movement). The platforms and barriers have comparable durability so they aren't really frail (more basic barrier spells are relatively more frail but in exchange the strong barrier spells like Hallowed Ground are significantly more powerful).

Thundurus could outrange yes, but that would only be if Kouki let him move various kilometerd without trying to do anything (his sword itself can extend 3 kilometers, though other characters believed he could make it 13 kilometers long, and with magic like his dragon of light he can affect an entire city + mountain the size of the everest), they also begin 30 meters apart so to outrange him Kouki really would need to just stand still without doing nothing, which obviously isn't going to happen.

The anti healing could work with Kouki magic (don't know if it would cancel already active spells like Divine Veil), but he could still heal with the medicine from Hajime since that can work even against anti heal that can negate time based healing, said medicine also recover the stamina btw.

And regarding stamina, Kouki can fight for continously for three days while in a half dead state, and it was only three days because his absurd wounds and do to use all his magic to protect an entire city with a barrier instead of use it to recover himself.