Tier High 1-A+ and how it works within a non-logical cosmology

[Kev_Nino36U]

As you all know, at the apex of Tier High 1-A+ we find characters that embody the framework of every logically possible world, and, in a verse that follows classical logic, those characters are completely unsurpassable for anything that isn't Tier 0 by virtue of embodying everything, so every other character and power are just part of them, which makes sense. However, we all know that there are plenty of verses that aren't "restricted" to classical logic, so I have a few questions:

1) In non-logical cosmologies, a part of a structure can somehow have more power/control than the system as a whole, for example: In Marvel Comics the Infinity Gauntlet's power surpasses that of universal Eternity despite being a part of him. So, what's stopping something like this to happen to a High 1-A+ character in verses where classical logic isn't the ground of everything?

2)If a verse states that the sum of all possible worlds is just a tiny part of the cosmology, and also show characters that surpasses it, would those characters be tiered at High 1-A+ despite being beyond the very definition of what that tier represents? Or would the statement be invalidated despite the fact that classical logic isn't the ground of everything on that hypothetical verse?

 

[Livinmeme]

If my memory doesn't fail me, there are two types of High 1-A+, character that embodies all logically posible worlds, and those who embody all logical and unlogical, the GOAT is an example of this

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

If my memory doesn't fail me, there are two types of High 1-A+, character that embodies all logically posible worlds, and those who embody all logical and unlogical, the GOAT is an example of this

your memory has indeed failed you

 

[BleedingPeach]

your memory has indeed failed you

Are you talking about WoD characters?

 

[Livinmeme]

Are you talking about WoD characters?

WoD is too outdated to even be considered tier 0, as of now (even if the god tier of the verse has one of the most blatant negative theolegy examples I have ever read)

 

[Wankbreaker]

If my memory doesn't fail me, there are two types of High 1-A+, character that embodies all logically posible worlds, and those who embody all logical and unlogical, the GOAT is an example of this

Having a cosmology with logical and illogical worlds just negates itself. It scales nowhere,lol.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Having a cosmology with logical and illogical worlds just negates itself. It scales nowhere,lol.

Extended Modal Realism would at minimum grant you High 1-A+. We just don't accept the 'impossible worlds' aspect of it due to the fact High 1-A+ and 0 is based on logical possibilities, not illogical ones.

 

[Livinmeme]

Extended Modal Realism would at minimum grant you High 1-A+. We just don't accept the 'impossible worlds' aspect of it due to the fact High 1-A+ and 0 is based on logical possibilities, not illogical ones.

Tier 0 is above all types of cosmologies, and logic due to his inherent nature

 

[Wankbreaker]

Extended Modal Realism would at minimum grant you High 1-A+. We just don't accept the 'impossible worlds' aspect of it due to the fact High 1-A+ and 0 is based on logical possibilities, not illogical ones.

well still, it negates itself.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

As you all know, at the apex of Tier High 1-A+ we find characters that embody the framework of every logically possible world, and, in a verse that follows classical logic, those characters are completely unsurpassable for anything that isn't Tier 0 by virtue of embodying everything, so every other character and power are just part of them, which makes sense. However, we all know that there are plenty of verses that aren't "restricted" to classical logic, so I have a few questions:

It's an interesting question. Depends on what you want to include in those impossible worlds, really. What immediately comes to mind with that is "There is a collection of possible worlds where all logical contingencies obtain, and then in the middle there's a bunch where all sorts of illogical scenarios also obtain." Obviously there is no notion of cardinality or anything by which you might measure up the "size" of one cosmology as compared to another based on the amount of worlds, at that point, so they might as well be equal.

And then of course there's how illogical scenarios will eventually start boiling down to a bunch of shit that inherently is unquantifiable. At that point, I wouldn't say Extended Modal Realism would add much to a cosmology that Modal Realism alone already doesn't.

2)If a verse states that the sum of all possible worlds is just a tiny part of the cosmology, and also show characters that surpasses it, would those characters be tiered at High 1-A+ despite being beyond the very definition of what that tier represents? Or would the statement be invalidated despite the fact that classical logic isn't the ground of everything on that hypothetical verse?

I'd say you could coherently have things above "All possible worlds" but beneath full-blown Tier 0, at this rate, since I suspect that High 1-A+ as a tier is a little compressed as it stands (Largely in the conflation between "Everything a Tier 0 can create" and "All possible worlds as a multiverse-like collection"). Been toying with ideas of that for a while (That I'll probably never apply to the system). But I don't think "All impossible worlds" is an example of one such thing.

 

[Livinmeme]

It's an interesting question. Depends on what you want to include in those impossible worlds, really. What immediately comes to mind with that is "There is a collection of possible worlds where all logical contingencies obtain, and then in the middle there's a bunch where all sorts of illogical scenarios also obtain." Obviously there is no notion of cardinality or anything by which you might measure up the "size" of one cosmology as compared to another based on the amount of worlds, at that point, so they might as well be equal.

And then of course there's how illogical scenarios will eventually start boiling down to a bunch of shit that inherently is unquantifiable. At that point, I wouldn't say Extended Modal Realism would add much to a cosmology that Modal Realism alone already doesn't.


I'd say you could coherently have things above "All possible worlds" but beneath full-blown Tier 0, at this rate, since I suspect that High 1-A+ as a tier is a little compressed as it stands (Largely in the conflation between "Everything a Tier 0 can create" and "All possible worlds as a multiverse-like collection"). Been toying with ideas of that for a while (That I'll probably never apply to the system). But I don't think "All impossible worlds" is an example of one such thing.

What about verses that have certain characters that are utterly, and totally trascendental of physics and logic, the chaos fiends from willverse comes to mind.

 

[NucleerChaos1922]

It's an interesting question. Depends on what you want to include in those impossible worlds, really. What immediately comes to mind with that is "There is a collection of possible worlds where all logical contingencies obtain, and then in the middle there's a bunch where all sorts of illogical scenarios also obtain." Obviously there is no notion of cardinality or anything by which you might measure up the "size" of one cosmology as compared to another based on the amount of worlds, at that point, so they might as well be equal.

And then of course there's how illogical scenarios will eventually start boiling down to a bunch of shit that inherently is unquantifiable. At that point, I wouldn't say Extended Modal Realism would add much to a cosmology that Modal Realism alone already doesn't.


I'd say you could coherently have things above "All possible worlds" but beneath full-blown Tier 0, at this rate, since I suspect that High 1-A+ as a tier is a little compressed as it stands (Largely in the conflation between "Everything a Tier 0 can create" and "All possible worlds as a multiverse-like collection"). Been toying with ideas of that for a while (That I'll probably never apply to the system). But I don't think "All impossible worlds" is an example of one such thing.

Hello, is it necessary for a universe to have a tier 0 being in order to have a High 1-A+ tier?

 

[Voidnether]

Hello, is it necessary for a universe to have a tier 0 being in order to have a High 1-A+ tier?

No, The Star Maker doesn't have any Tier 0 in the verse if I can recall correctly because it's just High 1-A+

 

[JimedBro2020]

It's an interesting question. Depends on what you want to include in those impossible worlds, really. What immediately comes to mind with that is "There is a collection of possible worlds where all logical contingencies obtain, and then in the middle there's a bunch where all sorts of illogical scenarios also obtain." Obviously there is no notion of cardinality or anything by which you might measure up the "size" of one cosmology as compared to another based on the amount of worlds, at that point, so they might as well be equal.

And then of course there's how illogical scenarios will eventually start boiling down to a bunch of shit that inherently is unquantifiable. At that point, I wouldn't say Extended Modal Realism would add much to a cosmology that Modal Realism alone already doesn't.


I'd say you could coherently have things above "All possible worlds" but beneath full-blown Tier 0, at this rate, since I suspect that High 1-A+ as a tier is a little compressed as it stands (Largely in the conflation between "Everything a Tier 0 can create" and "All possible worlds as a multiverse-like collection"). Been toying with ideas of that for a while (That I'll probably never apply to the system). But I don't think "All impossible worlds" is an example of one such thing.

Soooooo... Are we gonna have tiers in between High 1-A+ and Tier 0?

 

[Wankbreaker]

Soooooo... Are we gonna have tiers in between High 1-A+ and Tier 0?

Tier: Megami Tensei, where Ultima puts all the megaten and persona characters