Tier 1-A/High 1-A question and possible problem

[InquisitiveCorvid]

Hello all, I have a question regarding tiers 1-A and High 1-A.
In its definition, it is stated that 1-A is a hierarchy of levels above infinitely-dimensioned spaces, going into transcendence over material composition altogether and into something qualitatively superior. Such jumps in quality can be stacked upon one another ad infinitum to reach 1-A+. My question comes from not entirely understanding what High 1-A is, then. In its definition, it's stated that High 1-A is something that transcends 1-A in similar fashion in which 1-A transcends tiers below it, but by working on higher logical framework, going beyond what any extension of 1-A allows for. From my understanding, it means that High 1-A is very dependant on presence of a 1-A structure below it, and if such structure would be absent, it would get knocked down to 1-A. Let me give an example to better portray what I mean. Imagine a cosmology where:

• there is a hierarchy of a general "beyond-dimensional spaces", that are explicitly qualitatively superior to dimensionality and unbound from material, dimensioned world (even if such world would be infinitely-dimensioned). This hierarchy would be cassified as 1-A
• the entirety of beyond-dimensional spaces is just fictional from the perspective of some higher, more abstract reality that starts an infinite reality-fiction chain of higher realms. These realms are therefore High 1-A

Now, if the first hierarchy were to be cut from the cosmology, the second hierarchy would be knocked down to 1-A despite still remaining the same structure and retaining the same qualities, because its ranking in regard to the tiering system would hinge on the existence of 1-A structure below it. If I'm correct with my interpretation of the tiering system (and please, absolutely correct me if I'm misunderstanding it), then tier High 1-A is very reliant on a 1-A structure being present in given cosmology. If I'm wrong and there is a great difference between a "qualitative" and "meta-qualitative" jump between two planes of existence, and 1-A covers every possible "qualitative" jump while High 1-A goes beyond qualitative superiority, could someone be so kind as to explain what would count as one, and what as the other (beyond-dimensionality? R>F transcendence? Something else entirely?)

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

This question is more focused on the importance of referencing evidence in the context of tiering rather than the tiering system itself. As scalers, we need concrete references to accurately gauge a character's power. If a character is merely shown punching without any context despite theoretically having the capability to destroy a mountain we lack the information to determine their actual strength. The entire premise of power scaling hinges on comparative analysis.

So, even though a High 1-A Space is, by definition, narratively independent of the foundations of 1-A structures beneath it, it is essential to acknowledge these underlying structures. Because it' through that, that we can precisely position the High 1-A Space within the hierarchy. Without such context, the only real way a Realm would reach High 1-A tier would be to rely solely on the attributes of the High 1-A Realm itself, and not bring up any other cosmology-based info, since it's independent of it.

 

[InquisitiveCorvid]

I see, thank You for answering.

Without such context, the only real way a Realm would reach High 1-A tier would be to rely solely on the attributes of the High 1-A Realm itself, and not bring up any other cosmology-based info, since it's independent of it.

I'm precisely interested in how that would be possible, what kind of attributes would be identified as essential to High 1-A in contrast to 1-A, without the existence of a structure on a scale of the latter.
For now, it seems to me that High 1-A is the odd one out in Tier 1, and perhaps even in the whole system. A realm or being that fits the requirements of any other tier can be described with just the reference to a base reality, which has to be assumed to exist in a setting anyway. Tier 11 is below it, everything between 10 and 3 is within it on 3-D scale, Tier 2 deals with added temporality or first instance of higher dimension, tiers from Low 1-C to High 1-B+ cover higher dimensions (or equivalents), Low 1-A deals with more vague descriptions of "beyond-dimensionality" and 1-A deals with higher realities or equivalents. Even High 1-A+ and 0 realms can be created without any mention of lower Tier 1 structures in cosmology. That all with assumption, of course, that such descriptions would fit all the requirements instead of being too vague, but it's still possible. All the realms I mentioned could exist in a setting while directly "adjecent", so to speak, to a base reality, without the need of any buffer structure. On the other hand, High 1-A needs two reference points instead of one - a base reality and at least a mention of 1-A structure. I'm not saying that it's a flaw in the system if it's supposed to work like that, I just find it quite peculiar.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

For now, it seems to me that High 1-A is the odd one out in Tier 1, and perhaps even in the whole system. A realm or being that fits the requirements of any other tier can be described with just the reference to a base reality, which has to be assumed to exist in a setting anyway. Tier 11 is below it, everything between 10 and 3 is within it on 3-D scale, Tier 2 deals with added temporality or first instance of higher dimension, tiers from Low 1-C to High 1-B+ cover higher dimensions (or equivalents), Low 1-A deals with more vague descriptions of "beyond-dimensionality" and 1-A deals with higher realities or equivalents. Even High 1-A+ and 0 realms can be created without any mention of lower Tier 1 structures in cosmology. That all with assumption, of course, that such descriptions would fit all the requirements instead of being too vague, but it's still possible. All the realms I mentioned could exist in a setting while directly "adjecent", so to speak, to a base reality, without the need of any buffer structure. On the other hand, High 1-A needs two reference points instead of one - a base reality and at least a mention of 1-A structure. I'm not saying that it's a flaw in the system if it's supposed to work like that, I just find it quite peculiar.

I never thought of it, but yeah you're right, High 1-A is a bit of an exception. But this is because High 1-A is specifically supposed to be endless. It's an endless tier supposed to encompass every kind of hierarchy beyond the foundations of 1-A+. Any verse with an absurdly large cosmology is meant to be accommodated by High 1-A, and so it's a tier specifically made to keep Cosmology in mind.

 

[InquisitiveCorvid]

I'm not questioning the placement of High 1-A in the system (not anymore, thanks to your explanation), but I'm still wondering if such realm could be portrayed without referrencing a 1-A structure. Presenting it in relation to a base reality, or a base reality in relation to it, would definitely be really tricky. The first layer of 1-A already dwarfs the base reality into literal nothingness. High 1-A can't really cover a realm that dwarfs the base reality into less than nothingness, since the second layer into 1-A does just that (by the virtue of relegating the first layer into nothingness, and everything below it into less than that). So High 1-A would have to be a realm that is in some way ineffable and inconceivable, impossible to imagine or properly place in relation to just base reality. It would be like Tier 0-lite, where it would have to have many strict requirements and checks as to what actually qualifies as something that can't be properly qualified and depicted from the perspective of baseline reality. It could therefore become a Tier 0-but-not-quite, and it'd be quite fitting, considering that a final subgradient of a Tier 0 being would be almost automatically placed in High 1-A. The problem with such definition (aside from even forming such definition) is that it would ultimately be more hassle than it's worth, probably.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

On the other hand, High 1-A needs two reference points instead of one - a base reality and at least a mention of 1-A structure. I'm not saying that it's a flaw in the system if it's supposed to work like that, I just find it quite peculiar.

I'd say it's effectively an extension of what goes in with 1-A, more than anything. Obviously, a 1-A is independent from anything lesser than itself as regards its actual ontology, but nevertheless, we need some reference point to even identify such a realm as being 1-A to begin with. High 1-A is much the same: It isn't dependent on a 1-A object as regards its structure and its existence, but we still need a way to identify it as being what it is, to begin with.

Tier 0 is where this pattern becomes subverted, since you don't even need any specific reference point at all to identify something as being such. Really because Tier 0 is pretty much transcendent in-itself, so to speak, and not just transcendent with respect to lessers. Its primacy doesn't derive from, nor is it reducible to, a relation with something else.

If you've some time, you can probably read this thing I've written for a somewhat more thorough examination of these.