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Isn't that just the effect of gravitational strength on certain celestial objects?That already literally happens IRL; time passes at different speeds in different frames of reference.
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Isn't that just the effect of gravitational strength on certain celestial objects?That already literally happens IRL; time passes at different speeds in different frames of reference.
I don't think this has anything to do with how fast you are moving or what you as an observer feels. or gravity warping space and timeThat already literally happens IRL; time passes at different speeds in different frames of reference.
it is actually a good example also and means almost the same and would fall under the same category as what I am describing.Another example I can possibly think of is God of War's Norse Pantheon, all the realms exist in the same physical space but are completely separate reflections of each other (They're not connected physically in any manner whatsoever, and you need the Bifrost Travel Realm to travel between realms), each having different flows of time. Jotunheim time travels faster than Midgard, and Hel time travels slower than Midgard, but one of the realm tears in the game in Niflheim is stated to threaten only Niflheim's fabric of reality. Kep's blog goes into more detail regarding the Norse Cosmology of God of War so not sure if that's the right example to use here.
For realms like this, I think we should treat them as the same timelines, I really cannot say why right now but I dont see any reason why they should be treated as a different timeline.I don't think this has anything to do with how fast you are moving or what you as an observer feels. or gravity warping space and time
This is a general time idk how I can explain it but all i can say is that it has nothing to do with physics, time just flows different i.e. in the lower realm, all you need is to spend a few months and you become 70+ and have aged the same, and going back to the higher realm won't undo that. And I think this happens in lots of fictions, like bleach also. there is a realm in which time flows much faster than simply entering it you coming out, you would have gotten longer hair and look older.
It is a fiction thing
it is actually a good example also and means almost the same and would fall under the same category as what I am describing.
I don't see why they'd be treated as the same timelines necessarily if there is no indication that changing the past of one timeline will affect all the others in tandem.For realms like this, I think we should treat them as the same timelines, I really cannot say why right now but I dont see any reason why they should be treated as a different timeline.
Yes but it also doesn't debunk them being separate space times either. Half the time most authors just won't care enough to overcomplicate their multiverses by making all the unvierses have completely different flows of time, the other timelines could just be synced and still not be affected by changes in one timeline's past unless demonstrably proven otherwise.Yes, but the fact that time can move at different speeds within one space-time IRL demonstrates that time moving at different speeds in fiction does not require different space-times.
Kind of a different case scenario for Norse.it is actually a good example also and means almost the same and would fall under the same category as what I am describing.
I can't say I disagree with thisYes, but the fact that time can move at different speeds within one space-time IRL demonstrates that time moving at different speeds in fiction does not require different space-times.
Then that would mean proof of burden would be on whoever is trying to claim they are of different timelines to bring in another proof aside time flowing differently ig, cause it makes no sense for someone to proof a negativeI don't see why they'd be treated as the same timelines necessarily if there is no indication that changing the past of one timeline will affect all the others in tandem.
That being said, like I mentioned, time travelling differently across universes also cannot be used as a debunk to them being separate spacetimes.Then that would mean proof of burden would be on whoever is trying to claim they are of different timelines to bring in another proof aside time flowing differently ig, cause it makes no sense for someone to proof a negative
At least we should be in agreement that time passing faster or slower is not enough to say something is of a different timeline or time-space and there should be supporting proof or it can be used as a supporting factor.
should this be added to the requirements or just FAQ?
If there are other factors, then it can be considered a different time-space.Kind of a different case scenario for Norse.
Destruction of one realm in the Norse Pantheon does not result in any adverse effects for the other realms, as indicated by the Realm Tears, where they affect only one realm and its fabric of reality, and not all of the others in tandem.
Except the Realm Tears in Norse don't just affect the space, they also affect time, as noted by the "fabric of reality" statement in the game, they're quite specific with this, if you read the blog you'll know. If they wanted to say only the space would be affected, they would've specifically said so, but they don't, they speak of the realms with regards to the entirety of their structure, and not just specific aspects of them.If there are other factors, then it can be considered a different time-space.
as even if there is a multiverse with multiple universes in which they share the same timeline, destruction of one universe wont necessarily have bad effects on other universes to begin with
So you mean destruction of a realm across the whole of time(past, present and future) does not affect the other realms?Except the Realm Tears in Norse don't just affect the space, they also affect time, as noted by the "fabric of reality" statement in the game, they're quite specific with this, if you read the blog you'll know. If they wanted to say only the space would be affected, they would've specifically said so, but they don't, they speak of the realms with regards to the entirety of their structure, and not just specific aspects of them.
Destruction of one realm via the Realm Tears only destroys that specific realm and that specific realm's space and time AKA fabric of reality, but it does not affect the other realms or their space and time.So you mean destruction of a realm across the whole of time(past, present and future) does not affect the other realms?
I mean, technically, because all changes IRL only propagate at the speed of light, a region being destroyed in its entirety would not affect other realms for aeons. And under the more likely models of inflation, some parts of the universe would never be affected.Destruction of one realm via the Realm Tears only destroys that specific realm and that specific realm's space and time AKA fabric of reality, but it does not affect the other realms or their space and time.
The Realm Tears within Niflheim only affect Niflheim itself (As well as its fabric of reality in its entirety), but this does not affect any of the other realms (Like Midgard, Asgard, Alfheim, Muspelheim, etc.), those have their own realm tears to worry about.
Basically, destroying one realm in its entirety does not affect the past or the future of the other realms in any meaningful way whatsoever, proving the realms to be separate individual space-time continuums.
Uhhhhhh...I mean, technically, because all changes IRL only propagate at the speed of light, a region being destroyed in its entirety would not affect other realms for aeons. And under the more likely models of inflation, some parts of the universe would never be affected.
Could something along the lines of "being separated causally" be considered "evidence"When is a universe or multiverse destruction tier 2
Here are the considered requirements for when the creation or destruction of a universe/universes is tier 2
Basic requirement - must be a universe sized structure/structure
Then the said feat must fulfill at least 3 of the following criteria.
1. Time was said or shown to be affected
2. Inability to travel to the destroyed universe/universes for time travelers
3. Affects the entire timeline/timelines
4. Each universe/universes destroyed in the multiverse operates on different timelines or Each universe in the multiverse is its own contained space-time (bubbled multiverse)
5.
6.
Note:- time flowing differently I.e. time flowing faster or slower in different universes is not enough to proof they operate on different timelines, there should be additional evidences such as
I. Destruction of a universe and all its time won't affect the other universes in the multiverse
II.
III.
Nah, my argument also kept in mind that these universes were physically disconnected first, which they are, the Nine Realms all occupy the same physical space, that being the branches of the World Tree and are all mirrors of each other in size and appearance (Meaning if you went to Egypt on Alfheim and opened a portal to Niflheim, you'd end up on Niflheim's version of Egypt), but each of these realms are alternate planes of existence (It's explained in a bit more detail in this blog), and you need the Bifrost to travel to said realms.It was just that your argument was "They're not affected by the destruction of each other, so they're separate space-times". So I pointed out how, under the physics that we know of, universes can be destroyed without affecting other universes while still being part of the same space-time.
But knowing that they're physically disconnected would definitionally make them separate space-times.
Separated causally?Could something along the lines of "being separated causally" be considered "evidence"
those bottom 3 points?
Theres a verse im making a cosmology blog forSeparated causally?
How is that possible?
Based on this description it's fine to say, each tree operates on different timelinesTheres a verse im making a cosmology blog for
and it describes universes being causally disconnected from other in 2 ways.
so was just curious if that would be good
because it sounds like good evidence to me for supporting their separate spacetime universes
basically each Universe is a starting point to branch off into a multiverse but not every universe is connected to each other so their not all int he same "Tree"
its more like a "forest" than a big "tree"
Erasing someone from every world (which has happened in this series) will only erase them in the Universes that "their universe" is connected too. but he can still exist in the other "trees" (other multiverses; Other Universes that aren't connected to this "Tree".)
however this entire cosmology is called "The Universe/Macrocosmo" that is the name for "all of existence/creation" in this Verse.
Have you reached any conclusions here?
Just this I guessWhen is a universe or multiverse destruction tier 2
Here are the considered requirements for when the creation or destruction of a universe/universes is tier 2
Basic requirement - must be a universe sized structure/structure
Then the said feat must fulfill at least 3 of the following criteria.
1. Time was said or shown to be affected
2. Inability to travel to the destroyed universe/universes for time travelers
3. Affects the entire timeline/timelines
4. Each universe/universes destroyed in the multiverse operates on different timelines or Each universe in the multiverse is its own contained space-time (bubbled multiverse)
5.
6.
Note:- time flowing differently I.e. time flowing faster or slower in different universes is not enough to proof they operate on different timelines, there should be additional evidences such as
I. Destruction of a universe and all its time won't affect the other universes in the multiverse
II. The universes are not connected physically
III.
Done, edited it accordingly4 is way too lengthy. Just write it down as "Each universe-sized dimension destroyed in the multiverse must be its own separate space-time continuum/timeline, free from the influence of space-time continuums/timelines for their existence".
Just so you know, this also works for universes within a bubbled multiverse if there is evidence that the universe contained within the universe is its own separate timeline free from the influence of the bigger timeline that encompasses it (For example, the bigger timeline's past was changed thus changing its future, but the alternate future's timeline, though sharing the past of said bigger timeline remains the exact same, unchanged). In essence, a timeline within a timeline.
It doesn't need to meet three. That was just an example from the laser/light requirements.I disagree with the criteria 4 and I, and I think that feats shouldn't be required to meet 3 of the criteria.
I don't really like this avenue.
For the criteria, I also think 2 is enough tbh, as 3 is way too muchI disagree with the criteria 4 and I, and I think that feats shouldn't be required to meet 3 of the criteria.
It was different before you edited it, so I can't explain why I disagreed at the time of that message.also why do you disagree with 4?
I think I have seen an example, which will be DC. The infinite universes were reduced to 52 and it had no effect on the new 52 universes. I can go ahead and edit that part or reword it to something like "Destruction of a "universe and its time" has no effect on the other universes in the multiverse".It was different before you edited it, so I can't explain why I disagreed at the time of that message.
Having separate timelines does not prove that feats effect the entirety of those timelines. Bubble multiverses don't have every universe be its own self-contained space-time; they're explicitly all part of the same space-time. Almost no series has each universe in the multiverse be free from the influence of other universes; there'd be no reason to mention them if they were completely disconnected.
I'm not particularly sold on this being a deciding factor against universes being physically disconnected or them being separate space-time continuums, as we don't consider the distance between two universes/timelines as infinite, only unquantifiably finite in size.Edit: based on your last comment, there can also be a requirement for verses in which you are unable to travel to through sheer speed.
The argument would be that if they could be traveled to then they'd be part of the same space-time.I'm not particularly sold on this being a deciding factor against universes being physically disconnected or them being separate space-time continuums, as we don't consider the distance between two universes/timelines as infinite, only unquantifiably finite in size.
Neutral on it also.I'm not particularly sold on this being a deciding factor against universes being physically disconnected or them being separate space-time continuums, as we don't consider the distance between two universes/timelines as infinite, only unquantifiably finite in size.
Most of the time fiction makes universes as separate realms by making laws about not being able to travel through sheer speed alone with some kind of dimensional barrier or existence erasure whatever, while still keeping the realms as having their own separate time and space.The argument would be that if they could be traveled to then they'd be part of the same space-time.