Tier 2 and separate key for the Sentry

[Confluctor]

Here goes nothing...

Separate keys for the Sentry. Not for Void and Sentry, but for different writers. One key for "Normal" Sentry, that's when he is written by Bendis, Remender, Pak, Lemire, and others who had their hands on the character. The second key should be specifically for Jenkins and Cates version. Jenkins and Cates' Sentry obviously operates at an extremely different power levels. Jenkins relies heavily on statements, but the way he intends to write him is much more powerful. Cates seems to pick up on Jenkins' statements and base new Sentry feats around it. These two are quite consistent with one another.

Jenkins Sentry scales above Strange and most enemies he has faced - albeit statement wise only and is considered an entity that can end the universe. Cates' Sentry had him fight Magic powered Void briefly, who previously fought God of Magic Strange briefly. (Wish this comic was longer. Would have been better)

Feats and statements for new key, which I have compiled in these albums:
1. Jenkins and Lee's Sentry Vol.1
2. Jenkins and Romita's Sentry Vol.2
3. Doctor Strange by Cates
4. King in Black by Cates

I would have added the whole Absorbing Man absorbing a bit of Odin's power, but can't remember the context fully... Oof

Tl;dr: Add a new key to his profile for these two writers. The power levels here are very very different than the normal one. There are more than enough feats to justify a 2-C for this key as it is very consistent when written by these authors. Cates, like Jenkins, treats him as a hero a lot more powerful than usual Sentry writers do.

 

[Bernkastelll]

I agree

 

[Confluctor]

Bump

 

[Slacjow]

I mean, as far as I am concerned you can do the same for a lot of other characters and it's not done because of inconsistencies.
I think Sentry is fine where he is right now, but "4-B at his strongest" should probably be replaced with "Usually 5-A, at least 4-B".

 

[manu_zarri]

I agree

 

[Confluctor]

I mean, as far as I am concerned you can do the same for a lot of other characters and it's not done because of inconsistencies.
I think Sentry is fine where he is right now, but "4-B at his strongest" should probably be replaced with "Usually 5-A, at least 4-B".

Maybe so - tho that's not really my problem atm, but the difference between these two versions of the Sentry is extremely big. I don't really mind Sentry's current rating, but it will also avoid future T2 Sentry threads (iirc, there were three of them before and I opposed the upgrade back then because "inconsistencies"). Tho when you divide the profile into half, a lot of those inconsistencies and outliers goes away.

I think its a good idea to divide the profiles of comic characters. Wish it was more consistent throughout the companies, but sadly, writers don't care enough about the hierarchy and stuff.

 

[Confluctor]

Bump

 

[Confluctor]

Bumping this again so hopefully a staff sees it

 

[Antvasima]

@Zensum @C2_of_Omegon @Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @Newendigo @Ehnkr2beboh @Tllmbrg @Deagonx @Elizio33 @Planck69

What do you think about this?

 

[Planck69]

Erm, Ant, I think you overestimate my knowledge of Marvel...

 

[Ehnkr2beboh]

Do we separate characters' profiles depending on writers for any other character? If not I don't think this change should go through since it would make the page inconsistent with other comic pages. Like, Superman heavily varies (Morrison and Loeb pretty much wank him while Jurgens or especially Byrne have much more grounded interpretations for his power). There's not an in-Universe reason for the writers changing his power either, so I'm against this for now.

Although we could just make him overall "possibly 2-C" if there's enough evidence. I'm not really against tier 2 Sentry, just splitting him between writer's interpretations seems weird imo. Also if you want the context for the Odin/Absorbing Man encounter, it's from Journey Into Mystery #122. I don't recall any context that makes it invalid, but I could be mistaken.

 

[Confluctor]

There's not an in-Universe reason for the writers changing his power either, so I'm against this for now.

Fair enough.

Although we could just make him overall "possibly 2-C" if there's enough evidence.

There are only 4/5 arcs where Sentry ranks up all the way to 2C. Tho it might seem quite inconsistent since other writers don't value that rating of power. See merged Sentry, for example, who was getting hurt by the likes of Wasp in Agents of Wakanda.

Also if you want the context for the Odin/Absorbing Man encounter, it's from Journey Into Mystery #122. I don't recall any context that makes it invalid, but I could be mistaken.

Thank you. If he did absorb a bit of Odin's power, then Absorbing man not being able to handle/hold Sentry's power would put him at a pretty high tier... But I should read that myself to get the full context.

 

[Antvasima]

Erm, Ant, I think you overestimate my knowledge of Marvel...

Okay. No problem. I will make a note of it.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

I'm like, 99% sure death seed or the void or whatever is 2-C/2-A

 

[Antvasima]

I do not think that Odin was established as even a galactic force that early in his history though.

 

[Eficiente]

Do we have proof that Sentry is explicitly below tier 2 when at his peak by some writers? Because if not then I don't mind him varying from 5-A to 4-B and also tier 2.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, he just flew straight through a Celestial, but regular Thor once threw the Odinsword right through one as well, and it instantly healed.

 

[Confluctor]

Do we have proof that Sentry is explicitly below tier 2 when at his peak by some writers? Because if not then I don't mind him varying from 5-A to 4-B and also tier 2.

Not exactly... The only times they gave him limits was in WWH where he stalemates Hulk (but it was not exactly consistent with his character, so not sure). Then in Blue Marvel, they treat him as being pushed to his limits... But the presence of Anti Matter means that he wasn't at full power.

Even Bendis treats the Sentry as "not at full power".

Agents of Wakanda treated the merged Sentry quite weak by adding the bad chi shenanigans.

 

[Slacjow]

I don't think using Celestials as a means of scaling is a good idea. They aren't Tier 2 by default anymore.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Well, he just flew straight through a Celestial, but regular Thor once threw the Odinsword right through one as well, and it instantly healed.

What does the regen have to do with the initial feat of blowing a hole in it?

 

[Confluctor]

What does the regen have to do with the initial feat of blowing a hole in it?

I suppose it has something to do with Thor's striking strength? Not sure tho tbh

 

[Confluctor]

I'm like, 99% sure death seed or the void or whatever is 2-C/2-A

Its quite complicated, but they do have statements on that level... Albeit the number of their feats is quite low.

 

[Eficiente]

Every time I hear Celestials for something it's always 4-B characters being in their same level, Thanos survived a bomb meant to kill them, Cosmic Ghost Rider killed some and tells that to Thor and She-Hulk as they fight, Robbie Reyes defeated a dead Dark one possessed by his uncle.

Not exactly... The only times they gave him limits was in WWH where he stalemates Hulk (but it was not exactly consistent with his character, so not sure). Then in Blue Marvel, they treat him as being pushed to his limits... But the presence of Anti Matter means that he wasn't at full power.

Even Bendis treats the Sentry as "not at full power".

Agents of Wakanda treated the merged Sentry quite weak by adding the bad chi shenanigans.

If this is truly the case then we should count that 1 time as an outlier (or scale Hulk to it) and vary him up to tier 2.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I'm not a super big fan of Tier 2 scaling for Sentry. Since all of his Tier 2 statements are only supported with other statements and off-screen events without on-screen support.

 

[Confluctor]

Which is why I initially proposed a different key. It's clear that Jenkins and Cates' Sentry is very consistent with one another - with Jenkins focusing more on statements and Cates focusing on giving him feats. The Sentry in Cates was powerful enough to fight against Magic powered Void, who was fighting against God of Magic Strange and Loki at the same time.

 

[Antvasima]

I obviously agree about that the Celestials go up and down like yo-yos between tiers 5-A and High 1-B depending on the story and context.

The Sentry is also very inconsistent though. He has been knocked out by a single blow from behind by Carol Danvers, for just one example.

 

[Antvasima]

I'm not a super big fan of Tier 2 scaling for Sentry. Since all of his Tier 2 statements are only supported with other statements and off-screen events without on-screen support.

This is a good point.

 

[Confluctor]

He has been knocked out by a single blow from behind by Carol Danvers, for just one example.

Well, considering the context of the story, it's not much of an anti feat. Dude was obviously not thinkint straight because his wife was killed by Ultron.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I suppose that his power level might have been very affected by that.

 

[Confluctor]

Soo... Uh, what happened to this? Rejected, I presume?

 

[Antvasima]

It seems so, but I don't think that we ever quite finished the discussion.

 

[Confluctor]

Bump.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that we cannot separate The Sentry alone by writer, unless we start to do so for most other Marvel characters as well.

 

[Kulf_Boba]

bump

 

[Confluctor]

This should be closed. Don't think anyone wants it, including me. He has legit feats but eh, can't be bothered anymore

 

[Kulf_Boba]

This should be closed. Don't think anyone wants it, including me. He has legit feats but eh, can't be bothered anymore

Weren't they arguing that its power varies and therefore could be 4-B, possibly 2-C?

 

[Confluctor]

It does, a lot. And he has legit tier 2 feats and scaling. But I just can't be really asked with it anymore.

Either way, this thread was poorly organised on my behalf

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Maybe you can start a new, better organised, thread later then?

I will close it as requested.