• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Thunder Bagua Kaido Speed

Status
Not open for further replies.
Middlesbrough_

Middlesbrough_

He/Him
168
48
Hooh, this time I found a little irregularity in KT; Guntur Bagua's calculation.

vsbattles.fandom.com

Kaidou's Thunder Bagua Speed

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com



First, KT considers that Luffy's perception speed is the SoL for Luffy's statement that the lasers he emits are slow. But, upon re-revision, Luffy dodged Pacifista's laser when it was 11m away. This makes Luffy's perception speed will be reduced.

11 m ÷ 299,792,458 m/s = 3.669 × 10^-8 s



So, Luffy's perception speed is only at Relativistic rank, not SoL. In conclusion, this calculation should be rejected because Luffy does not have SoL perception speed.



If we use projectile avoidance:



- First, find the distance before Luffy dodges:

Pacifista height 355px | 689cm

Distance before luffy dodge 580px | 1,125.69 cm



- Second, assume Luffy's head length is 15-20cm, we take the center ball of 17.5cm, then his head moves to form a 45° angle. So:

0.137444679 × 299,792,458 ÷ 11.25.69 = 3,660,410.78 m/s (MHS+)



In conclusion, luffy's reaction when avoiding the pacifista laser is MHS+, why is that? Because based on the distance before luffy dodged was 11m and luffy only dodged slightly against the laser.



So Bagua Kaido's thunder settlement should be rejected.
 
Last edited:
1) you derived this perception speed of a calc which seems like calc staking in of itself already. Speed of light is an in-universe statement.

2) The Luffy used in the calc is not only far stronger and faster than the one you show dodging the laser, but also said Kaido was even too fast for his future sight as well, so the perception speed is fine as it is.

Enough of this already. Luffy is FTL
 
Maitreya said:
1) you derived this perception speed of a calc which seems like calc staking in of itself already. Speed of light is an in-universe statement.

2) The Luffy used in the calc is not only far stronger and faster than the one you show dodging the laser, but also said Kaido was even too fast for his future sight as well, so the perception speed is fine as it is.

Enough of this already. Luffy is FTL
Click to expand...
"Saying it's stronger" doesn't make your perception SOL, and it's also a stacking calculation.
 
Maitreya said:
1) you derived this perception speed of a calc which seems like calc staking in of itself already. Speed of light is an in-universe statement.

2) The Luffy used in the calc is not only far stronger and faster than the one you show dodging the laser, but also said Kaido was even too fast for his future sight as well, so the perception speed is fine as it is.

Enough of this already. Luffy is FTL
Click to expand...
Luffy is FTL, what I am concerned about here is calc thunder for Kaido.
 
Middlesbrough_ said:
"Saying it's stronger" doesn't make your perception SOL, and it's also a stacking calculation.
Click to expand...
My dude you’re literally using a Luffy from 400 chapters ago than the calc used. The same Luffy who 400 chapters ago called a light speed beam slow. The same Luffy who now has acquired the ability to quite literally see into the future and still couldn’t dodge Kaido’s move for shit.

Yeah I think I’d call that LS perception lol

What you’re doing is calc staking here by the way. You are trying to find Luffy’s perception speed through a calc and then determining Kaido’s speed from blitzing Luffy through said calc.

The original calc in question does not do any calc staking because there is no calc to stack. Light speed is an in canon thing in One Piece. So this is wrong on two parts.
 
Maitreya said:
My dude you’re literally using a Luffy from 400 chapters ago than the calc used. The same Luffy who 400 chapters ago called a light speed beam slow. The same Luffy who now has acquired the ability to quite literally see into the future and still couldn’t dodge Kaido’s move for shit.

Yeah I think I’d call that LS perception lol

What you’re doing is calc staking here by the way. You are trying to find Luffy’s perception speed through a calc and then determining Kaido’s speed from blitzing Luffy through said calc.

The original calc in question does not do any calc staking because there is no calc to stack. Light speed is an in canon thing in One Piece. So this is wrong on two parts.
Click to expand...
Calling light beam slow but you don't know about the distance before lufffy dodges, there are other factors that make him unable to perception SOL and all of them I have explained above. Even though he has progressed a lot, as long as you don't explain his progress, and using SOL as a time frame for Kaido is a mistake.
 
This should be closed, read the thread where the feat got accepted
Using calc stack to disprove a feat proven by statements is not the way to go

Its not accepted because of a specific calculation, based on written statements light is too slow for a luffy that is extremely slower with a way worse haki than rooftop luffy
The scaling chain of how superior his perception speed is compared to sabaody luffy is massive, alongside it being a literal written statement not contradicted by anything

Middlesbrough_ said:
Calling light beam slow but you don't know about the distance before lufffy dodges, there are other factors that make him unable to perception SOL and all of them I have explained above. Even though he has progressed a lot, as long as you don't explain his progress, and using SOL as a time frame for Kaido is a mistake.
Click to expand...
 
Middlesbrough_ said:
Hooh, this time I found a little irregularity in KT; Guntur Bagua's calculation.

vsbattles.fandom.com

Kaidou's Thunder Bagua Speed

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com



First, KT considers that Luffy's perception speed is the SoL for Luffy's statement that the lasers he emits are slow. But, upon re-revision, Luffy dodged Pacifista's laser when it was 11m away. This makes Luffy's perception speed will be reduced.

11 m ÷ 299,792,458 m/s = 3.669 × 10^-8 s



So, Luffy's perception speed is only at Relativistic rank, not SoL. In conclusion, this calculation should be rejected because Luffy does not have SoL perception speed.



If we use projectile avoidance:



- First, find the distance before Luffy dodges:

Pacifista height 355px | 689cm

Distance before luffy dodge 580px | 1,125.69 cm



- Second, assume Luffy's head length is 15-20cm, we take the center ball of 17.5cm, then his head moves to form a 45° angle. So:

0.137444679 × 299,792,458 ÷ 11.25.69 = 3,660,410.78 m/s (MHS+)



In conclusion, luffy's reaction when avoiding the pacifista laser is MHS+, why is that? Because based on the distance before luffy dodged was 11m and luffy only dodged slightly against the laser.



So Bagua Kaido's thunder settlement should be rejected.
Click to expand...

Luffy dodged the first laser and immediately after a 2nd one came at him and he still dodged that one effortlessly. Definitely FTL reactions for that one.
 
Middlesbrough_ said:
Calling light beam slow but you don't know about the distance before lufffy dodges, there are other factors that make him unable to perception SOL and all of them I have explained above. Even though he has progressed a lot, as long as you don't explain his progress, and using SOL as a time frame for Kaido is a mistake.
Click to expand...
You’re only referring to the distance Luffy was from the beam and the distance he moved to dodge the beam in the OP. That’s it. But the issue is you’re trying to derive Kaido’s speed based off of calc stacking. Which we don’t do here.

If you honest to god want to go with calcs there are accepted relativistic calcs for Luffy pre-time skip on this site. So yeah we can easily get Luffy perception speed at LS far earlier if you really wanted to argue it.
 
Romeu08 said:
This should be closed, read the thread where the feat got accepted
Using calc stack to disprove a feat proven by statements is not the way to go

Its not accepted because of a specific calculation, based on written statements light is too slow for a luffy that is extremely slower with a way worse haki than rooftop luffy
The scaling chain of how superior his perception speed is compared to sabaody luffy is massive, alongside it being a literal written statement not contradicted by anything
Click to expand...
Again, how many times do I have to explain? Even though he said slow light, you have to look at the facts first, the factor here is that the pacifista laser was fired at a distance of 11m, which means that Luffy's perception will be reduced. Does that make sense? The speed of light will be consistent like that? Light is 299792458 m/s not "11" m.

You should understand now
 
Maitreya said:
You’re only referring to the distance Luffy was from the beam and the distance he moved to dodge the beam in the OP. That’s it. But the issue is you’re trying to derive Kaido’s speed based off of calc stacking. Which we don’t do here.

If you honest to god want to go with calcs there are accepted relativistic calcs for Luffy pre-time skip on this site. So yeah we can easily get Luffy perception speed at LS far earlier if you really wanted to argue it.
Click to expand...
You don't understand, the "distance" here determines the speed change on SOL. The SOL speed is 299792458 m/s not "11". How many times do I have to explain
 
Middlesbrough_ said:
You don't understand, the "distance" here determines the speed change on SOL. The SOL speed is 299792458 m/s not "11". How many times do I have to explain
Click to expand...
This doesn’t even make sense. What you’re trying to say is that it takes light 11 times longer to travel 11 meters than 1 meter.

No duh, that has nothing to do with what I’m saying though.
 
Maitreya said:
This doesn’t even make sense. What you’re trying to say is that it takes light 11 times longer to travel 11 meters than 1 meter.

No duh, that has nothing to do with what I’m saying though.
Click to expand...
You repeatedly said that Luffy said light was slow without looking at other factors why he thought it was slow.
 
Maitreya said:
….meanwhile Luffy saw Kaido actually move in the future and still couldn’t dodge….
Click to expand...
Bruuh, can you do the calculation before? I already explained above that luffy didn't get a SOL reaction when dodging pacifista's laser, which means calc thunder for Kaido KT is wrong.

Once again, the calculation when luffy says thunder bagua kaido is very fast will not be able to be calculated.
1. We can't find the time frame
2. If we take from luffy dodging the pacifista laser it only gets MHS+ then there will be stacking.

Chain scaling should be, sanji who FTL<Luffy<Kaido.

This calculation cannot be calc.
 
Hmmm, imo i kinda agree with what brough's said. Luffy was able to dodge a LS attack from 11 meters distance, which is way easier than dodging a LS attack from a way closer range. Even when you can see the future, with that close of a distance. It makes sense why Luffy had a tougher time dodging Kaido's Thunder Bagua than Pacifista's beam. Wouldn't really mean that his perception is LS tho
 
Middlesbrough_ said:
Bruuh, can you do the calculation before? I already explained above that luffy didn't get a SOL reaction when dodging pacifista's laser, which means calc thunder for Kaido KT is wrong.
Click to expand...
You’re trying to base Luffy’s perception speed off of a calc while in the actual calc Luffy’s perception speed is based on the manga. No calc was used to determine what Luffy’s perception speed was in Kaido’s speed feat, so what you’re trying to do here is inapplicable.

There are several more fundamental issues with your premise that I can list out.
 
Maitreya said:
You’re trying to base Luffy’s perception speed off of a calc while in the actual calc Luffy’s perception speed is based on the manga. No calc was used to determine what Luffy’s perception speed was in Kaido’s speed feat, so what you’re trying to do here is inapplicable.

There are several more fundamental issues with your premise that I can list out.
Click to expand...
No, you're the one who misinterpreted calc Kaido's use of perception to think that lasers are slow. You don't seem to understand, if we use that it will enter calc stacking.

Luffy didn't really show that his reaction was SOL.
 
Middlesbrough_ said:
No, you're the one who misinterpreted calc Kaido's use of perception to think that lasers are slow. You don't seem to understand, if we use that it will enter calc stacking.

Luffy didn't really show that his reaction was SOL.
Click to expand...
There is objectively no calc staking in the original calc because no calc was used to determine Luffy’s perception speed. Just manga statements

What you’re doing is objectively defined as calc staking because you’re using a calc to determine Luffy’s perception speed and then using that perception speed to find Kaido’s speed.

It’s literally as simple as that 🗿
 
Mf asking for a clear cut statement meanwhile this dude’s ignoring Luffy calling a goddamn beam of light “slow”

Like tf??
 
Maitreya said:
There is objectively no calc staking in the original calc because no calc was used to determine Luffy’s perception speed. Just manga statements

What you’re doing is objectively defined as calc staking because you’re using a calc to determine Luffy’s perception speed and then using that perception speed to find Kaido’s speed.

It’s literally as simple as that 🗿
Click to expand...
You keep saying the manga statement, without looking at the other factors that made him say the laser was slow.
 
Middlesbrough_ said:
Luffy didn't really show that his reaction was SOL.
Click to expand...
Middlesbrough_ said:
Oh my god, how many times do I have to say it, if we assume luffy is SOL without a clear statement that's stacking.
Click to expand...
It's stated...
013.jpg

Luffy literally says the laser was too slow while it's beside his head...
 
I do understand your argument.

The issue is your argument is bad and I have responded to it multiple times now.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

KingTempest
  • Locked
Prohibiting the Silencing of FTL One Piece
4 5 6
Replies
235
Views
26K
KingTempest
KingTempest
Back
Top