This thing I don't understand about Sans' AP

[Rodri_"Dante"]

Sans is rated 9-A with telekinesis for being able to harm Frisk with it.

So I'm wondering why his telekinesis is considered so much stronger than his other attacks when:
*Is done with magic like any of his other attacks (Unless the implication is that his telekinesis is not magic).
*It deals the same damage as any of his other attacks (Which is not a game mechanic, is actually aknowledged in the check option) while ignoring invincibility frames.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

I've also realized this. "10-B physically, 9-A with Magic" seems more fitting.

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

Well, for me it doesn't even make sense to make a physical/magical distinction when Sans IS made out of magic, but that's a topic I don't want to discuss here.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Sans' magic can ignore durability, he does not scale to Frisk's 9-A durability. Telekinesis isn't Karma, he just slams Frisk with enough force to hurt them.
You'd also scale everyone with an ATK above 1 to high tiers' 9-A.

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

His telekinesis doesn't have karma, but it also doesn't trigger invencibility frames.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

...? And? His telekinesis is still 9-A by the impact force, it doesn't scale to anything, the rating is correct as it is.

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

Ok, why is his magic stronger than his magic?

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Ok, why is his magic stronger than his magic?

...
I assume you're talking about why is "this" magic stronger than his usual magic. First of, yes, people can have a particular attack that scales above their regular ones, that's literally the most common thing in fiction. But it doesn't matter, that's not even the case here.

Sans isn't harming Frisk through sheer power output, he is just using his Telekinesis to throw Frisk with enough force to harm them. That's not power output, he isn't pinning them down with his magical telekinesis to the point it hurts, he is hammering a 30kg child into a wall. His magic isn't doing any damage here.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Getting hit by one of Sans' blasters or bones for one frame deals 1 damage. This is assumed to be his 10-B AP, correct? That's without KARMA or any durability negating hax. Hitting an attack from Sans deals 1 damage without any hax.

Well, getting slammed into a wall with telekinesis also deals one damage, also without any durability hax.

Shouldn't the AP for both magic and telekinesis be the same?

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

Sans isn't harming Frisk through sheer power output, he is just using his Telekinesis to throw Frisk with enough force to harm them. That's not power output, he isn't pinning them down with his magical telekinesis to the point it hurts, he is hammering a 30kg child into a wall. His magic isn't doing any damage here.

Umm... Newton's third law?

The force Frisk is enduring when hitting the wall/floor/ceiling is equivalent to the force their body is exerting on the wall/floor/ceiling, which comes from Sans telekinesis.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Getting hit by one of Sans' blasters or bones for one frame deals 1 damage. This is assumed to be his 10-B AP, correct? That's without KARMA or any durability negating hax. Hitting an attack from Sans deals 1 damage without any hax.

Well, getting slammed into a wall with telekinesis also deals one damage, also without any durability hax.

Shouldn't the AP for both magic and telekinesis be the same?

No.
1 damage is the minimum in an RPG, we don't know how much damage Sans does without the durability hax.
Telekinesis isn't magic output, it doesn't scale to anything else.

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

No.
1 damage is the minimum in an RPG, we don't know how much damage Sans does without the durability hax.
Telekinesis isn't magic output, it doesn't scale to anything else.

So you're saying that his telekinesis shouldn't be 9-A because it deals one point of damage.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Umm... Newton's third law?

The force Frisk is enduring when hitting the wall/floor/ceiling is equivalent to the force their body is exerting on the wall/floor/ceiling, which comes from Sans telekinesis.

It doesn't.
Telekinesis is Lifting Strength, first and foremost.
He only has enough force to throw a 30kg mass at high velocity that it hurts them in a MINIMAL way. The force behind the actual Telekinesis doesn't have to match the KE.
That's not magical output. That's kinetic energy.
He can't just use the TK to hurt them without throwing them at high speeds.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

So you're saying that his telekinesis shouldn't be 9-A because it deals one point of damage.

No.
Absolutely not.

The TK never damages you throughout the battle, it's clearly depicted to harm you in the end.

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

It doesn't.
Telekinesis is Lifting Strength, first and foremost.

So it isn't 9-A because that's an AP measurement and not a LS measurement.

He only has enough force to throw a 30kg mass at high velocity that it hurts them in a MINIMAL way. The force behind the actual Telekinesis doesn't have to match the KE.
That's not magical output. That's kinetic energy.
He can't just use the TK to hurt them without throwing them at high speeds.

Then where does the KE come from?

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

The TK never damages you throughout the battle, it's clearly depicted to harm you in the end.

By dealing one damage, which in other instances is used to show that a character barely got hurt.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Frisk's HP goes into the decimals during the Asriel fight. Of course, this is basically a cutscene and is meant to illustrate Frisk holding on, this still means that "less than half a point" of HP exists.

And we do know how much damage Sans' attacks do without dura hax. It's 1, we see this by hitting a bone or beam for one frame. That doesn't allow Karma to activate, and it doesn't matter that there are no invincibility frames.

His telekinesis slams and his basic magic attacks both deal the same damage, and have the same AP.

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

And we do know how much damage Sans' attacks do without dura hax. It's 1, we see this by hitting a bone or beam for one frame. That doesn't allow Karma to activate, and it doesn't matter that there are no invincibility frames.

And we don't even need this, the game states that Sans can deal 1 damage.

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

And we do know how much damage Sans' attacks do without dura hax. It's 1, we see this by hitting a bone or beam for one frame. That doesn't allow Karma to activate, and it doesn't matter that there are no invincibility frames.

Ok, slight correction:
Touching Sans' attacks for one frame deals 1 damage, AND adds 6 points of karma. However, the draining effect of karma kicks in several frames after you already take damage, so karma is not what allows Sans to deal 1 damage.

This video shows it best (Use "," and "." to move frame by frame)

 

[ShockingPsychic]

I should have phrased it as "That's assuming KARMA isn't currently active", as in, the bone itself deals 1 damage while KARMA is unrelated to the AP.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

So it isn't 9-A because that's an AP measurement and not a LS measurement.

"The power to magically lift things isn't measured by Lifting Strength".
It is.

Then where does the KE come from?

Mass and Velocity. The magic just allows him to lifting and move objects by gravity hax, he doesn't need to match the force of the KE.

By dealing one damage, which in other instances is used to show that a character barely got hurt.

Frisk's HP goes into the decimals during the Asriel fight. Of course, this is basically a cutscene and is meant to illustrate Frisk holding on, this still means that "less than half a point" of HP exists.

No, it doesn't. You acknowledge the problem with citing that cutscene in particular and literally ignores it.
No, you can't take 0.1 damage with full health. Using a ONE-OFF scene done to depict Determination is ridiculous.
The Game Mechanics do not allow for decimals in any other instances other than a literal cinematic with the sole purpose to depict DT.

No, Sans wouldn't do 0.1 damage in his fight, because it's literally impossible by the game's own mechanics. Christ.

And we do know how much damage Sans' attacks do without dura hax. It's 1, we see this by hitting a bone or beam for one frame. That doesn't allow Karma to activate, and it doesn't matter that there are no invincibility frames.

And we don't even need this, the game states that Sans can deal 1 damage.

Again, minimum damage possible.
And the description is literally a red herring, because Sans does deal 1 damage.... per frame.
And absolutely not².
Sans doesn't do one damage, he ignores invincibility frames with his magic regardless of karma. Karma only adds the poisonous extra effect.
What you showed is just his durability negation working for exactly one frame.

The TK spam the the end is far stronger than any other before, chipping your HP away at least 1/3rd.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

No, it doesn't. You acknowledge the problem with citing that cutscene in particular and literally ignores it.

I never said "it always works like this", I said that decimal HP has been proven to exist elsewhere in the universe. You said "we don't know how much damage Sans deals" and that "1 is the absolute minimum in RPGs" despite the game both showing and telling us otherwise.

No, you can't take 0.1 damage with full health. Using a ONE-OFF scene done to depict Determination is ridiculous.
The Game Mechanics do not allow for decimals in any other instances other than a literal cinematic with the sole purpose to depict DT.

No, Sans wouldn't do 0.1 damage in his fight, because it's literally impossible by the game's own mechanics. Christ.

No need to get riled up, dude.

It isn't impossible, we've seen an attack drop Frisk into decimal health, Sans just doesn't do this.

Again, minimum damage possible.
And the description is literally a red herring, because Sans does deal 1 damage.... per frame.

It's telling the truth, he deals one damage, it just withholds the part about damage per frame.

And absolutely not².
Sans doesn't do one damage,

This and the video shown earlier say otherwise.

What you showed is just his durability negation working for exactly one frame.

Every attack in the game deals normal damage on frame one of contact, and Sans' are no different. It deals it's damage, the KR comes in later.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

I never said "it always works like this", I said that decimal HP has been proven to exist elsewhere in the universe. You said "we don't know how much damage Sans deals" and that "1 is the absolute minimum in RPGs" despite the game both showing and telling us otherwise.



No need to get riled up, dude.

It isn't impossible, we've seen an attack drop Frisk into decimal health, Sans just doesn't do this.

No.
It isn't a game mechanic, it's a cinematic. It doesn't apply to other fights, it's not the standard.

Decimal damage is impossible by the game's own mechanics. It was only accomplished in a singular cutscene, with narrative purpose.

You're making the argument that
"Well, decimals exists in this one outlier situation, so if Sans' damage was below 1, it should do decimal damage."

It doesn't. Because in all programmed fights in the game, the games goes by the damage formula,
in the Asriel fight, we switch to the cinematics, and the damage formula is not used anymore, instead, the game manually updates the HP every time they take a hit.

It makes no sense to even say this, because Sans' fight is going by the damage formula, where the damage is always 1 at minimum.

Example, if you have 99 DEF, an attack with the stat of 8 will do 1 damage, and an attack with the stat of 1 will do damage as well.
Do they have the same power? Obviously not, but the damage formula literally doesn't go below 1, so they're rounded up to the same value.
Using the literal only fight where the formula is dropped for the sake of narrative is not correct.

It's telling the truth, he deals one damage, it just withholds the part about damage per frame.

This and the video shown earlier say otherwise.

Read the entire argument.
Sans doesn't do one damage, he does one damage per frame by ignoring invincibility frames with durability negation hax.
It's done through hax, not through sheer power.

Every attack in the game deals normal damage on frame one of contact, and Sans' are no different. It deals it's damage, the KR comes in later.

No. It deals one damage in one frame, and it would deal more damage given a respectively proportional amount of frames.
Showing him doing damage on frame one, when his durability hax is literally doing 1 dmg per frame bypassing invincibility frames tells me nothing.

it's just the dura negation hax working the way it's supposed to be.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

"DF is subtracted from the damage output of the attacking party. However, it cannot lower the damage that the protagonist takes to a value less than 1."

 

[ShockingPsychic]

No.
It isn't a game mechanic, it's a cinematic. It doesn't apply to other fights, it's not the standard.

Decimal damage is impossible by the game's own mechanics. It was only accomplished in a singular cutscene, with narrative purfest.

Impossible by the game's typical mechanics, which are already altered for this fight, but not the in-universe lore. The game's lore states that Frisk's HP can be dropped below 1 on rare occasions. This isn't one of them.

in the Asriel fight, we switch to the cinematics, and the damage formula is not used anymore, instead, the game manually updates the HP every time they take a hit.

It makes no sense to even say this, because Sans' fight is going by the damage formula, where the damage is always 1 at minimum.

Example, if you have 99 DEF, an attack with the stat of 8 will do 1 damage, and an attack with the stat of 1 will do damage as well.
Do they have the same power? Obviously not, but the damage formula literally doesn't go below 1, so they're rounded up to the same value.
Using the literal only fight where the formula is dropped for the sake of narrative is not

Other mechanics are dropped for this fight (invincibility frames). If it was intended for Sans to do <1 damage, this likely would have been reflected in the changes to the fight mechanics.

Even if he did do less, it gets rounded up, so we should still treat it the way it's shown. He's still damaging Frisk, a 9-A, with his attacks.

correct.

Read the entire argument.
Sans doesn't do one damage, he does one damage per frame by ignoring invincibility frames with durability negation hax.
It's done through hax, not through sheer power.

His hax aren't in play on frame 1 of his attacks. Every attack in the game damages on frame 1, much like Sans.

No. It deals one damage in one frame, and it would deal more damage given a respectively proportional amount of frames.

This boils down to "getting hit multiple times will deal more damage over time".

Showing him doing damage on frame one, when his durability hax is literally doing 1 dmg per frame bypassing invincibility frames tells me nothing.

Frame 1 doesn't bypass invincibility frames.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Impossible by the game's typical mechanics, which are already altered for this fight, but not the in-universe lore. The game's lore states that Frisk's HP can be dropped below 1 on rare occasions. This isn't one of them.

Lore and Game Mechanics are interchangeable.
Asriel's case is a literal outlier that drops the mechanic of the fights to deal specifics amounts of damage

Decimal damage was only possible in a programmed cinematic, after Frisk's HP was dropped to one (without said decimal), with narrative purpose to showcase determination resistance.

Sans' battle follows the damage formula, ANY battle follows the damage formula. It takes a literal god and the greatest DT feat in the series to break said formula. You even suggesting this should apply to a fight where the formula is being followed to a T, only ignoring the invincibility frames (which are not part of it), and adding a new poison effect, is wild.

No, Sans deals one damage per frame due to durability negation.

This doesn't apply to telekinesis LS.
End of story.

Other mechanics are dropped for this fight (invincibility frames). If it was intended for Sans to do <1 damage, this likely would have been reflected in the changes to the fight mechanics.

No it wouldn't
Because exactly, his damage is supposed to be by ignoring your defenses.

Even if he did do less, it gets rounded up, so we should still treat it the way it's shown. He's still damaging Frisk, a 9-A, with his attacks.

No we shouldn't.
What is that? A character is limited by game mechanics should not be upgraded.
He should not scale to someone because the formula couldn't do 0.0001 damage and has to reach 1 due to how the game function.

This is the most ridiculous suggestion you've ever made.
This is an RPG, with a established formula and HP system.
If your party scales to, idk, 7-B in the late game, and then you backtrack to early game, and a 9-B character does one damage to you due to damage formula, we shouldn't upscale the 9-B character.
That's ridiculous, absurd.

His hax aren't in play on frame 1 of his attacks. Every attack in the game damages on frame 1, much like Sans.

???
Says who?
His Durability Hax doesn't take more than one frame to take effect, why would it? We also see karma taking effect in that same frame.

This boils down to "getting hit multiple times will deal more damage over time".


Frame 1 doesn't bypass invincibility frames.

Thank you for describing how the hax works Sherlock.
It does bypass the invincibility frames, why wouldn't it?
Literally, why do both of you think the first frame of a programmed interaction holds any sort of magical voodoo power that makes the intended interaction work in a different way for EXACTLY one frame?
That's a wild claim, and literally, why would anyone willingly program that?

No. It does bypass invincibility frames. How do we know that? Because Dante was thankful enough to link a video of the one-frame interaction, and, surprise, surprise, Frisk didn't go into the invincibility frames even though they only touched the bone for one frame.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

God.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

I'll come back to this once you stop insulting me over providing commentary on a question. Jeez.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

I'll come back to this once you stop insulting me over providing commentary on a question. Jeez.

Quote one insult thrown at you. I will apologize for it right away.

If you can't do that, then I will have to say you're falsely accusing me of doing something I didn't do.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

"Thank you for describing how the hax works Sherlock."

Aided by numerous displays of anger and talking down.

"That's ridiculous, absurd.", in response to misreading what I said.

"No, Sans wouldn't do 0.1 damage in his fight, because it's literally impossible by the game's own mechanics. Christ."

I'm not offended or even mad, I just don't want to go through a debate with someone who's angry.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

"Thank you for describing how the hax works Sherlock."

Aided by numerous displays of anger and talking down.

A sarcastic snip of me informing you that you said the obvious, and misinterpreted the obvious. That's not an insult.
You said I insulted you.

"That's ridiculous, absurd.", in response to misreading what I said.

Yes, the suggestion that a character doing 1 dmg due to game limitations should scale to said 1 dmg is ridiculous, and absurd. Did I say you, as a person, is ridiculous or absurd? No, I didn't.
Therefore that's not an insult.
You said I insulted you.

"No, Sans wouldn't do 0.1 damage in his fight, because it's literally impossible by the game's own mechanics. Christ."

I'm not offended or even mad, I just don't want to go through a debate with someone who's angry.

"Christ" is used to express tiredness over a topic, or situation. This isn't an insult.
You said I insulted you.

You shouldn't be offended, there was no attack thrown at you, at all.
In fact, you do not have the right to be offended over literally nothing. If you're offended by someone contending, and finding your points completely absurd, then, too bad, you're too sensible to go through any sort of debate.

What makes you even remotely think I an angry? Some associate "good punctuation" with anger.
Others associate bold text with anger.

Both associations are imprecise.

Through and through, I do not own you any sort of explaining about my rebuttals. No attack was directed to your person, and distress was only directed to arguments which used faulty, and insistent logic, which I still had the patience to counter with my own arguments.

Never accuse me of doing such a terrible thing again. I wouldn't insult someone on this site over such a minor thing. You misrepresent me, my mentality, and personal morality vby claiming I insulted you in any way.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Ok guys.

My mental health requires High-Godly regen to bypass EE type "Undertale VSbattle Threads"

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

"The power to magically lift things isn't measured by Lifting Strength".
It is.

That's not what I said.
I said, based on the information you gave me, that the 9-A in Sans profile shouldn't be there because 9-A is used to measure AP, not LS

Mass and Velocity. The magic just allows him to lifting and move objects by gravity hax, he doesn't need to match the force of the KE.

Hey hey hey hey hey! Don't change what the hax is mid argument. Is either telekinesis or is gravity manipulation.

Again, minimum damage possible.

Yes, that minimum damage possible is something Sans can do, as his check stats outright tells us he can

And the description is literally a red herring, because Sans does deal 1 damage.... per frame.

It also calls him "The easiest enemy", so it's only taking into account Sans stats and not his haxes, so durability negation doesn't matter for the "Can only deal one damage" statement.

And absolutely not².
Sans doesn't do one damage, he ignores invincibility frames with his magic regardless of karma. Karma only adds the poisonous extra effect.

So Sans' telekinesis doesn't harm Frisk with sheer strenght, it just ignores Frisk's durability and therefore shouldn't be 9-A.

The TK spam the the end is far stronger than any other before, chipping your HP away at least 1/3rd.

We measure what characters can do with one action, not several consecutive actions.

No, Sans deals one damage per frame due to durability negation.

This doesn't apply to telekinesis LS.

His telekinesis DOES deal 1 damage while ignoring invencibility frames.

He should not scale to someone because the formula couldn't do 0.0001 damage and has to reach 1 due to how the game function.

Then why does his profile say that he scales to Frisk for dealing 1 point of damage to them?

???
Says who?

You... CAN see that every attack from a monster does damage on frame one.

His Durability Hax doesn't take more than one frame to take effect, why would it?

Read what you're saying.
You say that Sans ignores durability by ignoring invencibility frames.
When you get hit, you receive damage in the first frame, and from the second and onwards you get invencibility frames.
The damage Sans deals starts at frame one, before invencibility frames are a factor at all.
Therefore, his durability negation is not the cause of him dealing one damage.

We also see karma taking effect in that same frame.

No, you see it getting added on frame one. It takes several frames for Karma to start taking effect.

It does bypass invincibility frames. How do we know that? Because Dante was thankful enough to link a video of the one-frame interaction, and, surprise, surprise, Frisk didn't go into the invincibility frames even though they only touched the bone for one frame.

Yes, just like his telekinesis. That same telekinesis that is rated 9-A.

Yes, the suggestion that a character doing 1 dmg due to game limitations should scale to said 1 dmg is ridiculous, and absurd.

And part of Sans' profile.

 

[PROPLAYEN]

Ok guys.

My mental health requires High-Godly regen to bypass EE type "Undertale VSbattle Threads"

This is some strong mental manip man

 

[Deleted member 16409]

This is some strong mental manip man

I got mind manip absolute immune

 

[GodlyCharmander]

That's not what I said.
I said, based on the information you gave me, that the 9-A in Sans profile shouldn't be there because 9-A is used to measure AP, not LS.

Yes, because it did damage to a 9-A character.

Hey hey hey hey hey! Don't change what the hax is mid argument. Is either telekinesis or is gravity manipulation.

?
It's telekinesis through gravity manipulation. He can just change the gravitational force, and ignore mobility, which means he has a much easier time flinging things at high speed.

That's why no other magic stat scales to Sans' telekinesis KE. Because the force he needs to exert to cause said KE to hurt 9-A people is far weaker then the actual force behind said KE. Why? Because while the KE formula takes Frisk's mass into consideration, Sans doesn't need to account for their mass since he can just negate it, and fling them as fast as his hand can move. He is essentially feeling like he is moving his hand while carrying 0kg, even though he is carrying a 30kg child with hax, because of how TK works.

Yes, that minimum damage possible is something Sans can do, as his check stats outright tells us he can.

He does. Per frame. Through Hax.

It also calls him "The easiest enemy", so it's only taking into account Sans stats

Leap in logic. "the easiest enemy" doesn't mean only stats are into consideration, it's clearly a joke for the fact he is the hardest boss in the game.

and not his haxes, so durability negation doesn't matter for the "Can only deal one damage" statement.

It would do one damage regardless of hax, yes.
Because that's the minimum damage possible in the damage formula.
Sans has a ATK of 1,
and guess what Dante?
I'm not scaling a random frogitt, who has an ATK of 2, to Undyne the Undying, just because its stronger than Sans.

Which is why, we are not scaling sans to geno frisk based on stats.

So Sans' telekinesis doesn't harm Frisk with sheer strenght, it just ignores Frisk's durability and therefore shouldn't be 9-A.

"Ah yes, Sans throws a person very hard at the wall, and their durability gets negated".
U funny.

But nah, slamming someone into the wall doesn't activate Invincibility Frames because it's not an attack/bullet hitting you, it's just a physical consequence.

We measure what characters can do with one action, not several consecutive actions.

Gatling attacks are a thing, and are acceptable.
But either way, it's still depicted TK significantly hurting Frisk.

His telekinesis DOES deal 1 damage while ignoring invencibility frames. Then why does his profile say that he scales to Frisk for dealing 1 point of damage to them?

It doesn't say that. No other instance of TK hurts them. The final stretch is clearly Sans trying his best to harm you, and it works.

You... CAN see that every attack from a monster does damage on frame one.

Really!? No way!!!
So an interaction programmed to happen, happens!?!??
Wow, Dante! Such insight!

Yes, attacks that don't negate hax do damage in one frame.
Because it's programmed to take damage when the interaction happens as soon as possible.

Yes, attacks that do negate hax also do damage in one frame
Because it's programmed to take 1 damage at every frame of interaction, including the first one.

LMAO, it's such a simple thing, why do you think you can twist it?

Read what you're saying.
You say that Sans ignores durability by ignoring invencibility frames.
When you get hit, you receive damage in the first frame, and from the second and onwards you get invencibility frames.
The damage Sans deals starts at frame one, before invencibility frames are a factor at all.
Therefore, his durability negation is not the cause of him dealing one damage.

PFFFFFFFFT

Aight, let me break down this logic.

"Invincibility Frames starts at frame 2. Therefore anything in frame 1 is the legit power of the attack"

No it isn't? What are you even saying, you don't understand the basics of programming.
No, Sans' attacks are programmed to chip away 1 HP per frame, plus add Karma for each frame. This doesn't change on the first frame, it would have done 1 HP regardless of invincibility frames or not, the interaction happens without factoring these INV frames in.

So they not being present is not relevant, because the programmed interaction doesn't factor them in at all, that's the whole mechanic.

Saying "Well, since INV frames take effect in frame two, everything in frame one follows the damage formula" is nonsense.
Because first, yeah, obviously, no sh*t, Sherlock, INV frames just stop the formula from being applied on every frame.
And second, this doesn't apply for the functionality of Sans' attacks. Toby Fox would have to willingly program Sans' attacks to work normally for EXACTLY one frame.
Spoilers: He didn't. The attack ignores durability from the first frame to the last. You also see the other programmed effect being taken into consideration on the very first frame, so your argument falls apart.

No, you see it getting added on frame one. It takes several frames for Karma to start taking effect.

Nope. Karma is added in the first frame. It's a poisonous effect, obviously it takes time to chip away your HP, lmao.
It's still in effect as soon as you touch the bone. There is an interval between each hit point being taken, that's aways the case, lol.

Yes, just like his telekinesis. That same telekinesis that is rated 9-A.
And part of Sans' profile.

It isn't.

Bye bye. Please stop trying to make serious changes, you're clearly not capable of forming an actual argument, or issue with serious ratings.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Bye bye. Please stop trying to make serious changes, you're clearly not capable of forming an actual argument, or issue with serious ratings.

I wonder... does it apply on me...

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

Charmander.
Buddy.
Please stop and read.

The propouse of this thread is to answer a question: Why is telekinesis, which is magic and deals as much damage as any other of Sans' attacks, considered to be so much stronger?

Your answer was that Sans' regular attacks only deal the minimum ammount of damage and ignore durability by ignoring invencibility frames, which is exactly what his telekinesis does. Your answer has a problem and you can see it.

You also say that Sans' telekinesis is gravity manipulation, in which case it shouldn't be rated 9-A because it's force would depend on the mass of the target.

Now, before you type another answer, make sure that what it does is justify Sans' page current state. If you can't do that, don't answer and just wait for someone else to try. If no one else can, then, and only then, we make another thread (A CRT) to discuss what to do with Sans' page.

This thread is not a CRT, stop pretending it is.

 

[Arceus0x]

Undertale threads be like:

 

[Deleted member 16409]

This thread is not a CRT, stop pretending it is.

God I thought that this is CRT