This is a 10-round Swiss-style tournament!!! (Link to Tournament page) Round 2; Match 12: Helltaker vs Yu

[First_Witch]

Yes.

Lol. Lmao even. Yu negs, its like, not even debateable.

 

[First_Witch]

But his functions differently. I dunno if we just assume having a resistance to a specific type of AP means they can resist all forms of AP. If we do, then Helltaker's an easy hit. If we don't, then I think he's difficult to tag.

You would have to provide a reason as to why Helltakers' supposedly different though. AnaPre is intrinsicly skill based and Yu's resist far more complex and effective AnaPre based on skill alone.

 

[azontr]

understand that when your AP is based on movements of the body. But when you've got some weird esoteric one that lets you predict moves before there's any sign of it I disagree. If you predicted 3 of my punches in advance and thus threw a strike, my react would then change as I then predicted you throwing that punch you had just thrown.

You literally just repeated what you said prior and I already debunked that. Yu's actions will be constantly changing to suit Helltaker's movements several steps ahead. Every time he makes a movement to counter Yu has already intercepted 20 other possible ways he could dodge.

I haven't zigzagged around it though. I acknowledged for combat purposes it's superior. My problem was how he's gonna tag someone who can predict Danmaku 50x faster than himself just because he can predict several moves ahead. It doesn't help when they start 70 meters away and Helltaker can then just choose to run until Yu tires.

Acknowledging a point does not mean you aren't zig-zagging around it with your arguments. I've already addressed why Helltaker being able to predict attacks faster than himself is irrelevant in previous points, and you've yet to properly address it, thus zig-zagging around it.

Also, speed is equalized here, so Helltaker running away to tire out Yu is not an option.

 

[azontr]

I've already said all I've had to say, I'm remaining adamant that Helltaker clearly has 0 chance of victory, thus making this match a stomp and not viable to be added to the profiles.

I won't be going in circles.

 

[First_Witch]

I won't be going in circles.

Ah, the same as Yu then. Because the Boxing Ring is a Square.

Ha.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

2 Points for Yu. Woooo

 

[azontr]

Ah, the same as Yu then. Because the Boxing Ring is a Square.

Ha.

You are a worthless bitchass [slur]. Your life literally is as valuable as a summer ant. I'm just gonna stomp you, you're gonna keep coming back, imma seal up all my cracks, you gonna keep coming back, why? 'Cause you keep smelling the syrup, you worthless bitchass [slur]. You gonna stay on my dick until you die! You serve no purpose in life. Your purpose in life is being on my stream sucking on my dick daily! Your purpose is being in that chat blowing that dick daily! Your life is nothing! You serve zero purpose! You should kill yourself now! And give somebody else a piece of that oxygen and ozone layer, that's covered up so we can breathe inside this blue trapped bubble. Because what are you here for? To worship me? Kill yourself. I mean that, with a hundred percent. With a thousand percent.

 

[LaserPrecision]

You literally just repeated what you said prior and I already debunked that. Yu's actions will be constantly changing to suit Helltaker's movements several steps ahead. Every time he makes a movement to counter Yu has already intercepted 20 other possible ways he could dodge.

Stating you debunked a point doesn't make it bunk. Yu's actions will be constantly changing, as will Helltaker's in reaction to those changes. Yu can also only intercept a few paths he could dodge as he's limited to four limbs. He can't occupy that many places at once. I think I get what you were saying tho.

Acknowledging a point does not mean you aren't zig-zagging around it with your arguments. I've already addressed why Helltaker being able to predict attacks faster than himself is irrelevant in previous points, and you've yet to properly address it, thus zig-zagging around it.

I have addressed it. You not deeming it proper is another issue altogether.

Also, speed is equalized here, so Helltaker running away to tire out Yu is not an option.

Okay? That means Yu would never gain on Helltaker. You need to be faster to gain on someone sprinting. If you're not, the distance between the two of them will always remain the same. Meaning it is a valid option. If he were SLOWER than yea, it wouldn't work.

Btw, you can put my vote for Yu too.

 

[azontr]

Stating you debunked a point doesn't make it bunk. Yu's actions will be constantly changing, as will Helltaker's in reaction to those changes. Yu can also only intercept a few paths he could dodge as he's limited to four limbs. He can't occupy that many places at once. I think I get what you were saying tho.

I have addressed it. You not deeming it proper is another issue altogether.

Okay? That means Yu would never gain on Helltaker. You need to be faster to gain on someone sprinting. If you're not, the distance between the two of them will always remain the same. Meaning it is a valid option. If he were SLOWER than yea, it wouldn't work.

Btw, you can put my vote for Yu too.

My honest reaction:

 

[LaserPrecision]

My honest reaction:

 

[First_Witch]

Okay? That means Yu would never gain on Helltaker. You need to be faster to gain on someone sprinting. If you're not, the distance between the two of them will always remain the same. Meaning it is a valid option. If he were SLOWER than yea, it wouldn't work.

This has to be the funniest argument I have read in a while. Im like fairly certain that being away from the battle for a prolonged time is self-incapation, and even if not; Is it in character for Helltaker to run away the moment the battle starts? When he dosnt know how hard Yu outclasses in the first place? And what makes you think Yu is going to chase after him in the first place? He could just sit down and chill while Helltaker removes himself from battle.

 

[azontr]

This has to be the funniest argument I have read in a while. Im like fairly certain that being away from the battle for a prolonged time is self-incapation, and even if not; Is it in character for Helltaker to run away the moment the battle starts? When he dosnt know how hard Yu outclasses in the first place? And what makes you think Yu is going to chase after him in the first place? He could just sit down and chill while Helltaker removes himself from battle.

That's actually probably a lot more plausible icl, Yu in-character would never chase after an opponent lmao.

 

[First_Witch]

I mean, as a professional boxer, thats like seeing his opponent leave the ring and refusing to come back in. Apologies, but thats such a dumb argument Laser, no offense

 

[azontr]

I mean, as a professional boxer, thats like seeing his opponent leave the ring and refusing to come back in. Apologies, but thats such a dumb argument Laser, no offense

Actually something he's experienced before- One of his opponents ran away after he whooped they ass and he made no attempt to give chase or continue the fight.

 

[LaserPrecision]

This has to be the funniest argument I have read in a while. Im like fairly certain that being away from the battle for a prolonged time is self-incapation, and even if not; Is it in character for Helltaker to run away the moment the battle starts? When he dosnt know how hard Yu outclasses in the first place? And what makes you think Yu is going to chase after him in the first place? He could just sit down and chill while Helltaker removes himself from battle.

I mean yeah, I'd say him running around is fairly in-character. In the game he runs for like the entire Judgement fight, and in the comics we see that instead of fighting the jobber of hell he just runs away even when they're attacking him. Only knocking them off once they've clung on (Though he was on a mission to recruit a harem). I'd say it's in-character for him to run around and wait for an opening to attack.

I mean if he doesn't chase him he can just stop and wait for him to chase. He'll run to get Yu to come in and learn his attack patterns. He's not gonna keep running if he's not giving chase tho.

I mean, as a professional boxer, thats like seeing his opponent leave the ring and refusing to come back in. Apologies, but thats such a dumb argument Laser, no offense

I mean in this case he runs, notices Yu doesn't follow him and waits for him to eventually attack or chase. If he doesn't, they just kinda end up inconning from both doing nothing but standing and waiting for the other to do something.

 

[azontr]

He'll run to get Yu to come in and learn his attack patterns

Yu has no attack patterns. The entire point of being a "genius" in the Boxer is having no patterns and being unpredictable, so his moves are ever-changing if he wants them to be. And I can grab scans if necessary.

 

[First_Witch]

Yeah no, as someone who hasnt even touched The Boxer and is as such neutral, Yu god stomps and there is literally no argument to be had. Yu's AnaPre is several magnitudes better, He godstomps in skill, he, until a actual argument against it has been made, resists Helltakers only relevant ability, sees him in slowmotion and literally kills with a single hit. Scratch Helltaker surviving Yu, what can he even do that you could consider a wincondition? Tire the guy out that literally oneshots you?

 

[azontr]

hasnt even touched The Boxer

You should it's very good.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Has Yu ever lost a CQC versus match? lol

 

[First_Witch]

You should it's very good.

Someday

 

[azontr]

Has Yu ever lost a CQC versus match? lol

Not to my knowledge, no.

 

[First_Witch]

Has Yu ever lost a CQC versus match? lol

Thats what happens if you throw haxless pleps at skilllords

No, this does not mean you should start throwing haxlords at Yu now

 

[LaserPrecision]

Yu has no attack patterns. The entire point of being a "genius" in the Boxer is having no patterns and being unpredictable, so his moves are ever-changing if he wants them to be. And I can grab scans if necessary.

Which will result in him running more. No need for scans tho, I believe you, lol. I am playing devils advocate.

Yeah no, as someone who hasnt even touched The Boxer and is as such neutral, Yu god stomps and there is literally no argument to be had. Yu's AnaPre is several magnitudes better, He godstomps in skill, he, until a actual argument against it has been made, resists Helltakers only relevant ability, sees him in slowmotion and literally kills with a single hit. Scratch Helltaker surviving Yu, what can he even do that you could consider a wincondition? Tire the guy out that literally oneshots you?

The question regarding if resisting one type of AP means you can resist all types was never answered. If so, then I agree Helltaker's is useless. If it doesn't let you, then it isn't a fruitless ability.

Precisely yes. His only win-con would be tiring them out. Tho you make it seem as tho tiring out someone who can one-shot you is impossible as if it correlates to stamina.

 

[azontr]

Which will result in him running more. No need for scans tho, I believe you, lol. I am playing devils advocate.

Yu's not going to chase him if he runs. He's not so passionate about winning a fight that he will literally chase after a dude running away from him.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Not to my knowledge, no.

Yu's real final boss ain't Garou, ain't Goku... it's this menace with no equipment

 

[LaserPrecision]

Yu's not going to chase him if he runs. He's not so passionate about winning a fight that he will literally chase after a dude running away from him.

Which results in an incon as Helltaker then stops and waits for him. I'm sorry for ratting don't hate me

 

[azontr]

Literally the least convincing argument I've ever seen in my mortal lifespan, but, that's cool ig.

Still pretty adamant on my stance.

 

[First_Witch]

The question regarding if resisting one type of AP means you can resist all types was never answered. If so, then I agree Helltaker's is useless. If it doesn't let you, then it isn't a fruitless ability.

I kinda did? AnaPre is, again, intrinsicaly a skillbased ability, outside of fringe cases. As long as youre predicting something based on readable cues, like bodymovemen, thats AnaPre. So you will have to proof that Helltakers is based on something that is not covered by Yu's resistancw.

Precisely yes. His only win-con would be tiring them out. Tho you make it seem as tho tiring out someone who can one-shot you is impossible as if it correlates to stamina.

Son, Helltalker would literally need to run a perfect NoHit run for several hours. He might have pulled that up against his similary skilled Demon Waifus. But against a dude so exorbitantly skilled in hitting people? A skill honed against people similary skilled?

 

[LaserPrecision]

Literally the least convincing argument I've ever seen in my mortal lifespan, but, that's cool ig.

Still pretty adamant on my stance.

If you think that you should see the arguments for Tier 0 Sonic

Understandable. I'm just trying to add a loss to Helltaker's profile. My goals are beyond normal understanding.

 

[First_Witch]

Which results in an incon as Helltaker then stops and waits for him. I'm sorry for ratting don't hate me

And that aint a incon, thats Yu's win because its Helltaker removing himself from the fight lmao

 

[azontr]

If you think that you should see the arguments for Tier 0 Sonic

Understandable. I'm just trying to add a loss to Helltaker's profile. My goals are beyond normal understanding.

Weakness, aim for a perfect victory, egoist. [Insert Blue Lock gif]

 

[LaserPrecision]

I kinda did? AnaPre is, again, intrinsicaly a skillbased ability, outside of fringe cases. As long as youre predicting something based on readable cues, like bodymovemen, thats AnaPre. So you will have to proof that Helltakers is based on something that is not covered by Yu's resistancw.

His doesn't seem to be based on readable cues tho. That's what I said a while ago. It's why I think he should have precog, not AP. He was able to predict chains magically spawning into existence without any cues.

Son, Helltalker would literally need to run a perfect NoHit run for several hours. He might have pulled that up against his similary skilled Demon Waifus. But against a dude so exorbitantly skilled in hitting people? A skill honed against people similary skilled?

I mean he could def tire him by running around. The moment Yu would stop running Helltaker would wait for them to persue again. If he chooses not to pursue the two just kinda... wait for each other.

 

[LaserPrecision]

And that aint a incon, thats Yu's win because its Helltaker removing himself from the fight lmao

Not removing himself. Just staying out of range. He's not gonna run off and go grab a bite. He's gonna sprint, then notice he's not being chased and wait for Yu to do something and then start running again. Precisely what he did against Judgement. Just waited the match out till she gave up

 

[First_Witch]

His doesn't seem to be based on readable cues tho. That's what I said a while ago. It's why I think he should have precog, not AP. He was able to predict chains magically spawning into existence without any cues.

The lack of mechanics will not allow him to bypass the general rules of AnaPre. If he could see the one spawning those chains during their fight, the basic assumption would be AnaPre based on Bodycues.

And im now 99% sure that matches in which a opponent can at best force a incon through rule loopholes while standing absolutly no chance otherwise to be invalid matches. Something something suicide JoJo-stand something something. Standing by my point, Yu stomps

 

[LaserPrecision]

The lack of mechanics will not allow him to bypass the general rules of AnaPre. If he could see the one spawning those chains during their fight, the basic assumption would be AnaPre based on Bodycues.

But Judgement was both out of sight during the fight (Purposely flew to where she couldn't be seen) and doesn't use gestures to summon her chains. They're thought based. It's why I felt precog was warranted but I got jumped for suggesting it in the CRT for it.

And im now 99% sure that matches in which a opponent can at best force a incon through rule loopholes while standing absolutly no chance otherwise to be invalid matches. Something something suicide JoJo-stand something something. Standing by my point, Yu stomps

The best he can do is tiring Yu for a win. Not forcing an incon. But based on Yu's character it seems he'd end up causing the incon.

 

[First_Witch]

But Judgement was both out of sight during the fight (Purposely flew to where she couldn't be seen) and doesn't use gestures to summon her chains. They're thought based. It's why I felt precog was warranted but I got jumped for suggesting it in the CRT for it.

Have you perchance considered that this just instinctive Reaction? If he isnt reading anything, it aint AnaPre and if he dosnt explicitly read the future, it aint precognition.

I aint gonna entertain this running around argument anymore, Helltaker basically BFR himself if he runs away from his own combat range and Yu stands down. Im hitting the bed now.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

You should it's very good.

I would myself but the eyes unsettle me

 

[AnAverageUsername]

anyways yeah it seems like Yu stomps

 

[azontr]

I would myself but the eyes unsettle me

Pussy.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Have you perchance considered that this just instinctive Reaction? If he isnt reading anything, it aint AnaPre and if he dosnt explicitly read the future, it aint precognition.

Huh, that's possible. Albeit isn't that his body moving on its own?

I aint gonna entertain this running around argument anymore, Helltaker basically BFR himself if he runs away from his own combat range and Yu stands down. Im hitting the bed now.

Doesn't sound like BFR if the two are within range and Yu just chooses to give up tbh.