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When and where ?
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Their profiles look decent so I'm doing this. Demon King's Representative vs The strongest Sorcerer in the world
- Thread starter Pepsiman25th
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Jujutsu massive CRT haven't come yet
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You are right, it has not been accepted yet, I misread your comment mb
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bump
speedster352
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Zeldris fra
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I don't plan to vote here, but verse equalization only applies if the two energy systems are similar enough. If they aren't, they aren't equalized by default (Though the OP could probably equalize it themself). I couldn't tell you if these energy systems are similar enough to equalize because I'm only early on in both series.
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They are totally different
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If that's true, then they wouldn't be able to be equalized based on SBA. It'd have to be up to the OP as far as I know.
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Like what?
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In Purgatory, negative emotions led to a transformation in Ban, with him becoming a monstrosity. This is akin to the likes of the Finger Bearers.
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Is it Verse Esualized ?
If that’s the case Negative energy passively null infinity
God powernull works too if Zel walk through infinity
Zel can use space Manip too
Miasma would kill if Gojo doesn’t resist
Zeldris can null regen
Zeldris can get out of territory expansions
Zeldris can even null them passively with negative energy
Zeldris has ON
Can seal too
Rage power blitz and one shot
Enchantments one shot
DM2 blitz
Zel resist mind manips
He has Mid High regen
Can seal
Ranged IR
And i think he takes skills too
Chandler Cuzack Zel and Mel are implied to be able to take on Excalibur
It is stated that no human can cross swords with them on equal terms
meaning they should bypass Precog and IR to an extent
Impossible to throw their senses off
Voting Zel He has wincons
If that’s the case Negative energy passively null infinity
God powernull works too if Zel walk through infinity
Zel can use space Manip too
Miasma would kill if Gojo doesn’t resist
Zeldris can null regen
Zeldris can get out of territory expansions
Zeldris can even null them passively with negative energy
Zeldris has ON
Can seal too
Rage power blitz and one shot
Enchantments one shot
DM2 blitz
Zel resist mind manips
He has Mid High regen
Can seal
Ranged IR
And i think he takes skills too
Chandler Cuzack Zel and Mel are implied to be able to take on Excalibur
It is stated that no human can cross swords with them on equal terms
meaning they should bypass Precog and IR to an extent
Impossible to throw their senses off
Voting Zel He has wincons
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Magic applies to everything ranging From non magical unnatural elements
To natural elements
Reality based abilities
I think it’s almost impossible not to find similarities
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Commandments can be argued to be Laws/concepts too they can be nulled by true magic Also souls are currently considered as abstract/Conceptual existences too in the forms of emotions etc… God’s power nulls the commandments effects so We could argue for it being able to null Law/Conceptual based powers
Lugh_Tuathe_Dé
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It's probably best to get that accepted first.
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Yeah it might be accepted for the Law and AE part it was more for « correction » purposes we don’t even need it here
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Hmm, Cursed energy in both its origins and how it works is very far removed from the magic of SDS. These two Magic systems shouldn't be equalised to one another automatically.
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Also this is rubbish. No one ever resist the love or repose commandments so they shouldn't be apart of this scaling chain. No one ever resist vanish counter nor is it noted to be more powerful than high ranking demons so it shouldn't be a part of this scaling chain. Magic seals are also treated separate to all this so don't know why they're a part of this chain since Sealing and Powernull are two separate things. Absolute Cancel is also never shown to be resisted by anyone either. And while Archangels can't be affected by commandments, the in-verse is not stated or shown since Grace's are more often a matter of AP not hax so they shouldn't be apart of the chain either. High demon darkness and High Rankin demons resistance are essentially the same so it shouldn't work like that at all. The actual Powernull Resistance Chain is this:
Demon king/zeldris "God" Skill>high demon darkness = high goddess ark powernull
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God > AM Negative energy > DM2 negative energy > Merlin = graces > Commandments > Ark is the very least you can use for these layers
Also nothing in graces is AP related
Merlin didn’t receive any she got simple blessings and you can add rage amps to the equation and other steps like forms since we accept that similar bumps in power result in similar bumps in negative energy and the gap between DM2 NE and AM NE is so big that it could probably cover multiple layers
Huh?
Negative energy is the exact same thing litteraly
Magic in general is a feeling’s based concept that fluctuate with the emotions of it’s user as stated In recent chapter 75
It has a variety of applications
Magic is volatile in nature and it’s traits can be different From person to person anyone has it’s own magic
I mean it’s even called negative energy lol
So both rely exactly on the same things and has exactly the same possibilities to apply to it should be equalized Zeldris one taps God in fact grants immunity to magic more than any layered resistance btw
PS: The Vanish Counter argument was awful it’s been used a single time we don’t even accept it in layers chains refrain on using it
Double PS: I Just got out of a 2 hrs of sleep night and i’m getting back to it sorry if i expressed myself poorly i had like 5 hrs of sleep in the last 2 days i’m dying rn ahah (I also am French and might make english mistakes) see you in a few hours
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No that's not how it works at all. When it comes to hax resistance, you need an actually chain of people resisting something. The difference in potency between all these things has nothing to do with resistances. And negative energy as a concept for the verse is only related to one spell which Megilascula use so extrapolating it out and attempting to use it for everything else doesn't make any sense. And the only thing we have for that is Megilascula's spell and then God. Nothing else is just resisted so the scaling chain proposed above is nonsense.
And each Grace is either AP or Speed. Sunshine is purely AP with no hax, Ocean is also AP with no Hax, same as Tornado, and Flash is speed amping. None of the graces have an Hax to resist.
Magic does not equal Cursed Energy. That's what I'm saying, because magic in NNT isn't anything like cursed energy.
The source of an individual's power is stated to be drawn from one's will, beliefs and experiences. As stated in chapter 66 of NNT. Not at all what cursed energy
Magic has a host of subtypes, from which all Magic has to exist within the setting. Cursed Energy has no form of subtypes, it merely has a collection of techniques mostly unrelated from another. Cursed Energy is a system which allows for the creation of conditions and vows in order to enhance the strength of the techinques from Cursed Users, Magic in NNT has no such system of working.
Magic comes from the land originally in SDS and is now consolidated within those living on Britania, as noted by the commandments when they first leave their coffin, where Cursed Energy has always come from humans in JJK.
Negative energy in SDS also works nothing like Cursed Energy in JJK. The only thing they share is an origin in coming from negative emotions, but cursed but negative energy otherwise just works as part of the types of magics from NNT while Cursed Energy is its own system. So equalizing the two doesn't make sense since all they really share are similar names.
The system of Magic in NNT can not be equalized to Cursed Energy. They are not similar enough for that to be acceptable.
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DM 2 Meliodas Negative energy couldn’t nullify the cocoon AM Mel did…
Graces resist the effects of Commandments power null included
Sunshine isn’t only AP based Ocean and tornado aren’t either it’s more about abilities
It is related to the feelings and is negative energy i adressed why it is very similar
Cursed energy is drawn From anger and feelings In general
Cursed energy related techniques have ranging effects they aren’t simply techniques they are applications of one’s power Just like magic has several effects depending on one’s power
Magic comes from Chaos and can be manipulated by anyone that has strong enough feelings
Cursed energy can be manipulated by the curses themselves not only humans
Both emanate From the same things and magic in general emanate From feelings negative energy is not even considered as magic btw and magic types aren’t necessarily magic either that’s Just a general name it can englobe non magical darkness natural elements etc…
They Both originate from feelings and have ranging applications can reinforce through said feelings etc…
Magic emanate From Chaos and it’s créations (He Made humans to look like him and to be like him) they are the ones to produce said power through their innate feelings
Just like humans and curses in JJK
Anyway attacks that require a special type to work are equalized to give a proper fight Here Cursed energy should be equalized if it’s not then Both types are incompatible and We massively restrain Zeldris for absolutely 0 reasons
We accept Anti magic as nullifying Chakra even though Both aren’t similar btw fra
His Space Manip is enough anyway
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My point here is that the Graces themselves have nothing to be resisted so their powernull resistance is only baseline and they exist out of relation to God's powernull. So they shouldn't be used as part of any scaling chain.
Cursed energy techinques don't exist in categories though, which is an important part of the NNT powersystem. Just both having unqiue techinques isn't good support when that can be said for power systems like Nen or Stands, but we wouldn't equalize them just cause of that.
Cursed spirits are cursed energy that's built up to the point it's gained a consciousness, something whole sepearate from anything in NNT so another notch against the two being similar.
They do not emanate from the same thing. Cursed energy is born only from negativity where magic in SDS is a collection of things, not just emotions. And I know negative energy isn't considered as magic, which would give even less reason to try to equalize magic to cursed energy. And as stated by Pellegarde, magic only falls under 9 types. Not to mention as I said above, magic spawning from Chaos and being bestowed upon humanity makes it very different than Cursed energy which only comes from humans and no other source. Cursed energy lacks anything like this.
Special type only goes for something like Anti-magic which requires magic to work. However, God doesn't require somehting specific like negative energy it just requires a broad thing in magic. And you're acting like the in-verse isn't also true for Gojo, but eqalizing cursed energy to magic where it shouldn't be, we massibely restraing Gojo for absolutely 0 reasons. Keep that energy both ways.
And Anti-Magic nullifying chakra works prety well since magic in black clover and chakra in Naruto work very similarly.
Both are generated by humans and can be found in nature naturally.
Both can also be used to flatly increase strength, speed, and durability.
Both have types, such as elemental ninjutsu and elemental magic, and even a variety of techinques that fall out of this normal system.
Both are also inherent with everyone having either a bit of magic or chakra normally.
Etc. etc.
And the differences between the two also aren't substantial like with cursed energy and magic in NNT.
Cursed energy is naturally invisible where magic isn't in NNT.
Cursed energy has a system of laws and vows where NNT lacks anything of that nature.
Cursed energy is solely reliant on negative emotions, where magic in NNT is influenced by much more.
Cursed energy is naturally toxic to humans where magic isn't in NNT.
Etc.etc.
Cursed energy and Magic in NNT are so widely different that they should not be equalized
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I’ve asked the OP creator but I think they aren’t that different
Space Manip still can cut through infinity sealings still works on Gojo too
Demons resist naturally purgatory and miasma related effects Zel’s senses can’t be thrown or manipulated he can outspeed with his rage power
And that’s while limiting his abilities to the straight minimum
When a character is heavily dependent on the energy type he normally gets equalized
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Similarity in how they function. Not in their effects. Take My Hero for example. All of their abilities function based on biological developments they've evolved to have over the years. That's not the same as something magic like say any magic spell from Harry Potter.
Making magic that broad makes it too easy to equalize ANY energy system.
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Out of curiosity, has anyone addressed Domain Expansion? Does Zeldris have anything to counter that? If so, that eliminates a big win-con for Gojo.
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He resists mind based hax and can break out of dimensions/has space Manip
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But has he shown to resist his mind processing infinite information? Or only finite.
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He can resist the effects of things that destroy entirely the mind and make it rot
His Senses can’t be manipulated either since he has facilities as a demon to live inside of purgatory
In character does Gojo use Domain extension immediately?
Cause IIRC he does not
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Also the mental backgrounds/spiritual spaces of Nnt character reject entirely anything that’s new and should not be in their mind as soon as it affects them or interact with said spiritual space
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- Thread starter
- #73
I thought this thread was done and dead in the grave
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Ahah it seems like it’s not
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The thread creator wants to close this He isn’t interested by this anymore
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I haven't read all of JJK, but he's used it twice from up to where I've read. And he's only been in a few fights. The latest fight I read (Against Mahito, Jogo, and Hanami, in which he used Domain expansion).
I don't think he manipulates sense directly. He overloads your brain with literal infinite information which paralyzes an opponent. Putting them in a vegetative state.
That seems kinda specific. To a degree I don't quite grasp it. Could I get a screenshot of this? I'm unsure if it's work against Domain Expansion since on top of having layered power null, it puts infinite info into ones head. Which means against most characters who have normal mind manipulation resistance, it isn't very effective as they're only fed finite information.
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Mhh so not something He spams every Time
Which is a mind Manip and would get nulled by Zel’s inner world Also it would need to get to his senses anyway
Anything that isn’t naturally in his mind gets erased if it affects him Here it prevent him from getting affected by any foreign object
His Senses can’t be overwhelmed by information since they can’t even get manipulated in the first place
And even if He could affect His Senses Gojo doesn’t use unlimited void as a first move and even while not being counscious demons can still fight
Zeldris can bypass infinity with his own space Manip and He basically one taps Gojo with his 10x enchantment amp (He already is superior to Large Mountain lvl Gojo without it)
The creator wants to close this anyway UwU Send toes
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He doesn't spam it no. But he uses it in a fair amount of his fights. of the 2 of 3 fights that take place in the present (from what I've read) he used Domain Expansion. It's a good way to incapacitate the enemy if he doesn't want to kill them. Though it can be used to kill the opponent.
But they've only been shown to erase finite amounts of stuff that enters his mind, right? I keep mentioning that it forces you to process infinite information is because being able to resist finite amounts of information isn't at all comparable to resisting literally infinite information. Can you also give me that chapter so I can find an official translation?
I'd have to reread the chapter, but I think it overwhelms the brain, not the senses. Since anyone exposed to it is forced to process infinite information, they're incapable of performing any other actions and are paralyzed as they can't get their body to do any actions as their brain is being forced to process said infinite information. Leaving their brain to busy to do anything else such as get their body to move. I'll reread when he uses it to see if anything are stated about senses though.
The move doesn't make you unconscious though. You're completely conscious during the process. It just paralyzes your body because the targets brain is stimulated by infinite stimuli. I can get a scan of him using it on Jogo if that would help.
Fair. Though I think Gojo could last a while given he can teleport away from danger if he needs to. Would it also be possible to somewhat mitigate the space manip by expanding his infinity range? It kind of depends on the range/AoE of Zeldris' space manip.
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They do?
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ok
He can’t affect His Senses From the beginning and doesn’t even start with Domain expansion the process of erasing things works on everything that tries to affect him but We don’t even need it since senses are irrelevant to those that can survive purgatory like High ranking demons or people with God’s power
It might be around chapter 300 iirc but the scans i’ve sent are the official translated panels
It makes them see and hear things that overwhelm their brains which wouldn’t affect Zel’s Sixth sense
I know this scan that doesn’t change the fact that His Senses can’t be thrown out and his mind automatically reject anything that intrudes automatically
Zel has been shown to bypass infinite teleportation Zel can cut through space on the entire length of his sword He can Also increase his range to hit further with darkness a single shot Would be enough to obliterate Gojo
Zel’s body/darkness can move instinctively anyway
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