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The Weather Trio and Regis Upgrades

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ORAS Version:

"Terrible… So this is what was being depicted in that painting in Granite Cave. If this doesn't stop, all Hoenn—no, the entire world—will burn up. Nothing could live in such a land of death—neither Pokémon nor humans! This dreadful blaze… It must be caused by the sweltering heat wave forming above Sootopolis…"
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
Didn't Kyogre like cause rain across the entire world in Sapphire? Didn't Groudon start causing harsh sunlight across the world in Ruby?
Click to expand...
Idk about the originals but in ORAS base Groudon and Kyogre do that nigh-instantly just by literally waking up. That says how casual the feat is, even for base.

Also, I dont know why we're suddenly questioning "said to be". That trope is a common thing for all legendary and mythical pokemon and we accept it. We shouldnt nit-pick here regarding this specifically.
 
"Also, I dont know why we're suddenly questioning "said to be". That trope is a common thing for all legendary and mythical pokemon and we accept it. We shouldnt nit-pick here regarding this specifically."

We haven't used it for anything besides the Creation Trio, where they are explicitly shown to embody time, space and antimatter.

Also, two wrongs don't make a right.
 
@Ever

I'm pretty sure that's completely wrong. We use "said to be" for literally all legendaries, not just the CT. And unless there's an obvious contradiction within itself there's 0 reason to doubt the legendaries background as usuable feat material for them.
 
"We use "said to be" for literally all legendaries, not just the CT."

I have never seen us do this.
 
-Reshiram (It's calc specifically anyway)

-Groudo

-Kyogre

-Moltres

-Lugia

-Entei

-Zygarde

7 examples here that have nothing to do with CT. Ignorning the legendaries that are where they are through powerscaling, these legendaries use pokedex entries as part of their justifications for their tiers and no issues. Heck, literally most of these 7 have their dex entries as the first thing on their pages. Zygarde specifically, while a powerscaler, only exceeds Xerneas AND Yveltal through statements and no one bats an eye.

Which goes back to my specific point (note: specific) about "said to be". We accept legendary backgrounds as feats here for all legendaries. Not just feats but, frankly, as the basis of all their powers and abilities. We can't just backpedal from this and nitpick.
 
I think you missed the entire point of what I was saying.

Using the Pokedex or not has nothing to do with this. Fact is, the Weather Trio has never proven that they're the embodiments of the land, sea and sky. Basing such a thing on "said to be" in a Pokedex entry is ridiculous.
 
Kukui you missed the point entirely.

The simply fact is that nothing actually proves they are embodiments of the land, sea and sky other than "it is said" statements. Completely different from actual "it is said" feats. We are arguing whether they are embodiments, not if said feats are legit... Also said Reshiram feat is not an "it is said feat" it was very bluntly stated.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
Kukui you missed the point entirely.
The simply fact is that nothing actually proves they are embodiments of the land, sea and sky other than "it is said" statements. Completely different from actual "it is said" feats. We are arguing whether they are embodiments, not if said feats are legit... Also said Reshiram feat is not an "it is said feat" it was very bluntly stated.
Click to expand...
That kind of isnt true for Reshiram since its AP calc relies heavily on his pokedex statement (hence why I said the calc specifically)

But fair enough on everything else then. Im neutral to the embodiment of concept stuff.
 
Well if we aren't using embodiment stuff we need calcs to back of their ratings. I'm going to help with Primak Kyogre's storm tonight, but that won't be applicable to their base forms.
 
Again Kukui, it's not the fact that it's a Pokedex statement, it's that the statement itself is vague as hell and never proven.
 
Is the storm mentioned to be instantly planetary like it is in Generations and Alpha Sapphire? If it is we can get a timeframe and go from there.
 
So we have Groudon's. I assume Kyogre is the same. Now we need a timeframe.
 
The weather trio is just a species, there are various of each of them out there.
 
Your saying there is more than one Groudon? Also I don't see how that has any relevance here.
 
The Everlasting said:
"We use "said to be" for literally all legendaries, not just the CT."

I have never seen us do this.
Click to expand...
Regigigas:

"There's an enduring legend that states this Pokémon towed continents with a rope."

So yeah, we do this. And don't bring up the calc being debunked, that's not the point.
 
That's not a "said to be". It's not saying something like "it's said that Darkrai is the embodiment of Christmas". It's saying that there is indeed a legend that says that Regigigas towed the continents.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
That's not a "said to be". It's not saying something like "it's said that Darkrai is the embodiment of Christmas". It's saying that there is indeed a legend that says that Regigigas towed the continents.
Click to expand...
@XYZ

Not to be rude, bu isnt that false equivalency?
 
@Yobo

Um...no? Matter of fact, I am saying the examples are actually different. I'm not saying they are the same.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
@Yobo
Um...no? Matter of fact, I am saying the examples are actually different. I'm not saying they are the same.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. I was kind of confused by the Darkrai point.
 
Also, that's very false. There's only one of each. All boxart trios are one-of-a-kind.

Unless you're joking.

Anyway, yeah, the conceptual stuff is a no-go (even though I'm the one who brought it up, though in my defense, I wasn't sure). However, the debunk of the whole "it is said" thing is pretty bad, no offense (to clarify, you're right, but you used bad reasoning)

I don't necessarily see 5-B (unless Kyogre's storm is very high), but I could see tier 5, and undoubtedly higher than Regigigas's feat.
 
Just letting people realize that we never said anything about "it is said" being non legit. We just said that here, nothing really puts them as Conceptual Embodiments of the Land, Sea and Sky.
 
I side with that (what Dragon said, if I got ninja'd). Though, I wouldn't be surprised if it means that they have the entire power of the land/oceans.
 
@Kep Continents in Pokémon are very light then OvO (And that is the main problem in considering them as being incarnations of continents, seas and sky).
 
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