The Walking Dead TV Show P&A Additions + Small Change In The Scaling Chain

[MarkGoldbridge]

Summary​

Just a few things that caught my eye while I was rewatching the show.

All Characters​

Resistance to Disease Manipulation

• (Characters in the show are all infected with the Wildfire virus but none of them turn until death. Dr. Edwin Jenner told this thing to Rick privately and later on in the show Rick explained what Jenner said to him to the group)

Rick​

Rage Power

• I'll explain this through a few scenes;
  
  
• Season 1 Rick is arguably the weakest version of him, as we see in this clip he hardly even damaged a walker's face with a shovel, let alone kill him (which he manages to do with his bare hands in later seasons). Yet, he still manages to overpower Shane, the physically strongest person in the group at that time, when in a state of anger.
• In season 3 the group hardly cleared a portion of the prison with 5 people, but after Lori died Rick managed to clear out a cell block on his own.
• In this scene in season 6, Rick is just concerned about surviving the night and nothing else, but after Jessie died and Carl got shot, Rick went to take down all of the walkers there by himself. (though some people join him throughout)

Accelerated Development (Passive development of physical statistics)

• This is Rick in season 4, he just cared about farming and he didn't fight for a few months at the time of the season premiere.
• However, about three weeks and a few days (At 5x10 Rick recalls the events from the Terminus 3 weeks ago) after Rick's fight with The Governor, Rick will go on to build this muscle mass (one of the best in the show) and become the best version of him physically.
• A photo from season 4 and a photo from season 5 for comparision

Regeneration (Low)

• About a minute before his fight with The Governor he suffered a gunshot wound to the leg, and went on to fight The Governor just to come out of the fight looking like this.
• However a few days (3-4 if I counted right) after this, Rick manages to recover from all of his injuries and even escapes the Terminus.
• It would normally take at least several weeks to heal from gunshots in the modern world with the hospitals and stuff. Rick however heals from it in a few days in an apocalypse where he had no proper shelter, food or water, and medicine at that time.

Change In The Scaling Chain​

You can find the old one here, with that being said;

• Shane being above Rick and Daryl is not consistent, the chain should look like the one below this.
• Beta > Negan >= Rick Grimes = Daryl Dixon >= The Governor = Shane Walsh > Abraham Ford = Paul Rovia = Glenn Rhee = Michonne Grimes >>> Carl Grimes

Votes​

Those who agree: Shiraito983, Mr. Bambu (With the scaling chain, rage power), DarkDragonMedeus (Same as Bambu), E6pire
Those who disagree: Mr. Bambu (With the resistance to disease, AD, regeneration), DarkDragonMedeus (Same as Bambu)
Those who are neutral:

 

[Shiraito983]

Agree.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Resistance to Disease Manipulation

• (Characters in the show are all infected with the Wildfire virus but none of them turn until death. Dr. Edwin Jenner told this thing to Rick privately and later on in the show Rick explained what Jenner said to him to the group)

This is just a characteristic of the disease.

Rick​

Rage Power

• I'll explain this through a few scenes;
  
  
• Season 1 Rick is arguably the weakest version of him, as we see in this clip he hardly even damaged a walker's face with a shovel, let alone kill him (which he manages to do with his bare hands in later seasons). Yet, he still manages to overpower Shane, the physically strongest person in the group at that time, when in a state of anger.
• In season 3 the group hardly cleared a portion of the prison with 5 people, but after Lori died Rick managed to clear out a cell block on his own.
• In this scene in season 6 (I didn't come there on my rewatch run yet but I remember it), Rick is just concerned about surviving the night and nothing else, but after Jessie died and Carl got shot, Rick went to take down all of the walkers there by himself. (though some people join him throughout)

Iffy. Rick more easily slips into a state of adrenaline-fueled superhuman ability, but frankly, that's also just a thing that people can do. I'm hesitant to call it an actual ability based on how the show presents it. So... neutral, ig.

Accelerated Development

• This is Rick in season 4, he just cared about farming and he didn't fight for a few months at the time of the season premiere.
• However, about three weeks and a few days after Rick's fight with The Governor, Rick will go on to build this muscle mass (one of the best in the show) and become the best version of him physically.

Rick had three seasons prior to become a crazy badass, though. Such that the Governor's men didn't think their entire force could clear the Prison, and Rick managed to do it with his much smaller force. He is touted by all of the survivors as the reason they survived that far. Disagree.

Regeneration (Low)

• About a minute before his fight with The Governor he suffered a gunshot wound to the leg, and went on to fight The Governor just to come out of the fight looking like this.
• However a few days (3-4 if I counted right) after this, Rick manages to recover from all of his injuries and even escapes the Terminus.

Another maybe. I'd be more inclined to call all of Rick's feats in this territory as pain tolerance. Dude gets ****** up often and often remains ****** up for an extended period of time but can also often function under extreme duress. Still, neutral.

Change In The Scaling Chain​

You can find the old one here, with that being said;

• Shane being above Rick and Daryl is not consistent, the chain should look like the one below this.
• Beta > Negan >= Rick Grimes = Daryl Dixon >= The Governor = Shane Walsh > Abraham Ford = Paul Rovia = Glenn Rhee = Michonne Grimes >>> Carl Grimes

wasn't it you that wanted Shane being above Rick, which I would still generally agree with? why the change of heart?

 

[MarkGoldbridge]

wasn't it you that wanted Shane being above Rick, which I would still generally agree with? why the change of heart?

Man after rewatching the show it didn't really seem like Shane is above Rick nor Daryl. Both of them would go on to gain a lot more experience in the apocalypse and fight bigger threats as the show goes on.

I'm guessing apart from this you are neutral on the other stuff.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I think he was above them in the seasons he appeared in, but yeah, you could be right there. Rick and Shane had a ton of time to develop in the void after Shane.

I'll accept the scaling, then.

 

[MarkGoldbridge]

Another maybe. I'd be more inclined to call all of Rick's feats in this territory as pain tolerance. Dude gets ****** up often and often remains ****** up for an extended period of time but can also often function under extreme duress. Still, neutral.

It would normally take at least several weeks to recover from gunshots even in the modern world, Rick is completely fine a few days in the apocalypse where he didn't have proper shelter, food, water and medicine at the time.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with Bambu

 

[E6pire]

Agree with what the op said, but I think the governor should be scaled above rick and negan

 

[Hellbeast]

Wait why would Governor uscale

 

[E6pire]

Wait why would Governor uscale

Obviously, when he was fighting rick, he literally beat him to death without difficulty and put him in a coma. While negan had to fight rick, he used lucille at some points, so the governor has to rise above the two of them.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

How can he literally beat Rick to death when Rick is still alive.

 

[E6pire]

How can he literally beat Rick to death when Rick is still alive.

If Michonne hadn't arrived, he was about to strangle her to death, and Rick had fallen into a coma after the fight

 

[Mr. Bambu]

If Michonne hadn't arrived, he was about to strangle her to death, and Rick had fallen into a coma after the fight

Just

link me the fight or tell me the episode, I don't recall any straight fights going like that but I'm willing to review.

 

[E6pire]

Just

link me the fight or tell me the episode, I don't recall any straight fights going like that but I'm willing to review.

Of course
All moments of the fight without scenes in between.

 

[MarkGoldbridge]

Agree with what the op said, but I think the governor should be scaled above rick and negan

Like I said in the OP, Rick's physicality changes a lot after the fight. And there was a few disadvantages for Rick;

• He just saw his mentor figure die and couldn't do anything about it.
• His dominant hand was injured, because of this small fight.
• He was shot in his leg. (The Governor getting shot isn't clear so it might be a graze rather than a gunshot wound)
• And actually season 3 Rick would have done a better job fighting The Governor because season 4 Rick was just a farmer for a few months while season 3 Rick was a survivor and lived outside for a few months.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Of course
All moments of the fight without scenes in between.

Oh, yeah.

My points match those of Mark's, that Rick was at a significant disadvantage, such that I wouldn't take it to be a legitimate showing.

 

[Aolphl]

I think what @E6pire said makes sense.

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

The governor was stronger than everybody

 

[Mr. Bambu]

The Governor was shown to be more comparable to Michonne in their fight (admittedly overpowering her until she stabbed him in the eye) and otherwise mostly fought people against whom he already had a significant advantage against- Rick was wounded and retired from fighting when he fought him, and Merle had been jumped by the Governor's men already before the Governor took over.

The Governor is not physically weak, which is why he's mentioned in that scaling chain at all- you'll note that most of the cast aren't because most of the cast aren't notably physically above each other or primarily rely on firearms. But he's not comparable to the median performance of Rick and Daryl.

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

The Governor was shown to be more comparable to Michonne in their fight (admittedly overpowering her until she stabbed him in the eye) and otherwise mostly fought people against whom he already had a significant advantage against- Rick was wounded and retired from fighting when he fought him, and Merle had been jumped by the Governor's men already before the Governor took over.

The Governor is not physically weak, which is why he's mentioned in that scaling chain at all- you'll note that most of the cast aren't because most of the cast aren't notably physically above each other or primarily rely on firearms. But he's not comparable to the median performance of Rick and Daryl.

I remember him taking out a bunch of walkers with his bare hands. Granted people have dismembered them with their bare hands before but he did that to all the ones in the pit. He head smashed one, punched another to death, ripped the throat out of another, and used a bone to rip through the head of another. Ive seen walkers die to stuff like that but him doing that to multiple is crazy. He's still the most impressive when it comes to unarmed combat against walkers and combat against real people. But like u said his real opponents were Injured but yea. I still think physically he's the most impressive but that's just me

 

[E6pire]

Like I said in the OP, Rick's physicality changes a lot after the fight. And there was a few disadvantages for Rick;

Rick physically has mass, but this is not the case in fictional universes, unless there is any word, the increase in mass does not cause an increase in the character's power, in fact, it is more related to the actor.

He just saw his mentor figure die and couldn't do anything about it.

In fact, this is not a reason, on the contrary, you are bloodlusted at such a moment.

He was shot in his leg. (The Governor getting shot isn't clear so it might be a graze rather than a gunshot wound)

Governor was shot, grabbed his arm and dragged him away in pain, but they both looked fine as they fought.

And actually season 3 Rick would have done a better job fighting The Governor because season 4 Rick was just a farmer for a few months while season 3 Rick was a survivor and lived outside for a few months.

Actually, it has nothing to do with it, on the contrary, as you said, if rick had gained more experience, that is, he should have done a better job in season 4, this is not the case, Rick and his friends were still fighting. Hershel said rick's hand would be fine in a week's time. The governor had been on the streets for months, and the two had no problem when they met. As I said above, rick was bloodlusted at the time.

 

[E6pire]

The Governor was shown to be more comparable to Michonne in their fight (admittedly overpowering her until she stabbed him in the eye) and otherwise mostly fought people against whom he already had a significant advantage against- Rick was wounded and retired from fighting when he fought him, and Merle had been jumped by the Governor's men already before the Governor took over.

The Governor is not physically weak, which is why he's mentioned in that scaling chain at all- you'll note that most of the cast aren't because most of the cast aren't notably physically above each other or primarily rely on firearms. But he's not comparable to the median performance of Rick and Daryl.

I agree with what you said, but the governor's performance with the walkers in the pit was really great, on the other hand, Merle was afraid of him because he knew what he was capable of, that's why he wanted to keep the daryl away from the governor. Although the governor rarely appeared in the series, I think his performance was good and I explained it above, the governor beat rick fairly, so this is my recommendation.
Beta > Governor>= Negan>= Rick Grimes= Daryl Dixon>= Shane Walsh > Abraham Ford = Paul Rovia = Glenn Rhee = Michonne Grimes >>> Carl Grimes

 

[MarkGoldbridge]

Rick physically has mass, but this is not the case in fictional universes, unless there is any word, the increase in mass does not cause an increase in the character's power, in fact, it is more related to the actor.

Yes, what you are saying is right. But, both Rick's feats and his mentality changes after the fight. As I said earlier Rick wasn't much of a fighter in S4A, only having a small fight with Tyreese. However everytime Governor is on screen, more than half of the time he is fighting.

In fact, this is not a reason, on the contrary, you are bloodlusted at such a moment.

Not everyone gets bloodlusted after death. Actually Governor was far more bloodlusted than Rick. The Governor becomes far more bloodlusted after this, this is proved by the following: him constantly wanting to attack the prison, killing his best friend out of the blue, instantly getting angry because Rick wouldn't give up the prison resulting in Hershel's death

Governor was shot, grabbed his arm and dragged him away in pain, but they both looked fine as they fought.

Again, there isn't a clear entry hole for Governor so it might just be a graze, while for Rick it's pretty clear.

Actually, it has nothing to do with it, on the contrary, as you said, if rick had gained more experience, that is, he should have done a better job in season 4, this is not the case, Rick and his friends were still fighting. Hershel said rick's hand would be fine in a week's time. The governor had been on the streets for months, and the two had no problem when they met. As I said above, rick was bloodlusted at the time.

Rick didn't gain more experience in fighting though, he was just a farmer and nothing else, he also isn't the main supply runner in the group. As I said earlier Rick in S4A hardly ever fought someone before the fight, and he didn't kill much walkers either. Being away from something for a few months makes you less skill in it. And Rick has a lot more disadvantages.

 

[MarkGoldbridge]

I agree with what you said, but the governor's performance with the walkers in the pit was really great, on the other hand, Merle was afraid of him because he knew what he was capable of, that's why he wanted to keep the daryl away from the governor. Although the governor rarely appeared in the series, I think his performance was good and I explained it above, the governor beat rick fairly, so this is my recommendation.
Beta > Governor>= Negan>= Rick Grimes= Daryl Dixon>= Shane Walsh > Abraham Ford = Paul Rovia = Glenn Rhee = Michonne Grimes >>> Carl Grimes

Another reason why this wouldn't work is the show's feats getting better and better each season, and the characters getting more experience in fighting and living in the apocalypse too. I missed this part on the last CRT so Shane was above Rick and Daryl but in reality current versions of them would probably destroy Shane.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I remember him taking out a bunch of walkers with his bare hands. Granted people have dismembered them with their bare hands before but he did that to all the ones in the pit. He head smashed one, punched another to death, ripped the throat out of another, and used a bone to rip through the head of another. Ive seen walkers die to stuff like that but him doing that to multiple is crazy. He's still the most impressive when it comes to unarmed combat against walkers and combat against real people. But like u said his real opponents were Injured but yea. I still think physically he's the most impressive but that's just me

I agree with what you said, but the governor's performance with the walkers in the pit was really great, on the other hand, Merle was afraid of him because he knew what he was capable of, that's why he wanted to keep the daryl away from the governor. Although the governor rarely appeared in the series, I think his performance was good and I explained it above, the governor beat rick fairly, so this is my recommendation.
Beta > Governor>= Negan>= Rick Grimes= Daryl Dixon>= Shane Walsh > Abraham Ford = Paul Rovia = Glenn Rhee = Michonne Grimes >>> Carl Grimes

Most of the cast who have had an enduring presence on the show have at least one feat of outlasting incredible odds against walkers. Rick has quite a few. If we were to judge solely off of that, then surely Tyreese would top any given list. So I don't agree with this notion that the Governor's is simply more special.

There are other bits of context, sure- Merle being afraid of him makes sense regardless of his physical abilities (which I believe to have been at least approximately equal to Merle, if not higher)- the Governor commanded a small army and had, at that point, made quite a few moves showing him to be a ruthless man willing to use his power of force to get what he wants. I wouldn't agree with the idea that he beat Rick fairly.

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

Most of the cast who have had an enduring presence on the show have at least one feat of outlasting incredible odds against walkers. Rick has quite a few. If we were to judge solely off of that, then surely Tyreese would top any given list. So I don't agree with this notion that the Governor's is simply more special.

There are other bits of context, sure- Merle being afraid of him makes sense regardless of his physical abilities (which I believe to have been at least approximately equal to Merle, if not higher)- the Governor commanded a small army and had, at that point, made quite a few moves showing him to be a ruthless man willing to use his power of force to get what he wants. I wouldn't agree with the idea that he beat Rick fairly.

I think he would beat him healthy unless it was season 5 Rick but that would be because Ruthlessness. N yes Tyrese is a unit

 

[CharlesZaGreat]

The Governor is probably the physically strongest character in the series, at least probably being under only Beta. Fought Michonne (While he lost the fight, Michonne was armed and won by stabbing him with a glass shard. Michonne was still above hurt him with a few physical blows though), he tore Merle to shreds in their fight, nearly beat Rick to death despite the latter getting a jump on him (Both of them had been shot, Rick in the leg and the Governor in the arm), was one of the few early season characters to kill a walker (multiple at that) with his bare hands.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Literally all three of those were addressed.

 

[MarkGoldbridge]

Literally all three of those were addressed.

Hey Bambu, I have to do what the staff says right? So both Medeus and you being natural on these things here doesn't help. Would you mind giving me a solid yes or no on these things because I don't think other staff is interested in this verse?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

only if you start saying Bambu instead of Mambu

 

[MarkGoldbridge]

only if you start saying Bambu instead of Mambu

Shit, didn't notice.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Gonna disagree on Accelerated Development and Regeneration and agree on Rage Power. If you earnestly can't get another staff member, we do have a rule stating that truly non-controversial CRTs can be handled by just one.

 

[Cropfist]

I remember an official statement saying Michonne is the strongest character, but that might have been the comic (where she got stomped by Jesus...)

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I could believe that with her sword, but she's been beaten physically without it too much for that statement to hold weight, I think.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

OP asked for closure