• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

The Walking Dead TV Show massive revisions (GRACE)

Status
Not open for further replies.
MarkGoldbridge

MarkGoldbridge

323
176

Scaling Chain​

Beta > Negan >= Shane >= Rick = Daryl >= Governor > Abraham = Jesus = Glenn
Everyone down to The Governor downscales from Beta's fall, with Rick's explosion feat being "possibly much higher" justification.

AP Upgrade to 9-B​

Negan crushes Simon's neck, which would be at this level.

Beta survives a large fall. (Accepted Calc 22KJ)
Characters like Rick and Governor have killed walkers with bare hands.
Daryl is constantly seen falling off from great heights. And there is several characters that traded blows with him.

There is a lot of characters that traded blows with Rick, who has 9-B durability (Accepted Calc 270 KJ);

Rick's LS upgrade​

Rick can wrestle with Negan, The Governor, Shane and Daryl, considering they are all above athletic human, it doesn't make sense that Rick is above average.
  • So, what im offering is "Athletic Human"

Rick's change in stamina​

Athletic -> Peak Human (Mr. Mambu = The stamina feats all leave Rick on the very brink of death. I think peak human stamina more than covers it given the range of things that humans have indeed endured in real life in such a condition.)

Profile Deletions​

See here

Negan's 9-B rating with Lucille removal​

That was added because skull crushing was thought to be 9-B at the time, but its actually 9-C.

Agree: King_Dom470, ReturnofKhadz, Apex_Predator_GX, Harith0cell, CloverDragon03, JTGamer96, Mr. Mambu, DarkDragonMedeus
Disagree:
 
Last edited:
Thank you TWD profiles have been a mess for awhile

Agreed
MarkGoldbridge said:
Daryl traded blows with him the entire fight. Rick and Negan scale above Daryl, so they scale/upscale too. (They can also get possibly 9-B rating, but its a long shot)
Click to expand...
Almost feel like twd verse should just straight up be 9-B. Most characters are able to harm Rick without any weapons Rick has 9-B durability so I definitely wouldn't be opposed to that
 
King_Dom470 said:
Almost feel like twd verse should just straight up be 9-B.
Click to expand...
Beta's feat is 22 KJ. So they should scale yeah.
King_Dom470 said:
Thank you TWD profiles have been a mess for awhile
Click to expand...
Ehh, trying to do my best.
King_Dom470 said:
Most characters are able to harm Rick without any weapons Rick has 9-B durability so I definitely wouldn't be opposed to that
Click to expand...
They should at least be baseline, because Rick's durability is far higher i think.
 
Last edited:
Beta's calculated resistance can only be scaled to the entire body, not his usual hit resistance.

For example, the average man could withstand his own fall, which is approximately 500 joules, although normal punches can injure him.
 
Last edited:
Kulf_Boba said:
Beta's calculated resistance can only be scaled to the entire body, not his usual hit resistance.

For example, the average man could withstand his own fall, which is approximately 500 joules, although normal punches can injure him.
Click to expand...
What you are saying is right, but this is way higher than his own fall. Values above baseline 9-B can be accepted.
 
MarkGoldbridge said:
What you are saying is right, but this is way higher than his own fall. Values above baseline 9-B can be accepted.
Click to expand...
Of course, but the example is to say that 21.9 Kilojoules is the resistance of his entire body, to scale to that value you have to affect “his entire body”, injuring him with a blow does not count because you are affecting a very small part.
 
I mean, I don't really know much about The Walking Dead, but the accepted calcs should be fine to apply

Rick's LS should be "Peak Human, possibly higher" going by the people he scales to. And looking at his stamina feats on his profile, his stamina should 100% be Superhuman
 
Clover's suggestion regarding the LS and Stamina seems fine. OP's seems fine as well.
 
King_Dom470 said:
Also shouldn’t Glenn scale to Abraham since they were both able to hurt each other?
Click to expand...
I mean, they both attacked each other off-guard. And Abe wasn't really affected by his punch so I don't really know. Also Glenn doesn't fight a lot but he's still just 2000 joules away from 9-B though. I think that suits him. Maybe a likely higher rating would be nice.
 
The crushing the vertebrae thing isn't explicit enough to scale to that value, I think. Beta's calc is fine and should scale to the absolute strongest folks (which would include Negan, Daryl, and Rick, even if Daryl was explicitly a lot weaker than Beta, but probably not Glenn and Jesus, who tend to rely moreso on clever movements than raw brute strength).

Athletic human LS is fine, I don't see the logic in applying Peak Human with no feat.

The stamina feats all leave Rick on the very brink of death. I think peak human stamina more than covers it given the range of things that humans have indeed endured in real life in such a condition.

In summary: I agree with 9-B but Negan's throat shattering is questionable; still, Beta's fall is acceptable, and Rick's explosion serves as an 'at most'. It should not scale as low as you're arguing for here. LS upgrade seems baseless and the stamina feats aren't superhuman in the context they're presented in.

Also, Clover is a calc group member and while he can offer his thoughts (and it is good to hear them), he doesn't have the authority to accept a thread, and his comment can't be used as such. You need Thread Moderators, Administrators, or Bureaucrats.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
The crushing the vertebrae thing isn't explicit enough to scale to that value, I think. Beta's calc is fine and should scale to the absolute strongest folks (which would include Negan, Daryl, and Rick, even if Daryl was explicitly a lot weaker than Beta, but probably not Glenn and Jesus, who tend to rely moreso on clever movements than raw brute strength).

Athletic human LS is fine, I don't see the logic in applying Peak Human with no feat.

The stamina feats all leave Rick on the very brink of death. I think peak human stamina more than covers it given the range of things that humans have indeed endured in real life in such a condition.

In summary: I agree with 9-B but Negan's throat shattering is questionable; still, Beta's fall is acceptable, and Rick's explosion serves as an 'at most'. It should not scale as low as you're arguing for here. LS upgrade seems baseless and the stamina feats aren't superhuman in the context they're presented in.

Also, Clover is a calc group member and while he can offer his thoughts (and it is good to hear them), he doesn't have the authority to accept a thread, and his comment can't be used as such. You need Thread Moderators, Administrators, or Bureaucrats.
Click to expand...
What do you think Glenn and Jesus scale to? I'm not sure about Glenn but Jesus shouldn't be too far behind others.
 
Not as high as them, at least. If we were to separate it into tiers, Beta is definitely the most physically impressive, followed by Negan and then Rick, Shane, Merle, and Daryl (probably).

Jesus and Glenn are probably in the next tier down, alongside people like Michonne and Abraham who are recognized as extremely capable fighters but don't have anything as wacky as those above.

That'd be my own interpretation.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
Not as high as them, at least. If we were to separate it into tiers, Beta is definitely the most physically impressive, followed by Negan and then Rick, Shane, Merle, and Daryl (probably).
Click to expand...
IMO, I don't know much about Beta, since I don't remember his scenes well. But I think Shane should scale above all of them. Since he left the show in season 2, I'll scale him off Rick.
First up, Negan. Negan never traded blows with Rick unarmed, he only was able to hurt him with Lucille.
In Rick's fight with The Governor, both were in a pretty weakened state, as both were mentally unstable and Rick's arm was injured for beating up Tyreese, and The Governor's arm was shot right before he captured Hershel.
In Shane's fight however, Shane insults Rick by saying "I don't think you can keep them safe", after this Rick starts throwing punches at him with rage. Shane however, just counters his moves and takes Rick's gun to shoot Randall. After that, Rick attacks Shane by suprise, but he still gets overpowered by Shane. Then, Shane elbows Rick and Rick nearly passes out. Even after all of this, Shane just pushes him away and goes to kill Randall.
This shows how bloodlusted Rick was, and he still couldn't beat a holding back Shane in a fight.
 
Rick had a reason to hold back on Shane and was visibly hesitant. Beta was ******* up Daryl, who could only even remotely compare via surprise, and even then it was borderline. Negan is absolutely at least Rick's equal given the fight where Rick ambushed him on a whim, both of them were skirmishing with one another there.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
Rick had a reason to hold back on Shane and was visibly hesitant. Beta was ******* up Daryl, who could only even remotely compare via surprise, and even then it was borderline. Negan is absolutely at least Rick's equal given the fight where Rick ambushed him on a whim, both of them were skirmishing with one another there.
Click to expand...
I think we should settle on a scaling chain and apply the feats from there. My proposal;
Beta > Shane = Negan >= Rick = Governor = Daryl >>> Abraham = Jesus = Glenn
I'd like to see your proposal.
Another thing to add: Given that the lover tier's feats are not that good, i think they should be at least baseline 9-C+
 
I would slightly adjust that to this

Beta > Negan >= Shane >= Rick = Daryl >= Governor > Abraham = Jesus = Glenn

Shane fought Rick with much less experience and while Rick had plenty of reason to hold back at least some. The Governor, meanwhile, mostly relied on tools or deception or overwhelming odds rather than outright overpowering Rick (in fact, I'm not sure I'd even rate him above those last three). Daryl is honestly probably superior to Rick but I'm not sure how much of that is my own impression, since Rick himself is kind of a powerhouse.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
Beta > Negan >= Shane >= Rick = Daryl >= Governor > Abraham = Jesus = Glenn
Click to expand...
Uhh, what values would these guys scale to. I think I should write that down to the OP.
In the meantime, I'll try to get attention from another staff member. (Seems like none of them watched TWD to be honest)
 
MarkGoldbridge said:
Uhh, what values would these guys scale to. I think I should write that down to the OP.
In the meantime, I'll try to get attention from another staff member. (Seems like none of them watched TWD to be honest)
Click to expand...
Most staff members haven't consumed the media they're asked to evaluate, we simply host too wide a range of content here and have too few staff members

anywho.

Everyone down to Daryl can probably downscale from Beta's fall, with Rick's explosion feat being "possibly much higher" justification. I'd accept 9-B there. I must admit that I don't follow TWD on the wiki, do you know of feats performed by the Governor (or people lower on the totem pole)?
 
Apex_Predator_GX said:
I think Merle fought the Governor, and killed some of his soldiers. That's a feat IMO.
Click to expand...
The Walking Dead wiki has this in the trivia section for This Sorrowful Life

"Michael Rooker had some input in the way Merle was killed. Originally in the script the brief scene where Woodbury soldiers gang up on and beat Merle wasn't there. The Governor simply picked Merle up after struggling with a walker, yelled "Leave him to me!" and beat him in the warehouse. The scene where Merle gets stomped on by Woodbury guards was added by Michael Rooker's suggestion, as he believed that unless he was weakened beforehand Merle could beat the Governor in a fight. Merle's final lines and the Governor's response "No" were improvised by the actors and was not in the script."

Though we'd need a source and I'm not too sure how much an actor input matters (Though it did make it into the episode itself, so)
 
What was actually in the episode is all that really matters, yeah.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
What was actually in the episode is all that really matters, yeah.
Click to expand...
Which is Merle getting the shit beat out of him before the Governor takes him on in a one sided shit. Merle was able to hurt Rick with a punch in season 1 and also took a punch from Rick, though it knocked him on his ass

Additionally, Merle found Michonne to be quite dangerous and Michonne also nearly killed the Governor when they fought
 
They're basically all able to hurt each other, that's not really a relevant argument for scaling real-world tier people like this. I could definitely at least hurt a military-trained soldier if you let me get a good solid punch in, but he's going to wipe the floor with my ass in an actual fight. At such low tiers, the energy values are simply too close.

Michonne is dangerous because her katana is almost definitely the most impressive weapon in the verse, feat-wise. She's also in the same tier of people like Glenn and Jesus, where I would describe them as "dex fighters"; they thrive more on agility and finesse than raw brute strength.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Renitr
  • Locked
TWD Speed Upgrade
Replies
11
Views
544
Emirp sumitpo
Emirp sumitpo
Renitr
  • Locked
TWD Revision
Replies
27
Views
844
DarkDragonMedeus
DarkDragonMedeus
MarkGoldbridge
The Walking Dead TV Show Speed Upgrade
Replies
5
Views
1K
Spectra_Schiffer
Spectra_Schiffer
MarkGoldbridge
  • Locked
The Walking Dead TV Show P&A Additions + Small Change In The Scaling Chain
Replies
34
Views
2K
LephyrTheRevanchist
LephyrTheRevanchist
MarkGoldbridge
Rick Grimes really small change about stamina
Replies
1
Views
513
MarkGoldbridge
MarkGoldbridge
Back
Top