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The Use Of Momentum And Mass To Calculate Speed

Vapourrrrr

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Momentum And Mass Equation

To calculate speed normally the equation is "Distance / Time"

With this method that is a method that's taught in schools the equation is " Momentum / Mass " If you don't know how to find momentum its just "Mass * Velocity"

First of course I need to define momentum which is defined as "the quantity that is used to describe the state of motion of an object with a non-zero mass" Hence, momentum is applicable to any moving object. Including Mikey in this scenario

This CRT shouldn't be that hard to be accepted since it's literally a basic scientific equation that is used to find speed

my main reason of this CRT is for this feat where the character "Manjiro Sano" kicks "Taiju Shiba" so fast that he not only makes himself disappear but also Taiju, using the distance / time just doesn't work for this since it lowballs the feat to a point where it makes no sense

Watch This Video For More Context On Momentum

Momentum and mass is much better suited for finding speed in these scenarios, I wouldn't mind debating it though
 
If I may kindly ask; did you calculate the feat in your own, or you are trying to oppose a specific calculation? If yes, can you link it?

I am following, generally neutral due to my lack of knowledge on how fiction treats those instances.
 
Vapourrrrr said:
Why
Click to expand...
Calc Group Discussion Thread:
A board serving as a workshop for the calc group, to more easily discuss different calculations and wiki projects. Other members should only comment if they can provide information, or it is otherwise useful for a discussion.
Click to expand...

The proposals in the OP fall under this.
 
Vapourrrrr said:
Okay... I would have rather not since it wouldn't get as much attention but okay
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It would get much, much more attention.

Either way, we should call a staff member to move it and ping some CGMs like DT, Damage, and KLOL.
 
But you can only get momentum if you know how fast the thing was moving initially. All calculations of this feat are to calculate the speed (implying you don't know how fast it's moving initially), no?
 
I think the fact that it is scientifically correct is the least of our concerns on here. It’s not really relevant if the application of it for our purposes is iffy or incorrect. I would disagree with its usage for things not related to weighted clothing, or fighting under increase mass of sorts where the character is acknowledged to be slowed down.

Anything like an object getting sent flying at a given speed due to a kick of a punch is iffy. We would be implying that fiction is consistent at all with conservation of momentum or a relationship between punching/throwing power and speed. Sun this case the kick before connecting is (basically) just as fast as it is after connecting within the same feat. Seems wanky to try to apply conservation of momentum to get a result x10+ higher than anything shown.
 
SeijiSetto said:
But you can only get momentum if you know how fast the thing was moving initially. All calculations of this feat are to calculate the speed (implying you don't know how fast it's moving initially), no?
Click to expand...

On a few cases… no.

Sometimes we already know what speed something moves at from the reference to common feats page or calc page or other sources. But this is a way to get the speed of something before it’s moved by something else. One could even get the mass if all speed parameters are available.
 
Vapourrrrr said:
Its like 2 am here so I'll answer this in the morning
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Take your time, nobody's in a rush. I just don't get exactly what this CRT is proposing.

If it's to use conservation of momentum for speed feats, I would probably argue against it for the same reason that we don't calculate the KE of sword swings or such using characters' rated speed - fiction typically ignores the link between velocity and kinetic energy.

Arnoldstone18 said:
On a few cases… no.

Sometimes we already know what speed something moves at from the reference to common feats page or calc page or other sources. But this is a way to get the speed of something before it’s moved by something else.
Click to expand...
I was referring to the Taiju kick feat in particular. He says using D/T to find speed lowballs the feat, so I don't exactly see what is being proposed as an alternative way of calculating it.
 
PhantomØ4 said:
I think the fact that it is scientifically correct is the least of our concerns on here. It’s not really relevant if the application of it for our purposes is iffy or incorrect. I would disagree with its usage for things not related to weighted clothing, or fighting under increase mass of sorts where the character is acknowledged to be slowed down.

Anything like an object getting sent flying at a given speed due to a kick of a punch is iffy. We would be implying that fiction is consistent at all with conservation of momentum or a relationship between punching/throwing power and speed. Sun this case the kick before connecting is (basically) just as fast as it is after connecting within the same feat. Seems wanky to try to apply conservation of momentum to get a result x10+ higher than anything shown.
Click to expand...
Anyway, going to the topic; my stance is very much the same
 
SeijiSetto said:
I was referring to the Taiju kick feat in particular. He says using D/T to find speed lowballs the feat, so I don't exactly see what is being proposed as an alternative way of calculating it.
Click to expand...

Ohhh that was a very simplified way of saying it 😂. I don’t want this thread to be all about TR or it will never get evaluated but here’s what I think:

D/T doesn’t account for the initial speed of the kick. It only determines the final speed. The kick’s momentum had to overcome inertia to move Taiju from rest and slam him to the ground. Speed was then shared between Taiju and Mikey. So using momentum formulas we can isolate Mikey’s speed (needed to overcome Taiju’s inertia) from the total speed.

Using this formula from high school: m1V1 + m2V2 = (M1+M2)•V3

V3 is D/T of the feat
M1 is Mikey’s mass
M2 is Taiju’s mass
V2 is Taiju’s speed, which is well… 0
V1 is Mikey’s speed.

We looking for V1
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
Ohhh that was a very simplified way of saying it 😂. I don’t want this thread to be all about TR or it will never get evaluated but here’s what I think:

D/T doesn’t account for the initial speed of the kick. It only determines the final speed. The kick’s momentum had to overcome inertia to move Taiju from rest and slam him to the ground. Speed was then shared between Taiju and Mikey. So using momentum formulas we can isolate Mikey’s speed (needed to overcome Taiju’s inertia) from the total speed.

Using this formula from high school: m1V1 + m2V2 = (M1+M2)•V3

V3 is D/T of the feat
M1 is Mikey’s mass
M2 is Taiju’s mass
V2 is Taiju’s speed, which is well… 0
V1 is Mikey’s speed.

We looking for V1
Click to expand...
I see.

m2V2 is 0 since V2 is 0, and therefore can be ignored. Divide both sides of the equation by m1 to get ((m1+m2)V3)/(m1).

That IS, of course, assuming that conservation of momentum is applied. Kinda iffy on that part still due to how fiction conveniently ignores things like that.
 
SeijiSetto said:
That IS, of course, assuming that conservation of momentum is applied. Kinda iffy on that part still due to how fiction conveniently ignores things like that.
Click to expand...

I mean yeah, this typically is a problem with all calcs in general. Fiction may often ignore or **** up a lot of parameters yet we still calc them if it’s realistic enough, physics wise.
 
PhantomØ4 said:
Sun this case the kick before connecting is (basically) just as fast as it is after connecting within the same feat. Seems wanky to try to apply conservation of momentum to get a result x10+ higher than anything shown.
Click to expand...
Nah, Mikey's kick was faster after the foot connects the head, even shown in the anime, in the anime the trajectory of the kick before the foot connects the head was not shown, while the trajectory after the foot connects the head was shown, implying that Mikey knows he had to move faster than his initial speed to make the kick better (which he did).
 
PhantomØ4 said:
I think the fact that it is scientifically correct is the least of our concerns on here.
Click to expand...

It should be our utmost concern and we use them whenever appropriate.

The fictional problems you speak of are a general problem for all calculations from pixel scaling down to the nature of objects themselves. Just use it when we are realistically able to do so.
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
It should be our utmost concern and we use them whenever appropriate.

The fictional problems you speak of are a general problem for all calculations from pixel scaling down to the nature of objects themselves. Just use it when we are realistically able to do so.
Click to expand...
Whenever appropriate, yes and my concerns are entirely on when it is appropriate— the wiki clearly doesn’t just dismiss “fictional problems” for calculations, if not we wouldn’t have several guidelines regarding several different calculation practices such as with swinging a sword and KE.
 
I
MorrisHatesYou said:
Nah, Mikey's kick was faster after the foot connects the head, even shown in the anime, in the anime the trajectory of the kick before the foot connects the head was not shown, while the trajectory after the foot connects the head was shown, implying that Mikey knows he had to move faster than his initial speed to make the kick better (which he did).
Click to expand...
I don’t really care about the verse tbh, I don’t have interest in looking into it— should have kept that part off. More importantly I just think guidelines should be done regarding momentum on cases that shouldn't qualify so that people that aren’t familiar with the method start using it and it doesn’t lead to other verses having inflated results.
 
Yeah, should have made it more obvious, this is also talking about in what cases it's okay to use momentum as opposed to d / t
 
PhantomØ4 said:
Whenever appropriate, yes and my concerns are entirely on when it is appropriate— the wiki clearly doesn’t just dismiss “fictional problems” for calculations, if not we wouldn’t have several guidelines regarding several different calculation practices such as with swinging a sword and KE.
Click to expand...

If it doesn’t follow physics then physics can’t be applied.

Those guidelines help us to determine when it’s okay to use it that’s all. I only have a problem with arbitrarily picking and choosing when physics can and can’t be applied that’s all.
 
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