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The Ultra Series Discussion Thread: Unleash! The Power of Imagination!

I know that. I’m just saying Decker being 10 years after Trigger isn’t inaccurate as we learned there is a one year time skip in between episode 1 and 2 of Decker a while back. So episode 1 of Decker is 9 years after Trigger but overall Decker is 10 years after Trigger.
 
I was also thinking maybe I should just shorten Zero’s profile down a bit to like
Click to expand...

Low 2-C, higher with various forms, far higher w/ Ultimate Shining
Click to expand...

Couldn't we have always done that? Also I'm sorry for not responding as timely these days, got a monster headache and it'll need a Defense Team to fix this one.

Decker probably is the first time there's an actual time skip to signify a proper passage of time from trainee to full on member for a team since Ace, who basically punched me with randomly dropping the fact it's been about 3 months was it since Hokuto became a member and that was like within the first 20 episodes.
 
You mean shortening the stuff for Zero right? Yeah we probably should’ve done that from the start.

Edit: Ahh I see headache yeah those are annoying. You should probably go get some rest. No need to force yourself to reply.

Yup most series don’t even mention how much time has passed from trainer to full on member or from beginning of series to end of series and all that other stuff.
 
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Married. It's the only way they can make amends for the failed establishment of relationships that happened, or rather didn't, during Trigger. They could be Horii's analogue.

Seriously though, that is extremely cool, hope this allows them time to get further and proper development. Considering it's Masayoshi on helm and Toshizo on the script, I can be confident.
 

【昨日交接会追加信息：结名、彰人与特利迦在同一集出场】【奥特曼吧】_百度贴吧

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Yuna, Akito, and Kengo/Trigger will reappear together in Ultraman Decker

Akito and Yuna from 10 years later will appear in the same episode that Decker fights together with Trigger. Runa says you'll see a Yuna who is like an adult and hopes everyone will kindly protect her. Shunya says to look forward to Akito who is now full of maturity like Ignis.
 
Also I finally got to bumping the CRTs and updating them a bit as well as calling a few staffs. Hope they respond to it soon.
 
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Welp I guess I'll probably be updating the profiles soon. Beryudora and King's stuff have all been accepted by two staff so they are good to go. The 2-C upgrade has also been accepted by two staff but I want one more staff to okay it before I go ahead as its a tier 2 upgrade.

Also finally got to updating the scaling blog
vsbattles.fandom.com

Ultra Series Multipliers and Scaling

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
Oh yeah, that was an unexpectedly fast development after basically some good period of quiet.

And once again, these guys are way out of anyone's ballpark thanks to that ceiling. They've really been smooshed between total stomp or on that receiving end. Ah well.
 
Yup. Hope Ultima or Elizhaa respond soon. I’m trying to update the profiles by tonight.

I think once the upgrade goes through I’m gonna go make a few matches. The first that comes to mind is Tartarus vs Jiren now that their AP is in the thousands of times baseline. Since both Tartarus and Jiren likes to back we can actually have a evenly matched battle between them without it being a stomp for either side. Plus Jiren’s full power is above characters that are 1/2 baseline 2-C while Tartarus’ full power is like casually baseline 2-C since he performed two baseline 2-C feats back to back so even their full power are rather close in AP.
 
Jiren's Base state is actually accepted at around thousands of times baseline? That's news to me, and when you put things like that, they really do seem similar.

Okay, I might need a slap for this, but 2 casual 2-C feats for Tartarus?
 
Well not thousands of times baseline but he's unquantifiably above whatever actual value he scales to since you know he literally scales above Third UIS Goku who is like far stronger than 2nd UIS Goku who should honestly be 50x 1st UIS Goku at minimum. Actually now that I think about it did we ever get confirmation from a staff if UIS works with the boost? But that's not the point Tartarus holds back so a match between them is actually possible.

In first UCL storyline clip we saw two universes being erased in the background followed by two more universes in front of the screen. We currently assume it was Full Power Tartarus that did this so yeah two baseline 2-C feats back to back. Though if I'm being honest it might very well be Base Tartarus that did this but its safer to assume its Full Power Tartarus.
 
Ah, just like Tartar Sauce, Geeren pretty much outclasses everyone in pure AP that he's unquantifiable.

Ah, so the connected bubbles. Yeah, pretty casual stuff; good enough for me.
 
Welp it doesn’t seem like either of them is gonna respond today. So I guess I might just go ahead and add Beryudora’s stuff first. Probably gonna add the abilities in the same format as Final Form Greeza.

Also it seems like @Omazio2019 found another 2-B multiverse statement. So that’s like what three 2-B statements and one 2-A statement right? You guys think that’s enough evidence for the CRT to make the multiverse at least 2-B likely 2-A?
 
Alright, might as well.

Damn, already another one? And yeah, countless it does say, though the scan itself looks interesting so might wanna get that translated? And I mean, considering all our infos have come from official supplementary materials, it's always been enough in my opinion.
 
This was what he posted on discord I assume he used DeepL Translate for it

無限に拡大するメビウス世界
拡大を続ける「ウルトラマンメビウス」の世界―オンエア中はもちろん、終了後にも後日談としての外伝シリーズが「超銀河大戦 (2007年)、「アーマード・ダークネス」(2008年)と立て続けに生み出され、同一の設定を下敷きにしたパラレルな物語が複数のメディアで同時進行されるなど、その拡がりはとどまるところを知らない。ここでは、最新作である「アーマードダークネス」までに様々なメディアで発表されてきたメビウスサーガの全てを一望してみよう。公式には映像作品が“正史”とされているが、映画最新作や「大怪獣バトル」に見られるように、ウルトラ世界はパラレルワールドが無数に連なる多重世界であるようだ。ならば、時空を超えて並立するこれらの物語たちも、別の世界に実在 するもうひとつの“現実”なのかもしれない。そしてこれは、メビウスが描き出す「無限大」の可能性に満ちた宇宙の、ほんの一部なのかもしれない....
(The Infinitely Expanding World of Mebius
The ever-expanding world of "Ultraman Mebius" continues to expand, not only during its on-air run, but also after the series ended, with a series of post-episodes, "Super Galaxy Taisen" (2007) and "Armored Darkness" (2008), and parallel stories based on the same setting are being simultaneously told in multiple media. The expansion of the series knows no bounds, with parallel stories based on the same setting being simultaneously told in multiple media. Here we will take a look at the Mobius Saga as it has been presented in various media up to the latest work, "Armored Darkness". Officially, the video works are considered the "official history," but as seen in the latest movie and "Daikaiju Battle," it seems that the Ultra world is a multiverse with countless parallel worlds. If so, then these stories that stand side by side across space-time may be another "reality" that exists in another world. And this is the universe full of "infinite" possibilities that Mebius depicts, may be just a small part of it ....)

Its basically talking about how some stories are considered official history aka canon while others aren’t but could very well be another reality that is one of the infinite possibilities of this world. Also they mention that the multiverse has countless parallel worlds here in this Ultraman Mebius databook. But in the Ultraman Saga databook they said infinite parallel worlds. So yeah I think it’s safer to make it at least 2-B, likely 2-A rather than just straight up 2-A.
 
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It's pretty much what I expected, interesting but not much to add to the overall context.

In any case, I agree with 2-B, likely 2-A still due to there being more statements of countless than infinite. Plus, Saga suddenly using infinite seems a bit out of left field since it didn't touch intensively into the cosmology for it to suddenly change the mechanics.
 
Yeah it’s pretty much the same as that other infinite possibilities statement I brought up a few months ago which talked about how Heisei Ultraseven is a parallel world that is it’s own separate canon from the main canon.

Alright I guess I’ll start writing up the Showa downgrade/multiverse upgrade CRT draft now.
 
Huh Elizhaa replied to the 2-C revision and okayed everything except for the Forcefield stuff which I forgot I deleted the link of due to the video getting copyrighted. So yeah time to add all the CRT changes now I guess. But anyways here's the draft of the next CRT I made

Showa Ultra Downgrade/Multiverse Upgrade

Showa Downgrade

So first to start it off I was thinking we should remove Jack scaling to Zetton which caused everybody in the Showa Era to scale to 4-B Ultraman Ace onwards. Reasons being Jack most likely got an Empowerment boost right before his battle with Zetton II. Right before the battle Hideki Go (Jack) was thinking of going into the battle against Zetton as if it were a suicide mission with the fate of the Earth at stake. Ultras are shown to be able to get a humongous boost in power when they go into battle in a specific state of mind such as wanting to protect others or the planet.

In the battle against Black King its shown that not even Jack's Ultra Bracelet attacks which are far more powerful than his normal beam can scratch it. But in his rematch after gaining an empowerment boost due to Ultraman and Seven's friendship he just straight up defeated Black King in physical combat and chopped off its head. And it is mentioned in the ODF databook that Black King is hundreds of times (At least 200x) more powerful than Red King who is on par with Ultraman and Jack. Plus this is a statement from the databooks.

According to one saying in the battle against the saucer beasts due to the loss of many people, Leo's sadness, hate, anger, and all kinds of other emotions allowed his beam to become tens of thousands of times stronger then normal. It is been said that it has power that is comparable to the Cosmo Miracle Ray and the Space Q. So Ultras' empowerment boost are shown to be able amp their power by not just hundreds of times but also tens of thousands of times depending on their emotions.

Not to mention Ultraman who had lost to a weaker Zetton I in the past also didn't think Jack could win and told Jack to not fight Zetton II. So rather than assuming that by the end of the series Jack somehow grew thousands of times stronger to defeat Zetton. I think it is better to assume that Jack defeated Zetton with an empowerment boost that Ultras are shown use multiple times throughout the series. So my proposal is early Showa characters get downgraded from 4-B to High 4-C. Though by multipliers and scaling a few characters would still reach just above baseline 4-B by the end of the Showa Era. Like scaling wise

Astra >= Leo > Taro 20x> Ace > Seven =< Jack w/ Ultra Bracelet >> Bemstar = SN1054 Supernova (1 Foe)

So Taro is much stronger than 20 Foe while 4-B starts at 22.77 Foe. That's a 1.1385x right there. So BoS Leo could arguably be baseline 4-B due to being stronger than Taro who is far stronger than 20 Foe. Though I think a staff said there was a rule somewhere that said you can't upscale from a multiplied value or something so I'm not sure if Leo can be 4-B. I guess we should call a staff and ask about this. Though End of Showa Ultra Brothers would still be 4-B due to them scaling to 80 who is 9x stronger than Taro.

Multiverse Upgrade

So currently we have the Ultra Series Multiverse as having Countless x Countless universes. But Omazio2019 brought up this databook statement from the Ultraman Saga Super Complete Works which states that there are infinite parallel universes.

(Ultra brothers watching over Zero's success
In the land of M78 Nebula, the Ultra brothers are watching Ultraman Zero, who has left for another universe, "Another Space." The Ultra brothers were worried that a terrifying plot was underway somewhere in the infinite parallel universes, knowing that a mysterious spaceship was carrying monsters away from the monster graveyard. And I believed that Ultraman Zero would overthrow that scheme.)

And it was also brought up on discord that this question and statement from Origin Saga exists. Gai's question was how many universe are there and Asuka's answer is there are as many universes as there are possibilities. And in the Ultra Series it has been repeatedly stated that there are infinite possibilities.

(The era of Ultra series The world depicted in the Showa Ultra series and "Ultraman Mebius" has shown a connection to the "Mega Monster Battle" world. Of course, "Ultraseven" is also branched and connected to the Heisei Cebu King series, so be aware that this timeline is only one of the infinite "Future of possibilities".)

(The Infinitely Expanding World of Mebius The ever-expanding world of "Ultraman Mebius" continues to expand, not only during its on-air run, but also after the series ended, with a series of post-episodes, "Super Galaxy Taisen" (2007) and "Armored Darkness" (2008), and parallel stories based on the same setting are being simultaneously told in multiple media. The expansion of the series knows no bounds, with parallel stories based on the same setting being simultaneously told in multiple media. Here we will take a look at the Mebius Saga as it has been presented in various media up to the latest work, "Armored Darkness". Officially, the video works are considered the "official history," but as seen in the latest movie and "Mega Monster Battle," it seems that the Ultra world is a multiverse with countless parallel worlds. If so, then these stories that stand side by side across space-time may be another "reality" that exists in another world. And this is the universe full of "infinite" possibilities that Mebius depicts, may be just a small part of it ....)

However, it's been repeatedly mentioned throughout the series that the multiverse is countless rather than infinite. So we have a total of three countless statements and two infinite statements for the multiverse. Another thing supporting the 2-A multiverse right now is the fact that Queen Izana states that there are still many uncharted areas of the multiverse even now. So to the characters they only know the multiverse is at least 2-B in size which doesn’t contradict the statement about the multiverse being 2-A. And here's another thing, as we brought up earlier in the Ultraman Saga Super Complete Works they mentioned how there were infinite 無限 (Mugen) parallel universes but in the actual movie itself during this scene they said there were countless 無数 (Musuu) parallel universes.

Which means from the looks of it countless may or may not be considered infinite in the Ultra Series. So my proposal now would be rather than throwing away 2-B or ignoring the 2-A statements we should just use both. So the Ultra Series Multiverse should be upgraded to At least 2-B, likely 2-A due to these statements. Pokemon already does something similar with their cosmology so I guess we can follow suit due to there being statements and arguments for both 2-B and 2-A.

Currently the only thing that scales to the full multiverse cosmology would be the Eternity Core which is stated to be able to destroy all universes should it go out of control.
 
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Omazio2019 said:
Hey Peter can you give me the link to previous argument about infinite "future possibilities"?
Click to expand...
Didn't you already post the page yourself on the discord? Or are you perhaps referring to the talk we've had before in the past about the possibilities? If it's the latter than sorry I don't remember which page we had that talk in.
 
Do you consider bring it back to next revision thread since ultraman multiverse is a what if multiverse with possibilities theories?
 
I already added it onto the draft. I still think its safer to make them at least 2-B, likely 2-A as the Ultraman Saga infinite parallel universe statement is like a suddenly out of no where its infinite parallel universes despite previous series saying there are countless parallel universes. And I wouldn't exactly call Asuka an expert in the series so I'm not exactly sure if his answer about the universes being as many as the possibilities hold too much credibility compared to like Queen Izana's words. But anyways I'll go edit Tartarus' profile now.
 
Anyways I have finished updating Tartarus' profile. Took a bit longer than I expected to finish so I think I'll work on the other profiles tomorrow. Anybody up for a match with him against Anime Jiren?
 
As usual, I think the draft looks good already, I'm not sure what else to add because I keep forgetting the scene from ORIGIN SAGA's finale so imagine how much more cosmology statement I may have forgotten.

It'll probably attract some rabid supporters to the match, but we'll never know until we actually do it so why not?
 


Ok guys i've checked Ultraman Saga 2012 and it somehow support that my theory was right. Ultraverse use 無数(countless) to refer 無限 (infinite). If my ears hear it correctly, at 10:34 he said 無数にある平行宇宙(Countless parallel universes)
 
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Yeah Seven did say countless parallel worlds while the databook said infinite parallel worlds. So either the databook messed up and wrote the wrong words or your theory is in fact correct and countless = infinite in the Ultra Series. I'll add that onto the CRT draft tomorrow I guess. Gonna go sleep now.
 
Oh right, they did say "musuu" in Saga, that's why the databook confused me so much as to why they used "mugen" there all of a sudden. Basically same case as jigen = jikuu.
 
Finally got to updating all the profiles. Tartarus, King, Zero, Beryudora, and Leo have all been updated

Gonna go update the multiverse CRT now. Also are there any abilities that we missed for the Showa Ultras or Ultra Physiology? I was thinking of throwing them all in this one CRT as well. Like I know the physiology page is missing Power Bestowal.

Edit: Also just realized that if Countless really does mean Infinite in the Ultra Series than that means the 2-A end of the Ultra Series Multiverse is Infinite*Infinite in size. That's like 2nd place in the top 5 highest AP thread for 2-A.
 
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The physiology as a whole should get Acrobatics because we somehow missed that and for obvious reasons. Some Ultras, or maybe at least the M78 folks should get Surface Scaling due to Man, Zoffy, Seven and Belial's fight. And the space-time stuff as well. That's about all I remember.

But you'z sed the standurds don't makez it so anymore. But seriously though, is it actually still acceptable for the same mechanics that puts 2-B that high to be applied on a 2-A level?
 
I’ll add them onto the CRT. Do you remember which show or movie I can find those examples for Acrobatics? For the space-time stuff I’ll just use Z, Nexus, and the UCL storyline as an example.

Oh right forgot about the 2-A standard changes making things weird now. I guess we could just ask some staff about it once I post the thread.
 
Mebius and the Ultra Brothers movie has an easy showing of 4 of them casually cartwheeling and flipping around. Zero movies for instances of high-speed flight combat which shows hypermobility. If not the battles in MMB the movie which has wuxia physics. Geed episode 19 has him use Acro Smasher to casually step on Mecha Gomora's energy saws.

Probably better to ask first, yeah.

Also, here's a funny thought. If we take Tregear's words literally, Grimdo may very well have Transduality, at the very least Type 1.
 
Peter1129 said:
Huh Elizhaa replied to the 2-C revision and okayed everything except for the Forcefield stuff which I forgot I deleted the link of due to the video getting copyrighted. So yeah time to add all the CRT changes now I guess. But anyways here's the draft of the next CRT I made

Showa Ultra Downgrade/Multiverse Upgrade + Some More Ability Addition

Showa Downgrade

So first to start it off I was thinking we should remove Jack scaling to Zetton which caused everybody in the Showa Era to scale to 4-B Ultraman Ace onwards. Reasons being Jack most likely got an Empowerment boost right before his battle with Zetton II. Right before the battle Hideki Go (Jack) was thinking of going into the battle against Zetton as if it were a suicide mission with the fate of the Earth at stake. Ultras are shown to be able to get a humongous boost in power when they go into battle in a specific state of mind such as wanting to protect others or the planet.

In the battle against Black King its shown that not even Jack's Ultra Bracelet attacks which are far more powerful than his normal beam can scratch it. But in his rematch after gaining an empowerment boost due to Ultraman and Seven's friendship he just straight up defeated Black King in physical combat and chopped off its head. And it is mentioned in the ODF databook that Black King is hundreds of times (At least 200x) more powerful than Red King who is on par with Ultraman and Jack. So Ultras' empowerment boost are shown to be able amp their power by hundreds of times.

Not to mention Ultraman who had lost to a weaker Zetton I in the past also didn't think Jack could win and told Jack to not fight Zetton II. So rather than assuming that by the end of the series Jack somehow grew thousands of times stronger to defeat Zetton. I think it is better to assume that Jack defeated Zetton with an empowerment boost that Ultras are shown use multiple times throughout the series. So my proposal is early Showa characters get downgraded from 4-B to High 4-C. Though by multipliers and scaling a few characters would still reach just above baseline 4-B by the end of the Showa Era. Like scaling wise

Astra >= Leo > Taro 20x> Ace > Seven =< Jack w/ Ultra Bracelet >> Bemstar = SN1054 Supernova (1 Foe)

So Taro is much stronger than 20 Foe while 4-B starts at 22.77 Foe. That's a 1.1385x right there. So BoS Leo could arguably be baseline 4-B due to being stronger than Taro who is far stronger than 20 Foe. And due to the Saucer Beasts as a whole being stated to be the strongest monster of Showa at the time of Ultraman Leo. EoS Leo and 80 would still scale to Zetton.

Multiverse Upgrade

So currently we have the Ultra Series Multiverse as having Countless x Countless universes. But Omazio2019 brought up this databook statement from the Ultraman Saga Super Complete Works which states that there are infinite parallel universes.

(Ultra brothers watching over Zero's success
In the land of M78 Nebula, the Ultra brothers are watching Ultraman Zero, who has left for another universe, "Another Space." The Ultra brothers were worried that a terrifying plot was underway somewhere in the infinite parallel universes, knowing that a mysterious spaceship was carrying monsters away from the monster graveyard. And I believed that Ultraman Zero would overthrow that scheme.)

And it was also brought up on discord that this question and statement from Origin Saga exists. Gai's question was how many universe are there and Asuka's answer is there are as many universes as there are possibilities. And in the Ultra Series it has been repeatedly stated that there are infinite possibilities.

(The era of Ultra series The world depicted in the Showa Ultra series and "Ultraman Mebius" has shown a connection to the "Mega Monster Battle" world. Of course, "Ultraseven" is also branched and connected to the Heisei Cebu King series, so be aware that this timeline is only one of the infinite "Future of possibilities".)

(The Infinitely Expanding World of Mebius The ever-expanding world of "Ultraman Mebius" continues to expand, not only during its on-air run, but also after the series ended, with a series of post-episodes, "Super Galaxy Taisen" (2007) and "Armored Darkness" (2008), and parallel stories based on the same setting are being simultaneously told in multiple media. The expansion of the series knows no bounds, with parallel stories based on the same setting being simultaneously told in multiple media. Here we will take a look at the Mebius Saga as it has been presented in various media up to the latest work, "Armored Darkness". Officially, the video works are considered the "official history," but as seen in the latest movie and "Mega Monster Battle," it seems that the Ultra world is a multiverse with countless parallel worlds. If so, then these stories that stand side by side across space-time may be another "reality" that exists in another world. And this is the universe full of "infinite" possibilities that Mebius depicts, may be just a small part of it ....)

However, it's been repeatedly mentioned throughout the series that the multiverse is countless rather than infinite. So we have a total of three countless statements and two infinite statements for the multiverse. Another thing supporting the 2-A multiverse right now is the fact that Queen Izana states that there are still many uncharted areas of the multiverse even now. So to the characters they only know the multiverse is at least 2-B in size which doesn’t contradict the statement about the multiverse being 2-A. And here's another thing, as we brought up earlier in the Ultraman Saga Super Complete Works they mentioned how there were infinite 無限 (Mugen) parallel universes but in the actual movie itself during this scene they said there were countless 無数 (Musuu) parallel universes.

Which means from the looks of it countless may or may not be considered infinite in the Ultra Series. So my proposal now would be rather than throwing away 2-B or ignoring the 2-A statements we should just use both. So the Ultra Series Multiverse should be upgraded to At least 2-B, likely 2-A due to these statements. Pokemon already does something similar with their cosmology so I guess we can follow suit due to there being statements and arguments for both 2-B and 2-A.

Currently the only thing that scales to the full multiverse cosmology would be the Eternity Core which is stated to be able to destroy all universes should it go out of control.

Ability Addition

So adding some more abilities we missed to the Ultra Physiology page
Click to expand...
I have updated the draft. What do you guys think?

Is the Grimdo stuff because of Tregear's talk about light and darkness and the chaos or whatever?
 
Aye, that looks good still. Good call with including the usage of words from the original language because honestly I'd probably have forgotten that.

Well that much was pretty clear anyway, but yeah, it is. And considering things, it's yet again one of those not too farfetched stuff that can be applied and not break continuity in any canon.
 
There’s no other ability that we missed right? I feel like we missed something that we talked about in one of the previous pages though.

Yeah considering how the lore of the series is it’s not really that crazy to see Transduality as one of the abilities.
 
Taking a quick look, the only thing of importance so far is probably the splitting of Ultra Psychokinesis.
 
Oh yeah that. You think we should keep the Ultra Physiology stuff away from this CRT and keep it with the Ultra Psychokinesis split? Like the split will probably be one of the somewhat bigger revisions so it might be best to keep the physiology stuff with it.
 
Actually yeah, probably should've factored in this one the first place. Guess the cosmology CRT will hafta stand on its own then.
 
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