The Ultra Series Discussion Thread: Unleash! The Power of Imagination!

[Kamenriderblaze]

Oh right also Zero's strongest form got retconned. Shining is now his strongest form once again not Beyond.

But didn't in voice drama zero said each form have it purpuse and he have 3 strongest form
I mean he said in voice drama that all have their own characteristics and cannot be said to be the strongest.

 

[Peter1129]

I know they said that but it matter if the voice drama say they are all the strongest. We clearly see that Beyond has better performances than Ultimate and also used to have a statement of being Zero’s strongest form. And the latest magazine also straight up retconned the old statement about Beyond being Zero’s strongest form and called Shining Zero the strongest form. So right now Zero’s forms pretty much goes

Shining > Beyond > Ultimate > Strong-Corona/Luna-Miracle > Base

 

[Kamenriderblaze]

I think ultraman z should have de fusion ability form that belial looking sword

 

[Peter1129]

By the way I seem to have found the statements about Greeza nullifying all attacks as well as Xlugger’s true ability being wish granting. And yeah Mr.Cutlery you were right. The chinese translations of the bottom image stated that the reason the monsters Greeza absorbed didn’t get erased was because it was in a half existent and half nonexistent state due to eating the first Xlugger when it absorbed them. After consuming the third and final Xlugger Greeza completely lost its nonexistent physiology which prevented it from resurrecting via regeneration like it did before when it was only partially materialized.

 

[Peter1129]

So uhh I accidentally stumbled upon the information that Delacion is actually stated in the databook to be the creator of the M78 Universe.

Also there was an interview where one of the director said they originally made Ultraman King to be the apex of the Ultra Series and said that if you want to find somebody higher than him it is really hard and could only be Ultraman Noa. So Noa being at least comparable to King is apparently a thing.

Also found a thread listing all the planet Lvl and above feats and statements within the Ultra Series. Do you guys want to have a look?

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

M-must be an older databook...

But sure, post it over I suppose.

 

[Peter1129]

No it’s not an old databook. It’s a new one from 2018. Ultraman Geed where King performed the universe healing feat was in 2017. I only coincidently stumbled upon this databook information while looking for more information on Delacion since according to the official Tsuburaya Twitter‘s apparently Delacion is the one that sent Ultraman Justice to stop Absolute Tartarus in Ultra Galaxy Fight 2.

Hold on give me a moment to find the correct thread.

 

[Peter1129]

Alright found the two threads. Just a heads up the threads seem to include manga and game stuff as well. Although looking at the thread now it seems like there are also a few hyperbolic statements. Also the second thread is actually more of a Ultraman feats thread in general.

【图片也许无关】奥系列里的爆星设定具体是怎么样的？_奥特曼吧_百度贴吧

【图片也许无关】奥系..看到这个后突然想到的问题有哪些具体的设定图？非挂人，找到了也不要过去仔细一想，每次发个帖都是在大家聊XX的时候发些别的东西……大概只有我这么奇怪吧

tieba.baidu.com

【图片】奥特曼表现设定【全方位战力对比吧】_百度贴吧

奥特曼表现设定..一兆度火球毁灭平行世界说一下奥特曼中平行世界包括整个宇宙,比如奥特曼传奇, 戴拿原来的宇宙是良在的地球 然后戴拿去平行世界拯救了一个被海帕杰顿吃干净的地球,还有赛文ov也是平行世界并且也包括整个宇宙,

tieba.baidu.com

 

[Peter1129]

So yeah there seems to be a crap ton of planet lvl stuff. But anyways the notable above planet lvl stuff from those threads are.

The universe is infinite in size. Though this seems to just be an offhand databook statement so I’m not sure how reliable it is.

Vacuumon ate the Big Dipper constellation in ten days.

Ultraman using his telekinesis to move constellations.

Zetton’s one trillion degree fireball can destroy the solar system.

EX Zetton can fire off one hundred trillion degree fireballs. Not sure if this means it’s 100x stronger than normal Zetton.

Antimatter explosion destroying a solar system in Ultraman Gaia.

Dark Zagi survived a supernova explosion.

Alien Empera destroyed many star systems.

Leugocyte was going to destroy the Galaxy.

Grand King possesses Juda’s powers which could distort the universe. Also I heard somewhere that it’s stated that Grand King is stronger than Juda.

Alien Bat (The one from Ultraman Saga) destroyed a universe.

Aprasar apparently has a universe within its body. Size is unknown but if it was an actual universe it’s a huge outlier since this guys is just a fodder.

Darklops Zero from the side story destroying a universe using a suicide move.

Ultraman King has the power of a universe.

Noa is even more mysterious than King. Has power beyond spacetime. Also directly compared to King and was stated to be above him.

Delacion is the creator of the M78 universe.

Tregear basically said however many universes there are is however many me there are. Even if I’m destroyed the me from another universe will revive. So Tregear seems to have some pretty good immortality here.

 

[Peter1129]

@Mr.Cutlery So do you think these are usable for the revisions?

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Can you link the offhand databook? I can give it a look or ask around about it in Discord.

Also, let's leave this out for now, we'll complete the revision first. But still, these are translated from a relatively recent databook, right? I can't believe this, thank you for digging all these up.

Another thing, I'm pretty sure the nicknames given to the continuities are supposed to imply the entire continuum, right? Because it's likely we can use that to ensure some solid quantifications.

 

[Peter1129]

The offhand statement was from one of the scans in the tieba thread. The chinese translation of that line basically just said compared to the infinite sized universe, humans are very tiny existences.

Not all of them are from recent databooks. Some of them like Vacuumon and Zetton were from Ultraman and Ultraman Jack’s databook from a long time ago. Delacion on the other hand is from one of the newer databook.

Can you explain this more clearly? Cause I’m not really sure about what you are talking here about nicknames.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Multiverse

The Multiverse (多次元宇宙（マルチバース）, Maruchibāsu) is the setting in which all of the Ultraman Series shows and series take place in. The multiverse is comprised of a near-infinite number of separate universes, or Worlds (ワールド, Wārudo), with some having native Ultras of their own in some form. The...

ultra.fandom.com

I'm not sure if the link works, but here's what I meant. From this, we can see that each of the worlds, now referred to by their continuity names such as World of Side Space, refers specifically to their own timelines or alternatively their entire space-time continuum.

 

[Peter1129]

I mean I think? Cause I’m pretty sure those are the names for the universes in general. Did you perhaps think it was only referring to the planets?

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Yeah, sorry for the rambling, I've just been too focused on solidifying the higher tiers. So yeah, I'll give those other feats a proper check when I have more time.

 

[Peter1129]

I personally don’t really care about the higher tier as nobody really scales to it. I’d rather have the lower tiers be fixed so more characters and monsters could scale and be used in battle in the future.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Fair enough.

 

[Peter1129]

So anyways to sum up the current list of feats.

Dozens of 5-B feats from fodders and Ultramen.

A couple of High 4-C feat from Ultraman moving constellations, Vacuumon eating the Big Dipper and Cancer constellations, and Dark Zagi tanking a supernova.

Two 4-B feat one from Zetton‘s one trillion degree fireball destroying the solar system and one from Alien Empera having destroyed several star systems.

One 3-C feat from Leugocyte destroying the Galaxy.

A 3-B feat from Juda destroying the universe overtime with distortions. And from what I read in one of the Dragon Ball Super thread destroying the universe over an unknown period of time is simply baseline 3-B. As well as Alien Bat destroying the universe over an unknown period of time.

Several 3-A/Low 2-C statements for King, Noa, and Delacion. King possessing the power of a universe. Noa being larger than a universe. Delacion creating a universe. I think there was also a universal statement somewhere for Legend as well. Though I could just be misremembering it.

Also if Absolute Tartarus really is messing with multiple timelines we might even be getting 2-C in the Ultra Series.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Just to be clear, the Juda referred to here is the Specter version, right? I mean, both are already very close to 3-A anyway so I'm not too worried about him.

And on Tartarus, looks like we'll have to see. I am confident that he'd at least be more impressive than Darkkiller.

I'm more curious about the parts with Antimatter and Empera though. What else was said beyond that?

 

[Peter1129]

Juda is talking about the original Showa Era Juda. His distortions were destroying the universe but honestly I don‘t think they ever gave a timeframe or anything. If you want more context you can watch Ultraman Story. Since that’s where the statements about Juda destroying the universe originally came from. And I saw one of the DBS thread saying that manga SSG Goku and Beerus destroying the universe overtime is simply baseline 3-B since there’s no given timeframe.

Antimatter I don’t really remember. The guy on the tieba thread posted a gif of a solar system being destroyed but I’m not sure if that was a theoretical one or something that happened in the past. The post also said that Antimatter was going to destroy the universe by turning Earth into a antimatter bomb. Antimatter came from Ultraman Gaia btw.

Here is the profile for Alien Empera. According to the translations it mentioned him destroying many star/solar systems.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Ah, if it's the original Juda then we've already got that covered.

The thing Antimatter destroyed was actually a planetoid. I put up a request before, but it was never picked up. In any case, if my assumptions were right, an explosion like that would yield High 5-A results. But who knows? And yeah, Antimatter should also be possibly 3-A.

Profile?

 

[Peter1129]

You sure?

It doesn’t look like a databook page it seems to be one of those official profile things from the websites that gets replaced when newer stuff comes out keep up with time. Some people saved a picture of it. And according to their translations that description mentioned something about Alien Empera destroying star/solar systems.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Like I said, a lot of assumptions were made when I did a mock calculation on Antimatter. If it's about the destruction, yeah, I have the episode ready for quick reference. I'm also completely fine with leaving out that Possibly 3-A rating.

Hm, is there a link to it?

 

[Peter1129]

I’m actually talking about the Juda stuff not the Antimatter stuff. They did say Antimatter would destroy the universe so possibly 3-A via prep could be a thing. You said you had the Juda thing covered already?

I don’t think there’s a link anymore. And even if there was I don’t even know what the link is. It’s kinda like how one of the official Pokemon website used to have an interview about how the PokeSpe manga was closest to what Pokemon was meant to be on its site. But than years later those interviews got taken down in favor of more recent stuff. So yeah all we have right now is that one image from the thread. And honestly I think it should be usable. And even if it isn’t we still have Zetton’s 4-B statement.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Ah, right. Yeah, Juda's rating came to be thanks to that very same feat/statement. It was discussed in one of the older threads back around 2016.

Ah, that's a shame. Well, considering the surprising consistency of stellar level feats from even Showa, I wouldn't doubt the legitimacy of the interview. And if nothing contradicts the feat, then it could be used in conjunction with the other ones mentioned.

 

[Peter1129]

Yeah that’s the thing though. It seems like standards got changed once again. Now it seems like destroying the universe overtime with no timeframe is unquantifiable and is simply 3-B. One of the more recent threads on the new forum was talking about DBS manga destroying universe overtime with no timeframe being baseline or unquantifiable 3-B. Only reason they have 3-A is because of a different statement about the god of destructions destroying the universe.

Yeah this statement about Alien Empera destroying solar systems should be legit as he easily defeated Burning Brave Mebius who is more powerful than Taro who was stated and shown to be the strongest among the six Ultra Brothers including Jack who defeated Zetton II who is stronger than the original Zetton who has a 4-B statement and was able to defeat Ultraman who is High 4-C.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Well that's troublesome. Best case scenario, it'll only affect the original Juda. Worst, it'll make even reaching 3-A hard and subsequently make upgrades beyond that level nearly impossible for non god-tiers.

Then it's decided, after this revision, we'll be revising the M78 Ultras. Well, after we get the others' inputs and see what they can add as well.

Speaking of others, it seems unfortunate but I think Saint Rider maybe unable to figure out how to get here.

 

[Peter1129]

I mean 3-A/Low 2-C for the god tiers seems to be okay to me. It goes to show how strong they are in comparison to the rest of the characters. Which makes sense since in story the likes of King and Noa are shown to be the absolute strongest in the series. Heck the interview straight up said King is made to be the apex of the series with Noa being supposedly above him.

Also I really think we should remove Infinity Mebius scaling to King. Cause any statement about an ultra being the strongest not named King or Noa is honestly bs. Cause if I remember correctly Zero had a statement about being the new strongest ultra when he first appeared and he came after Infinity Mebius so Zero > Infinity Mebius which honestly doesn’t seem plausible. But than Ultimate Zero appeared and he was given the title of strongest. Than Zero Darkness appeared and he’s stated to be stronger than Ultimate Zero. Than Shining Zero who is even stronger than Zero Darkness appeared. But in the end when Ultraman Geed came out it turns out King is still the strongest by a large margin. So yeah top tiers shouldn’t scale to god tiers.

Yeah I heard some people still have trouble moving to the new forum.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Yeah, if it means not having to cause severe clashes of tiering, then I'll make peace with any potential future downgrades.

I've always been iffy about Infinity Mebius, too. In a scan specifically detailing his appearance, there's not a single instance mentioning his power being even comparable to King. So, that's the only hard removal that I will never have any problems with.

Mebius is overrated anyway

But in any case, we should really ignore any statements saying the new guy is stronger than the previous Ultras unless there are explicit showcases.

 

[Peter1129]

Infinity Mebius should probably still be 3-B though as he is basically a fusion of Mebius and Super Taro who defeated Grand King who is 3-B for possessing Juda’s power as well as being stronger than him.

Also a bit of correction about Delacion. It seems like the databook actually said Delacion is thought to be the creator of the M78 universe, but there’s also the saying that it’s an absolute god that inherited the will of the creator. So this means Delacion is actually more of a Possibly Low 2-C rather than straight up Low 2-C.

 

[Peter1129]

Also I just realized that New Generations is when the scaling gets ridiculous. Since Grand King is stated to possess all of Juda’s power than that would mean anybody that scales to Ginga would be 3-B as he defeated Super Grand King. And at this point everybody scales to Ginga in some way.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Well the thing about Super Taro is that he technically doesn't exist during the canon timelines since U.Story's events aren't canon to that until it was brought back for real way later.

I wouldn't have minded whichever one Delacion's tiering rested on since I'm more concerned about canon Implications.

Yeah that's what kind of what I got ever since I realized that Ultra Fight Victory and onwards have unusually high level of feats that while only made relevant when it is, have never been contradicted. So yeah, 3-B has always been a justifiable tier. Though there is the possibility of Juda Specter being outright 3-A thanks to statements from Hikari and warranting King's attention.

 

[Peter1129]

Pretty sure Ultraman Srory is canon despite te continuity errors. From what I remember it’s also supposed to be the direct prequel to the Andro Melos miniseries.

Oh yeah same here. Cause seriously nobody on the Chinese fandom expected Delacion to just be revealed in the data books to possibly be the creator deity of the main universe. All the threads when this information came out was just holy shit wtf.

Not Ultra Fight Victory. Starting from Ultraman Ginga. That was where Grand King got his second ever appearance in the form of Super Grand King before getting stomped by Ginga.

You know I would’ve believed Juda Spectre being a threat big enough to King if it weren’t for the fact that Royal Mega Master Geed who only possesses a small portion of King’s power stomped Thunder Killer along with Zaigorg who is equal to Greeza whose 2nd form was stated to be even stronger than the Juda siblings fusion form Gua Spectre while being empowered by a portion of Greeza’s power. So yeah I honestly don’t think possibly 3-A for warranting King’s attention works here.

 

[Peter1129]

Oh right also in the latest special episode of Ultraman Z, Z said that it’s not that Greeza is just strong, it’s that there is nothing there for them to hit due to Greeza being the void itself. So yeah even more proof that Greeza is immune to physical and energy attacks due to being a void.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Actually, given that Andro Melos will be appearing in TAC where both Jida and Mold will appear, yeah I think Story might be made canon.

Wait, Super Grand King is said to also have Juda's power?

I was more referring to the context of UFV when I said that since it was made a plot point when it's said that King thought Juda Specter a big enough threat, it should have more significance even in comparison to events where stronger enemies show up.

Makes sense, really, since the Greeza we see is just our way of perceiving the nothingness as Gourman said.

 

[Peter1129]

Oh right I forgot Grand King was powered by Juda while Super Grand King is just a stronger version of Grand King that’s not powered by Juda. Kinda like how Ultraman Saga Hyper Zetton is stated in the newer databook to be stronger than Hyper Zetton Deathscythe which is a powered up version of normal Hyper Zetton due to merging with Alien Bat’s spaceship which could destroy a universe overtime. Yeah nevermind the crazy 3-B scaling chain starts from Ultra Fight Victory not Ultraman Ginga. Anybody stronger than Knight Victory would be 3-B. Which is still pretty much everybody.

Honestly though I’m still not really sure about giving him a possibly 3-A for something as vague as King supposedly thinking he was a big enough threat because he sent Hikari to give Victory the knight brace. Cause if I remember correctly King also sent Zero to give Ginga and Victory the fusion bracelet to fight Etelgar.

So yeah more stuff to be added into the revisions.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Yeah, basically.

There was also the statement by Hikari that ifJuda was to fully resurrect, which actually happened, it would lead to the destruction of the universe. Then during battle with Victory, Juda himself states that he will the destroy the universe. Ultimately statements, but I don't see why it would be any less believable considering context.

 

[Peter1129]

Ahh so he had a destroy the universe statement. If that’s the case than a possibly 3-A sounds much more believable for Juda Spectre.

 

[Peter1129]

Oh right also fun fact for anybody that cares. The Baraba that Z and Ace fought isn’t actually just a Baraba revived, powered up and controlled by Yapool. It’s actually a Baraba with the power of the first and last Super Monsters (I hate the name terrible monster so I’m just gonna call them super monster like what the original kanji actually means) that Ace fought in his series on top of being buffed and controlled by Yapool. The missile Baraba fired from its nose is actually Verokron’s missile and the beam it shoots from its eyes is Jumbo King’s eye beam.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Oh, that's interesting. I thought they just decided to buff up Baraba to ridiculous levels.