The Terminator feats mix up

[Alien_Dual_Blaster]

Well yea The pipe bomb thing was definitely PIS and for good reason, it was the Terminators first appearance so he was likely at his weakest he's ever been in that movie. He's definitely gotten stronger over the years, as with most characters.

Yeah and the pipe bomb was stuck inside the ribcages of their mainframe (which is the weakest spot for detonation, like if you hold a dynamite in your hand, it will explode into chunky salsa, but if you had a bomb blanket and it exploded near you, you would just be pushed back methinks).

And also that was the one feat Death Battle used to underplay the Terminator's durability in the Terminator vs Robocop episode (which I did a series of my own short debunk vids on in 2014, but my channel has now currently been terminated for over a month, sooooooo you won't be able to actually see them sadly).

 

[Alien_Dual_Blaster]

Oof. Don't quote huge walls of text.
Spoilers Below

The UAV is when they try to sneak across the border and get caught. They are held at gunpoint and the R-9 fires a missile, from a remote location, to try and kill Dani. Grace jumps in and saves her.

Oh THAT scene.

Now I can (partially) understand what you're talking about.

Yeah Grace did tank that and she did it like a boss. Would be worth a calc I suppose.

 

[Alien_Dual_Blaster]

So I did some digging into The Battle Across Time video and here's what I thought was useful:

• Arnie tanks plasma rounds
• A plasma rifle can do this. A clearer shot of the aftermath. Another feat
• The T-1000000 takes some hits from the rifle. A size comparison between the T-1000000 and the T-800

There's also the feat of the T-101 temporarily holding that giant door of Skynet long enough for John to run in.

(@7:12) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prpfSDubV3E

Although the door was kinda already closing in on Arnold despite holding the doors together with all his might.

And I think the plasma shots from the Mini-Hunters were considerably weaker than the sheer pillar-busting blast of the Plasma Rifle that he later wielded after killing that T-800 model.

Also, Arnold was a bit of an idiotic fool to shoot the T-1000000 while it was frozen in its tracks if he knew anything about its regenerative capabilities, though it might be just another call-back to T2: Judgment Day.

 

[MJF6219]

@Alien Dual Blaster

Something I forgot to add was that while the Rev-9 was getting grinded up by the turbine, it clearly looked like it was grinding off all of the Rev-9's liquid metal exterior which likely the only reason why it's endo-skeleton took as much damage as it did when the turbine exploded. With that in mind, it actually makes perfect since why Carl's arm (which was shoved just as deep into the turbine as the Rev-9 was) took seemingly zero damage from both being grinded up and the explosion, since Carl was treated as being superior to the Rev-9's Endo-skeleton.

 

[MJF6219]

@ Colonel and Dark Dragon

Is The Battle Across Time Cannon? And to be fair both of those plasma gun feats still look like there around 9-B.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@Alien Duel Blaster, could you please stop quoting long quotes, as well as posting multiple times in a row?

@MJF6219 I recall asking if we could, and this wiki does see it being canon 1.1; but Antvasima seemed against it due to being a Universal Studios attraction theater. So I don't think we could use it for scaling unfortunately. Would have been cool to have T-1000000 however, as well as the strongest and toughest Arnie.

 

[Hellbeast1]

Still adds consistency

 

[Alien_Dual_Blaster]

@Alien Dual Blaster
Something I forgot to add was that while the Rev-9 was getting grinded up by the turbine, it clearly looked like it was grinding off all of the Rev-9's liquid metal exterior which likely the only reason why it's endo-skeleton took as much damage as it did when the turbine exploded. With that in mind, it actually makes perfect since why Carl's arm (which was shoved just as deep into the turbine as the Rev-9 was) took seemingly zero damage from both being grinded up and the explosion, since Carl was treated as being superior to the Rev-9's Endo-skeleton.

Are you sure that's the correct conclusion to make for both their feats from the Turbine explosion? Carl didn't exactly tank the same amount of explosions that Rev-9's endoskeleton has. From that, we can make an inference that either Rev-9 is tougher to kill or has a stronger solid endoskeleton (since Rev-9's endoskeleton was still fully intact like Carl's arm).

@DarkDragonMedeus: Excuse me for the lack of an option to multi-quote posters, buster. Would you prefer that I just stick to replying to multiple posts with an "@" sign instead?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I meant, there is an edit button. If your post is the most recent one, then you could edit it to add more info. And it's also preferably to not have all the quoted text all at once.

 

[Alien_Dual_Blaster]

@ Colonel and Dark Dragon
Is The Battle Across Time Cannon? And to be fair both of those plasma gun feats still look like there around 9-B.

It used to be classified as canon by James Cameron until T3: Rise of the Machines and all the later sequels that followed.

 

[MJF6219]

@ Alien Dual Blaster

That's the thing, the Rev-9's endoskeleton wasn't fully intact after the turbine explosion. It was missing most of its right arm, it had a limp in its leg, and it could barley walk straight anymore. It's pretty simple, Carl's arm survived the exact same thing the Rev-9's endoskeleton did with noticeably much less damage done to it, if any damage at all (mainly due to the fact that the Rev-9's liquid metal exterior was grinded off by the turbine right before the explosion), this is heavily supported by the fact that Carl was able to lay the absolute smack down on the Rev-9's endoskeleton, even picking it up and tossing it at least a good 30 feet like it was a sack of shit. Needless to say, I felt like the movie Made it pretty clear that Carl is both stronger and more durable than the Rev-9's endoskeleton, with the only times the Rev-9 was able fight on par with either Grace or Carl, was when it's liquid metal exterior and it's endoskeleton were together.

 

[Hellbeast1]

Yeah I feel that should be mentioned

 

[Beamgc]

@ Colonel and Dark Dragon
Is The Battle Across Time Cannon? And to be fair both of those plasma gun feats still look like there around 9-B.

It used to be classified as canon by James Cameron until T3: Rise of the Machines and all the later sequels that followed.

for cameron, the only canon would be t1 and t2 and now dark fate. And I also think that T-888 from TSCC(Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles) should also have its profile, just like Cameron Philiphs (the female terminator)

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

All movies could technically be canon to the multiverse; it's just those are the only canon movies to the main timeline.

 

[Alien_Dual_Blaster]

@ Alien Dual Blaster
That's the thing, the Rev-9's endoskeleton wasn't fully intact after the turbine explosion. It was missing most of its right arm, it had a limp in its leg, and it could barley walk straight anymore. It's pretty simple, Carl's arm survived the exact same thing the Rev-9's endoskeleton did with noticeably much less damage done to it, if any damage at all (mainly due to the fact that the Rev-9's liquid metal exterior was grinded off by the turbine right before the explosion), this is heavily supported by the fact that Carl was able to lay the absolute smack down on the Rev-9's endoskeleton, even picking it up and tossing it at least a good 30 feet like it was a sack of shit. Needless to say, I felt like the movie Made it pretty clear that Carl is both stronger and more durable than the Rev-9's endoskeleton, with the only times the Rev-9 was able fight on par with either Grace or Carl, was when it's liquid metal exterior and it's endoskeleton were together.

Looks like on YouTube, I was lucky enough to spot a compilation vid of the later battle scenes in Terminator: Dark Fate (including the final one, but I can tell some parts were edited and cut out to avoid copyright takedown): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG7_6kymwgg

Lol, it's actually very unbelievable that Rev-9's liquid exterior without its regen is much more physically fragile in durability than I thought, especially Grace was able to slice the damn thing into pieces with a chain whip alone. And despite being able to protrude spikes out of his body for stabbing purposes without using his arms, he still couldn't shake off Carl and Grace (but I think that's primarily due to PIS on the writer's part to give the heroes what they need to do to beat the Big Bad).

After rewatching the scene with the hydroturbine explosion and its aftermath, yeah I guess I have to concede and admit my confirmation that the Rev-9 wasn't as intact as I thought from the result of such injuries dealt to this endoskeleton. The sheer heat coming from the explosion's energy and temperature must have incinerated ALL of his liquid metal.

I will concede that Carl was still able to walk like he did prior to the explosion in better operational state than Rev-9 and I will concede that if both Terminators were stripped down to just their bare endoskeleton, Carl would have the strength and skill edge over him. But again, it wasn't Carl who was riding the rotating magnetic fields inside the turbine generator like it was a fast-spinning carousel. If he was, I'd doubt he'd come out of the thing in much better condition than Rev-9 assuming if he would even survive at all (considering how Carl was incapacitated temporarily from the explosion and needed to be reactivated)

Here's a video to illustrate how a hydro electric turbine works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx6UfiEU3Q0

 

[MJF6219]

Ehh I feel like Carl getting knocked out by the explosion was just a common movie trope, to make it feel more cinematic when he saves Dani at the last second just before the Rev-9 kills her, especially since his endoskeleton seemed to take virtually zero damage from the explosion.

But still, us constantly debating this back and fourth is still kinda pointless since we already know that Carl, Grace, and the Rev-9 are comparable to each other anyway, and we already know that the Rev-9's Liquid metal exterior and endoskeleton are individually weaker and less durable then they are when their combined.

And cool you were able to find a clip of the explosion. I could essentially calc that explosion right now if I wanted to, but the quality is so damn low that it's extremely difficult to even make out the exact of shapes of Carl and Grace in this one shot that'd I'd need, so I can use one of their heights to find the size of the explosion, so it'd probably be safer to not calc it yet and wait until someone finds a better quality video of it, but don't worry, I'll have a feat from Salvation fully calc'd by Tomorrow.

 

[Alien_Dual_Blaster]

Ehh I feel like Carl getting knocked out by the explosion was just a common movie trope, to make it feel more cinematic when he saves Dani at the last second just before the Rev-9 kills her, especially since his endoskeleton seemed to take virtually zero damage from the explosion.
But still, us constantly debating this back and fourth is still kinda pointless since we already know that Carl, Grace, and the Rev-9 are comparable to each other anyway, and we already know that the Rev-9's Liquid metal exterior and endoskeleton are individually weaker and less durable then they are when their combined.

And cool you were able to find a clip of the explosion. I could essentially calc that explosion right now if I wanted to, but the quality is so damn low that it's extremely difficult to even make out the exact of shapes of Carl and Grace in this one shot that'd I'd need, so I can use one of their heights to find the size of the explosion, so it'd probably be safer to not calc it yet and wait until someone finds a better quality video of it, but don't worry, I'll have a feat from Salvation fully calc'd by Tomorrow.

Well I'm glad we recognize that this segment of our debate concerning both Carl's and Rev-9's durability has been running around in endless circles. But I believe our point of contention in the whole debate was about who received most of the explosion's energy and damage (and I pointed out that Rev-9 took a full spin inside while Carl didn't). With both his units together, I will say Rev-9 outedges Carl, but separately, Carl is above him by a good margin. That's where we should leave it all at.

Yeah good luck calcing the explosion. But I doubt it's going to ultimately surpass T-850's nuke cell in potency.

 

[MJF6219]

Yea I don't really expect it to have better results then the T-850's fuel cell explosion. But Hopefully it'll be somewhere where in the 9-A Range so it could give the movie Terminators an actual calc/feat that fully supports their current rating, just waiting for a better quality clip of the explosion.

But in the meantime I was able to calc this from Terminator Salvation. It's not 9-A, but it's still a decent supporting feat I guess.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Is worth getting the feat from the T2 the Battle Across Time? I know it's an attraction thing, but I think Author intent on how powerful plasma weapons is important as it's impossible to find other feats for the weapons. At best you should be able to argue for a "Possibly" rating.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

I made a calc for the wall busting feat I mentioned above.

 

[Beamgc]

Yea I don't really expect it to have better results then the T-850's fuel cell explosion. But Hopefully it'll be somewhere where in the 9-A Range so it could give the movie Terminators an actual calc/feat that fully supports their current rating, just waiting for a better quality clip of the explosion.
But in the meantime I was able to calc this from Terminator Salvation. It's not 9-A, but it's still a decent supporting feat I guess.

the t-850 was able to partially survive the explosion, since his head was intact and his CPU too, so he could be fixed

 

[MJF6219]

That hardly matters, it still blew most of him to pieces. So we still couldn't logically scale that to his durability.

 

[Alien_Dual_Blaster]

Yea I don't really expect it to have better results then the T-850's fuel cell explosion. But Hopefully it'll be somewhere where in the 9-A Range so it could give the movie Terminators an actual calc/feat that fully supports their current rating, just waiting for a better quality clip of the explosion.
But in the meantime I was able to calc this from Terminator Salvation. It's not 9-A, but it's still a decent supporting feat I guess.

the t-850 was able to partially survive the explosion, since his head was intact and his CPU too, so he could be fixed

His CPU may have partially survived the epicenter of the explosion (somewhat impressive), but he was still for all intents and purposes blown into crippled pieces, rendering him inoperable, making your point an invalid one.

 

[Beamgc]

im not even scaling him to it, just saying that he should be at least 9-A + for partially surviving the blast. In the game john connor recovers his CPU and put into another body, so yeah he survived that thing https://youtu.be/h0d8c5z34oU?t=247

 

[Alien_Dual_Blaster]

im not even scaling him to it, just saying that he should be at least 9-A + for partially surviving the blast. In the game john connor recovers his CPU and put into another body, so yeah he survived that thing https://youtu.be/h0d8c5z34oU?t=247

Oh yeah I vaguely recall seeing a bit of that scene on YouTube, but the question is are game adaptations to be treated as canon to the movie itself?

 

[Beamgc]

im not even scaling him to it, just saying that he should be at least 9-A + for partially surviving the blast. In the game john connor recovers his CPU and put into another body, so yeah he survived that thing https://youtu.be/h0d8c5z34oU?t=247

Oh yeah I vaguely recall seeing a bit of that scene on YouTube, but the question is are game adaptations to be treated as canon to the movie itself?

The game should not be completely ignored, just as comics are not ignored here. The game faithfully follows the lore of the movie and still explains a lot. The fact that John Connor was able to recover the t-850 cpu means that the game agrees that he survived the blast and that's evidence about it. Towards the end of the movie we see that he is still active and only turn off because he was disconnected from his power reactor.

 

[Alien_Dual_Blaster]

im not even scaling him to it, just saying that he should be at least 9-A + for partially surviving the blast. In the game john connor recovers his CPU and put into another body, so yeah he survived that thing https://youtu.be/h0d8c5z34oU?t=247

Oh yeah I vaguely recall seeing a bit of that scene on YouTube, but the question is are game adaptations to be treated as canon to the movie itself?

The game should not be completely ignored, just as comics are not ignored here. The game faithfully follows the lore of the movie and still explains a lot. The fact that John Connor was able to recover the t-850 cpu means that the game agrees that he survived the blast and that's evidence about it. Towards the end of the movie we see that he is still active and only turn off because he was disconnected from his power reactor.

Does this also mean that feats derived from video game material shouldn't be off the table for both Aliens and Predator either?

Also since you brought up comics as an analogy, if I'm not mistaken, aren't the comics considered a distinct set of continuities or at least separate material from the main films as well? I bet there is a reason that an umbrella term called "Expanded Universe" exists for these kinds of series.

If you want to treat the game as supplementary to the film, that's fine by me. But the explosion still had him knocked out severely to the point of having John Connor come and retrieve his CPU to revive his consciousness in a new and different machine, so in a versus thread, wouldn't that be considered loss by incapacitation?

 

[MJF6219]

The Games should simply just have a separate key or profile like the comics.

 

[Alien_Dual_Blaster]

The Games should simply just have a separate key or profile like the comics.

Or would it be simpler and more convenient to just merge it in the same category as "Expanded Universe (Books/Comics)", though we should modify the key's name by including "Video Games" into the equation.

 

[Beamgc]

If you want to treat the game as supplementary to the film, that's fine by me. But the explosion still had him knocked out severely to the point of having John Connor come and retrieve his CPU to revive his consciousness in a new and different machine, so in a versus thread, wouldn't that be considered loss by incapacitation?

Yes, but I think u can still use this feat as an argument for his durability in vs thread, I still think it's a durability feat even though it's not fully scalable.

 

[Beamgc]

Me again, I think that T-888 (TSCC) should also get a profile or be mentioned, they should have high-low regen for being able to rebuild after being completely in pieces. They should be weaker than T-800 since they are made most for infiltration, while T-800 was made to fight in the frontline.

 

[Alien_Dual_Blaster]

If you want to treat the game as supplementary to the film, that's fine by me. But the explosion still had him knocked out severely to the point of having John Connor come and retrieve his CPU to revive his consciousness in a new and different machine, so in a versus thread, wouldn't that be considered loss by incapacitation?

Yes, but I think u can still use this feat as an argument for his durability in vs thread, I still think it's a durability feat even though it's not fully scalable.

It's a pretty useful feat to cite as the upper limit for T-850's durability. In a fight to the death, any explosion whose value is calculated to be higher than the Fuel Cell is going to probably going to permanently kill the T-850 for sure.

 

[Alien_Dual_Blaster]

Me again, I think that T-888 (TSCC) should also get a profile or be mentioned, they should have high-low regen for being able to rebuild after being completely in pieces. They should be weaker than T-800 since they are made most for infiltration, while T-800 was made to fight in the frontline.

TBH, the T-888 as well as most Terminators in Sarah Connor Chronicles were kinda garbage compared to the main film's Terminators. Their durability feats (minus that show's version of the T-1000) weren't all that impressive, a few of them were killed by a sufficient number of shotgun blasts and other relatively weaker assaults that the movie Terminators can survive with zero visible injuries. Wasn't the original Terminator made for infiltration as well?

 

[Beamgc]

Yes, but the T-888 seems to have a greater focus on infiltration, they appear to be made of a more lighter metal which eventually sacrificed their durability and made them a lot more fragile than a T-800. TSCC creator Josh Friedman said they weigh as much as a human, so they should weigh 200 lbs at most. In terminator 3 firefighters try to lift a T-850 but fail, which means it should weigh around 400lbs. Both T-800 and T-850 were made focusing on combat as priority and then infiltration, unlike the T-888 which focuses on infiltration as priority and then combat.

 

[Alien_Dual_Blaster]

Yes, but the T-888 seems to have a greater focus on infiltration, they appear to be made of a more lighter metal which eventually sacrificed their durability and made them a lot more fragile than a T-800. TSCC creator Josh Friedman said they weigh as much as a human, so they should weigh 200 lbs at most. In terminator 3 firefighters try to lift a T-850 but fail, which means it should weigh around 400lbs. Both T-800 and T-850 were made focusing on combat as priority and then infiltration, unlike the T-888 which focuses on infiltration as priority and then combat.

I am guessing the writers of Sarah Connor Chronicles wanted to portray most of the Terminators as being closer to realistic fighters who simply want to get closer to John Connor's ass and focus more on typical character drama arcs over a bloodfest of pure combat like the movies.

If their weight is only equal to that of a realistic human, that only explains how wide the gap and disparity of the Film Terminators and SCC Terminators (in physical stats) really is.

Eh, it seems to me that the film Terminators carry out both infiltration and combat in the same breath.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

So there's also a scene where the Terminators walk out of the sea. I think we should edit the weaknesses to say that they can't swim, but can walk on the ocean surface.

I'm going to try and find out what durability is required to walk on the ocean floor as the pressure might yield something.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, he can still walk on the sea bed.

 

[GojiBoyForever]

Well most things can't survive the pressure down there except evry specialized machines and creatures born down there.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It is a '''Wall level''' durability feat yes.

 

[Alien_Dual_Blaster]

So there's also a scene where the Terminators walk out of the sea. I think we should edit the weaknesses to say that they can't swim, but can walk on the ocean surface.
I'm going to try and find out what durability is required to walk on the ocean floor as the pressure might yield something.

Walking through the surface of the ocean despite overwhelming pressure of the water's depth trying to crush them into a can of scrap metal is a good feat to compensate for your lack of swimming prowess. Sounds like Jason Voorhees from Jason Takes Manhattan.