The Boys - Piercing Damage and Bulletproofing

[Just_Butchering]

Taking inspiration from the L4D profiles and to a lesser extent profiles like Old Man Logan and Mysterio, I wanted to suggest adding to the characters' profiles a clarification that firearms can harm supes on the 9-A to 8-C range.

There are several examples of this:

• Kimiko gets shot here, with a bullet even piercing her skull (S3E4)
• Bullets go through her body here (S2E5) and here (S3E8)
• Hughie injures Kimiko here (S5E4)
• Hughie shoots through Noir's hand (S2E5) (I also think before this MM harms Noir, but because Noir is muted and the image is dark, I can't tell)
• MM hurts sheline here (S5E7)

Yeah, it's mostly Kimiko, but it should still count, plus we have other characters in her tier getting hurt by this.

But, what about characters like Starlight, Stormfront and Noir II that are on their level and don't hurt by firearms? Well, thta is because those are bulletproof supes, an actual ability that exists in the verse... that's mad common, like, most supes on this level and above have it lol
Anyways, for those, I think they should have the bulletproof durability added under powers and abilities (most supes now have it under feats, which like, yeah, but also, why? it is a power), and mention (likely in their durability section, but if someone thinks it's better to clarify it somewhere else, it's ok) that they can tank piercing damage on their level (the 9-A to 8-C) variety.
And for the users of those firearms, I suggest they get a clarification like that of the L4D characters I mention of what they can do via piercing damage.

• Here's an example of both on one sandbox.

Oh, and as you can see there, I gave a far higher rating to stronger weapons. The explanation is there to read it, but basically the logic is

• Starlight is bulletproof, but despite failing to pierce her skin, the .50 caliuber bullet still knocks her down and makes her feel a lot of pain (S1E7).
• Noir II is also bulletproof, and yet despite his attempts to prevent it, the minigun still pushes him back and out a window

Agree: @Omegas03, @Crazylatin77, @KingTempest, @DarkDragonMedeus
Neutral:
Disagree:

 

[Omegas03]

Is theres anyway to explain MM surviving Sheline so long when she was like (somewhaaat) comparable to Kimiko?

 

[Just_Butchering]

Is theres anyway to explain MM surviving Sheline so long when she was like (somewhaaat) comparable to Kimiko?

An outlier. Same scene Sheline displayed superhuman strength.

 

[Omegas03]

An outlier. Same scene Sheline displayed superhuman strength.

Damn the writing has been so buns this season agreed with the CRT btw

 

[Just_Butchering]

Damn the writing has been so buns this season

Lmao, I feel like I said "outlier" a thousand times for this season

agreed with the CRT btw

Thanks pal

 

[Comiphorous]

I have zero strong feelings about this CRT, but...

MM hurts sheline here (S5E7)

Is she even a 9-A/8-C supe?

Starlight is bulletproof, but despite failing to pierce her skin, the .50 caliuber bullet still knocks her down and makes her feel a lot of pain (S1E7).

Did it do any actual physical damage to her though? If it only knocked the wind out of her without causing any damage to her skin I honestly see no reason to use this for a "far higher" rating on weapons.

Noir II is also bulletproof, and yet despite his attempts to prevent it, the minigun still pushes him back and out a window

why would we give a "far higher" with an attack that did literally no physical damage to noir? being pushed by an attack doing zero damage to you doesn't mean the person can harm you. MM even says he'll be right back up in no time.

 

[Crazylatin77]

Mostly agree, tho it feels weird to give Noir II bulletproof durability. He was ultimately killed with piercing damage.

 

[Just_Butchering]

I have zero strong feelings about this CRT, but...

Is she even a 9-A/8-C supe?

She fought Kimiko, so yes

Did it do any actual physical damage to her though? If it only knocked the wind out of her without causing any damage to her skin I honestly see no reason to use this for a "far higher" rating on weapons.

It's "far higher" because it even stronger than normal weapons. Like, a pistol wouldn't even make her flinch, but the sniper knocked the wind out of her. It doesn't scale to her, but relative to other stuff thrown at her, it far better.

why would we give a "far higher" with an attack that did literally no physical damage to noir? being pushed by an attack doing zero damage to you doesn't mean the person can harm you. MM even says he'll be right back up in no time.

Same as with starlight. The shotgun shots in the scene staggered him at close range, but were less effective from farther away, while the minigun was harder for him to deal with, but an actual threat.

 

[Just_Butchering]

Mostly agree, tho it feels weird to give Noir II bulletproof durability. He was ultimately killed with piercing damage.

Feels weird, but he had it. He was bulletproof.

Only other possiblity is maybe the suit has bulletproof? But idk

 

[Comiphorous]

She fought Kimiko, so yes

Lowkey stupid as hell but I suppose can't argue with that.

It's "far higher" because it even stronger than normal weapons. Like, a pistol wouldn't even make her flinch, but the sniper knocked the wind out of her. It doesn't scale to her, but relative to other stuff thrown at her, it far better.

That's fine then.

Same as with starlight. The shotgun shots in the scene staggered him at close range, but were less effective from farther away, while the minigun was harder for him to deal with, but an actual threat.

Honestly I saw it as him being pushed back because he's in the air instead of the ground, not because it was any more effective against him. I personally think using the minigun as evidence is a bit iffy due to how the only reason it took him out of the fight was that he fell out of the window, not because it did anything notable to him unlike the starlight scene where it actually was more effective against her than other weapons. But i see your logic.

 

[Comiphorous]

Mostly agree, tho it feels weird to give Noir II bulletproof durability. He was ultimately killed with piercing damage.

Deep Upscales with The Deep. That's because he's the second best character just behind Oh Father.

 

[KingTempest]

This ***** is diabolical

It works

 

[Just_Butchering]

Lowkey stupid as hell but I suppose can't argue with that.

Yeah, Sheline is uh, not that impressive, but still technically comparable

That's fine then.

Honestly I saw it as him being pushed back because he's in the air instead of the ground, not because it was any more effective against him. I personally think using the minigun as evidence is a bit iffy due to how the only reason it took him out of the fight was that he fell out of the window, not because it did anything notable to him unlike the starlight scene where it actually was more effective against her than other weapons. But i see your logic.

It's mostly that pistols likely wouldn't have pushing out the building like the minigun did

This ***** is diabolical

It works

Great! Thanks

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Seems fine to note; though I will mention real quick that piercing damage of bullets doesn't realistically get any higher than 9-A (And in the case of 9-C handguns, piercing damage realistically only goes up to 9-B at best).

But notes in durability section about being undamaged by most firearms seems good.

 

[Just_Butchering]

Seems fine to note; though I will mention real quick that piercing damage of bullets doesn't realistically get any higher than 9-A (And in the case of 9-C handguns, piercing damage realistically only goes up to 9-B at best).

Here is distinguished a bit because the characters in question are 9-A to 8-C in rating

But notes in durability section about being undamaged by most firearms seems good.

So it would go in durability?

 

[Hellbeast]

Mostly agree, tho it feels weird to give Noir II bulletproof durability. He was ultimately killed with piercing damage.

To be fair Noir’s knives are cracked and capable of tearing open his own arm.

We also know Vought has created weapons that scale to the Supes, such as Soldier Boy’s shield or Maeve’s gear.

 

[Just_Butchering]

To be fair Noir’s knives are cracked and capable of tearing open his own arm.

Yeah, they can cut him and Kimiko. Only issue is that he didn't use them against the bulletproof (and to an extent cut resistance) Starlight during their fight (S2E...7?) and instead tried to manhandle her and choke her to death.

We also know Vought has created weapons that scale to the Supes, such as Soldier Boy’s shield or Maeve’s gear.

Oh yeah, SB's shield would scale to his strength.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Mostly agree, tho it feels weird to give Noir II bulletproof durability. He was ultimately killed with piercing damage.

Using his own knife that he uses to kill other Supes of his caliber. Plus, it was another 8-C supe that used it, I think it's fair to say the material of the knife was way higher than anything else.

 

[Just_Butchering]

Using his own knife that he uses to kill other Supes of his caliber. Plus, it was another 8-C supe that used it, I think it's fair to say the material of the knife was way higher than anything else.

I mean, Neuman cut herself with Marie's cheap ass knife and she meant to be invulnerable and all, so maybe it's just an anti-feat

 

[GodlyCharmander]

I mean, Neuman cut herself with Marie's cheap ass knife and she meant to be invulnerable and all, so maybe it's just an anti-feat

Neuman's an anti-feat, or maybe they just consider that the material doesn't matter as much as the strength of the yielder

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I mean, Neuman cut herself with Marie's cheap ass knife and she meant to be invulnerable and all, so maybe it's just an anti-feat

Neuman is also 8-C.

 

[Just_Butchering]

Neuman is also 8-C.

Neuman's an anti-feat, or maybe they just consider that the material doesn't matter as much as the strength of the yielder

If the argument here comes from how bullets can hurt 9-A to 8-C characters, then that characters are shown impervious to this type of damage (at least on this level), then how can "the strength of the yielder" change it?
The logic would then be: 9-A/8-C rating <= bullets << bulletproof durability << Deep and Neuman with a knife.
Neuman's feat was already accepted as anti-feat, so should Deep's vs Noir II.

Ooor, could be the "soft tissue" argument (long story short, The Boys had the virus on a dart, but didn't know how to get into Neuman's system, but Frenchie said "with carbon metamaterial and if I shot at soft tissue... Maybe". Yeah, he wasn't sure but Neuman was "invulnerable" while Noir II is bulletproof (related but not the same), so maybe Deep stabbed in soft tissue?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

If the argument here comes from how bullets can hurt 9-A to 8-C characters, then that characters are shown impervious to this type of damage (at least on this level), then how can "the strength of the yielder" change it?
The logic would then be: 9-A/8-C rating <= bullets << bulletproof durability << Deep and Neuman with a knife.
Neuman's feat was already accepted as anti-feat, so should Deep's vs Noir II.

Ooor, could be the "soft tissue" argument (long story short, The Boys had the virus on a dart, but didn't know how to get into Neuman's system, but Frenchie said "with carbon metamaterial and if I shot at soft tissue... Maybe". Yeah, he wasn't sure but Neuman was "invulnerable" while Noir II is bulletproof (related but not the same), so maybe Deep stabbed in soft tissue?

If regular firearms can harm tier 8 characters, okay. But melee weapons are different. It doesn't make sense to use Deep harming Noir with a knife or Neuman harming herself with a knife as an anti-feat. Since it's simply tier 9/8 characters harming other tier 9/8 characters. The weapon used doesn't matter much since the one applying the pressure is a superhuman character. There are tons of tier 9/8/7/6 etc. wiki characters who use regular melee weapons with nothing special about them, but who also harm other comparable characters of the same tier. We always consider that the power of a melee weapon is derived from the power of the wielder (with the exception of weapons that have their own power).

 

[Just_Butchering]

If regular firearms can harm tier 8 characters, okay. But melee weapons are different. It doesn't make sense to use Deep harming Noir with a knife or Neuman harming herself with a knife as an anti-feat. Since it's simply tier 9/8 characters harming other tier 9/8 characters. The weapon used doesn't matter much since the one applying the pressure is a superhuman character. There are tons of tier 9/8/7/6 etc. wiki characters who use regular melee weapons with nothing special about them, but who also harm other comparable characters of the same tier. We always consider that the power of a melee weapon is derived from the power of the wielder (with the exception of weapons that have their own power).

But that's not what I'm saying.
Let's say it with number. Kimiko and Noir II scale from 0.428 Tons (Lamplighter's feat). They both take hits from characters on such level, so it's fine. However, bullets can harm Kimiko but not Noir II, despite being on the same tier.
The reason is that Noir II is resistant to his type of damage at this level (so, let's say he scales to 0.428 in normal durability, far higher [because he tanks them] against piercing damage [the type that bullets do]). How can then Deep pierce him if they are comparable?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

If it only happened on one or two occasions, that would be inconsistent, but if it's consistent, then as I said, okay.

Although it's kind of complicated to deal with immortal/regenerative characters like Kimiko. Works almost always treat this type of character with negative durability and getting injured by any attack just to demonstrate their regeneration.

 

[KingTempest]

But that's not what I'm saying.
Let's say it with number. Kimiko and Noir II scale from 0.428 Tons (Lamplighter's feat). They both take hits from characters on such level, so it's fine. However, bullets can harm Kimiko but not Noir II, despite being on the same tier.
The reason is that Noir II is resistant to his type of damage at this level (so, let's say he scales to 0.428 in normal durability, far higher [because he tanks them] against piercing damage [the type that bullets do]). How can then Deep pierce him if they are comparable?

There's a similarity in another verse I scale, One Piece, in where characters of certain calibers are vulnerable to gunfire vs others who are resistant

Resistance to Blades and Blunt Force Trauma (Via their exoskeleton which grants them "iron bodies")

Just note it as a resistance

 

[Just_Butchering]

There's a similarity in another verse I scale, One Piece, in where characters of certain calibers are vulnerable to gunfire vs others who are resistant

Just note it as a resistance

Yeah, that's a good idea, thanks!

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Here is distinguished a bit because the characters in question are 9-A to 8-C in rating

I'm aware the characters are in that range, just pointing out our common rule of thumb tradition that non supernatural or non Mythril/Adamantium archetype firearms are either treated based on own calcs/feats and/or compared to RL counterparts. Though fiction exaggerating penetration power and/or treating it as a common weakness for various characters are often acknowledged.

So it would go in durability?

But this is good yeah.

 

[Demon_Lord18]

If regular firearms can harm tier 8 characters, okay. But melee weapons are different. It doesn't make sense to use Deep harming Noir with a knife or Neuman harming herself with a knife as an anti-feat. Since it's simply tier 9/8 characters harming other tier 9/8 characters. The weapon used doesn't matter much since the one applying the pressure is a superhuman character. There are tons of tier 9/8/7/6 etc. wiki characters who use regular melee weapons with nothing special about them, but who also harm other comparable characters of the same tier. We always consider that the power of a melee weapon is derived from the power of the wielder (with the exception of weapons that have their own power).

In my opinion, this should be considered an anti-feat in series where characters do not possess magic or some kind of energy capable of increasing the blade’s durability. I think that, in cases where they do not have energy/magic, we should assume that knives have the same durability that a knife made of the same material would have in real life.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It's also important to note swords and knives are actually sharper than bullets are, which means typically more piercing power relative to Joules. More over, it's especially true when those using them are superhumans themselves; melee weapons in general aren't usually supposed to be tiered per say as it comes from the wielders. One can put muscle into a melee weapon, unlike a sparked up gunpowder launching a bullet. That would explain the "Shown to be bullet proof, but has been impaled by knives" thing.