The Terminator feats mix up

[GojiBoyForever]

Tbh the T-1000 is enough for me with the whole unkillable fluid terminator schtick. I prefer they be more creative.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I do agree that the T-1000 was the best villain. And T-800/Arnold is the best Terminator though. But, I liked him best as the good guy.

 

[GojiBoyForever]

Nah can't really agree with that, original T-800 was the best.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Nah can't really agree with that, original T-800 was the best.

"Phased plasma rifle in the 40 Watt range"

"Hey just what you see pal"

 

[Alien_Dual_Blaster]

It may just be that the liquid melts at a lower temperature.
As cool as seeing a gas based terminator would be, it'd probably be too OP for a script. The T-1000 was pretty much unkillable and it was pretty convenient that they managed to crash into a place where they could actually defeat it.

I concur with Colonel Krukov here. Having a "Gas"-based Terminator would not only be portrayed as too invincible by movie standards, but how the **** would anyone possibly even write such a character? A Terminator villain like that would literally be too borderline absurd and weird to write as an actual coherent character for its story. Aren't Terminators are supposed to be constructed out of more tangible substances like titanium and not gas? Hell even the Mimetic Polyalloy of the T-1000 was formed using nanorobotics and nanotechnology (the very thing that creates T-1000's iconic liquid-based nature).

 

[GojiBoyForever]

Wasn't that pretty much the T-3000?

 

[Alien_Dual_Blaster]

Wasn't that pretty much the T-3000?

T-3000 wasn't made out of gas at all. Just souped-up nanotechnology greater than that of a T-1000's.

 

[GojiBoyForever]

I mean the dude was phasing through shit like he was, but I digress this need to stop.

 

[Alien_Dual_Blaster]

We'd have to heat up the gas terminator till it becomes 100% plasma/ionization to kill it. Or even better yet would be nuking them on a molecular/atomic level. And Terminator that could regenerate from a single atom would be an example that would be too OP for script however.

Yeah turning a new Terminator into another Majin Buu or Cell would be way too wacky and nonsensical for me to stand. Might as well create a new Predator or a new Xenomorph that can regenerate from having their entire physical bodies wiped from existence.

Either way, it doesn't matter anyways, the Terminator series is dead to me at this point. May as well as make a final Terminator movie where both the machines and the humans permanently die from the entire planet exploding into rock fragments, DBZ-style.

 

[Alien_Dual_Blaster]

I do agree that the T-1000 was the best villain. And T-800/Arnold is the best Terminator though. But, I liked him best as the good guy.

The third best Terminator villain after Robert Patrick's T-1000 and the original T-800 imho would be the T-3000 (or the T-X for silly fanservice reasons).

 

[Alien_Dual_Blaster]

I mean the dude was phasing through shit like he was, but I digress this need to stop.

So was the T-1000 when he walked through the metal bars of a correctional facility that Sarah Connor was held in. But T-3000's ability to phase was clearly far more advanced and superior.

 

[MJF6219]

I saw the movie again, so a few things: (Warning, Mega post incoming)

When separated the Rev-9 very clearly seems to be weaker then when he's whole. Carl was able to absolutely manhandle his endo-skeleton by himself while Grace was able to slice through his liquid metal exterior with ease by herself. He was only able to fight on par with either of them when both his Endo-skeleton and liquid metal exterior were combined/together.

His liquid metal exterior is very similar to the T-1000 as in conventional bullets, shot gun shells, and low level explosives have been shown to easily damage both of them, but they simply just reform/regenerate from any damage those kind of things cause to them.

Now about the turbine explosion:

Both Grace and Carl were straight up like less then a foot away from the turbine when it exploded so their distance shouldn't even matter. Though I will admit that I probably overestimated the turbine explosion the first time I saw it, I wouldn't be surprised if it only came out with Wall level to Wall level+ results after seeing it this time.

And Yea Grace did take a lot of damage from that explosion, though like Alien Dual Blaster said, this seemed to be due to her more human physiology and her ability to still feel pain. None of her cybernetic parts seemed to be damaged , just her human parts. Simply put, if she was a real full on Terminator then that explosion wouldn't have done anything to her. Which brings me to another interesting Point about the turbine explosion...

Other then getting knocked unconscious by the explosion, Carl like literally took no real damage from the explosion. Like all the explosion did was remove some skin and flesh from his skeleton. Hell, even the arm that he shoved in the turbine (that was already missing a hand since the Rev-9 tore it off while they were underwater) was still completely intact after the explosion, with no noticeable damage done to it. Needless to say, Carl took that explosion like a champ. It makes me think that him getting knocked unconscious was simply a plot device, to make it feel more cinematic when he saves Dani at the last second.

Another decent feat in the movie was the UAV explosion that Grace survived around the middle of the movie. Again, just by eye balling it, it's probably only Wall level to Wall level+. Although the UAV explosion did destroy a car in the process, and if we could get solid proof that the explosion fragmented the Car then that would be a solid 9-A feat since fragmenting a car is 9-A.

Something else I've come to realize is that the film Terminators have zero calcs, literally every feat listed on the T-800's page are just a bunch of durability feats form the first movie that don't have any calcs to back them up. I can already tell you that the only feat on his page that actually has a chance in hell at being anything past Wall level is the Gas truck explosion, but even that might still be questionable since I'm pretty sure gas based explosions are treated as being kinda strange to calc properly.

So with this in mind, I personally believe that the film Terminators currently have no feats/calcs that actually support and provide concrete evidence for their current 9-A rating. So really the only thing we could do is eventually get those two aforementioned explosions calc'd along with any feats that look like they could yield some impressive results and just see what they come out to. I know of a feat from Terminator: Salvation that looks like it could possibly yield 9-A results. It's quite a simple feat that I could calc myself, so I'll be getting that done myself likely within the next day or two.

Honestly it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone if all these feats come back with high Wall level results, since that's always seemed to be their consistently portrayed level of power anyway.

 

[Hellbeast1]

So Jason V Terminator is even

I'm in (Also why are gas explosions so weird to calc?)

 

[MJF6219]

You can see Kepekley23 kind of explaining why gas explosions aren't even real explosions in a way here in this thread

"Eh, even then the durability of characters who tank fuel-based "explosions" (not actual explosions) is only 9-B maximum. They only tank heat."

"Gasoline doesn't explode. It burns. It looks like an explosion, but it isn't one."

Just to Quote some of the things he said.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, gas explosions aren't usually real explosions. Sometimes cartoons do treat gas explosions like real explosions due to the nature of them, but they're usually more like giant fireballs rather than physical explosions with pressure.

 

[Hellbeast1]

Ah that makes sense

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Didn't Sarah drop a pretty hefty explosive on the Rev-9 when it crashed off of the highway? Getting a calc or a screen of the explosive used might be useful.

 

[Hellbeast1]

She did but it had to heal itself so it doesn't scale to durability

 

[MJF6219]

^ Yea this, plus that was just His liquid metal exterior by it self which was always get getting heavily damaged/splattered by wall level stuff. Like when Carl hit/splattered it with a grenade launcher round during the airplane fight scene, grenade launcher rounds are generally only 9-B. Even the Rev-9's endo-skeleton survived a direct hit from what looked liked an M72 Law, which I'd imagine would be a little weaker then something like the AT4 due to being a much older more Vietnam War era weapon. So needless to say like everything The Terminators did in Dark Fate seemed to blatantly be 9-B stuff, just like it was in like every other Terminator movie.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

I think what we really need is to know how powerful phased plasma rifles are, because lets face it, it's likely to yield the best feats.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looking at Terminator wiki, the "40 Watt range" is making them sound unimpressive. Watts would just be Joules/second and 40 watts would be baseline 10-B in that regard. Albeit, it damages in different way; and that could mean it generates that much energy for every second it's being charged.

But, I do know some of the explosions they caused, there should be some good results. And due to the nature of Terminators being "Indestructible", they really should at bare minimum have the durability to withstand an RPG-7. Terminators also survive things that normally vaporize humans completely, though that's often more so heat resistance rather than durability.

 

[MJF6219]

@Colonel

Yea they probably would, but IIRC don't they easily kill T-800s in one shot? So I don't really think they could scale to thier physical Ap or durability.

And I don't really remember there being any prominent moments or Calc worthy moments they had in the films to be honest.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

It sucks that we don't have any many future war scenes. Salvation takes place during the earlier periods and T1 and T2 only have brief scenes.

I might actually take a quick look at Genisys since the future war scene was somewhat longer.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

@Colonel

Yea they probably would, but IIRC don't they easily kill T-800s in one shot? So I don't really think they could scale to their physical Ap or durability.

And I don't really remember there being any prominent moments or Calc worthy moments they had in the films to be honest.

There's a thing that later terminator models had greater resistance to plasma weapons as the Resistance got hands on plasma weapons.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The Arnold Terminator is actually significantly more durable than the copy cats of him; especially considering Pops has multiple notable enhancement upgrades. Arnie regularly survives things that tend to oneshot other Terminators.

And believe it or not, the strongest portrayal of Arnold would probably be the Terminator 3D attraction at Universal Studios. But, I don't think we could use that to scale to anyone, sadly.

 

[GojiBoyForever]

Didn't the og Terminator beat the shit out of Pops?

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

I do think that the Model-101 is probably more powerful than generic T-800's.

Naaa, he stalemated him till he got killed by a high powered rifle to the skull.

 

[GojiBoyForever]

Alrighty then.

 

[MJF6219]

@DarkDragon

Yea if thier constantly considered as "indestructible" then yea I'd imagine they'd be able to survive something like an RPG-7 explosion, though I have a feeling a majortiy of there Ap and Durability feats kinda contradict that.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

I just checked Genisys and then best thing I could find was Connor and Reese shooting at a different model. Was tanking 'em like a champ till Skynet was shut down.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@MJF PIS is a common thing in fiction, plus stuff like getting detonated by a pipe bomb only happened because it was inside them terminator and thus activated some weak points and/or chain reactions. If it was just, in their face, a lot of explosions are usually shrugged off just fine.

 

[MJF6219]

Well yea The reason the pipe bomb basically destroyed him is because The T-800s were at their weakest portrayals in T1 and T2.

 

[MJF6219]

And I've always been confused about the whole "different models of terminators thing". So Model 101 T-800s are strictly the Terminators that look like Arnold right?

 

[GojiBoyForever]

I always thought they could be used interchangeably.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Yeah, Model-101 are all Arnie's.

 

[Alien_Dual_Blaster]

I saw the movie again, so a few things: (Warning, Mega post incoming)
When separated the Rev-9 very clearly seems to be weaker then when he's whole. Carl was able to absolutely manhandle his endo-skeleton by himself while Grace was able to slice through his liquid metal exterior with ease by herself. He was only able to fight on par with either of them when both his Endo-skeleton and liquid metal exterior were combined/together.

His liquid metal exterior is very similar to the T-1000 as in conventional bullets, shot gun shells, and low level explosives have been shown to easily damage both of them, but they simply just reform/regenerate from any damage those kind of things cause to them.

Now about the turbine explosion:

Both Grace and Carl were straight up like less then a foot away from the turbine when it exploded so their distance shouldn't even matter. Though I will admit that I probably overestimated the turbine explosion the first time I saw it, I wouldn't be surprised if it only came out with Wall level to Wall level+ results after seeing it this time.

And Yea Grace did take a lot of damage from that explosion, though like Alien Dual Blaster said, this seemed to be due to her more human physiology and her ability to still feel pain. None of her cybernetic parts seemed to be damaged , just her human parts. Simply put, if she was a real full on Terminator then that explosion wouldn't have done anything to her. Which brings me to another interesting Point about the turbine explosion...

Other then getting knocked unconscious by the explosion, Carl like literally took no real damage from the explosion. Like all the explosion did was remove some skin and flesh from his skeleton. Hell, even the arm that he shoved in the turbine (that was already missing a hand since the Rev-9 tore it off while they were underwater) was still completely intact after the explosion, with no noticeable damage done to it. Needless to say, Carl took that explosion like a champ. It makes me think that him getting knocked unconscious was simply a plot device, to make it feel more cinematic when he saves Dani at the last second.

Another decent feat in the movie was the UAV explosion that Grace survived around the middle of the movie. Again, just by eye balling it, it's probably only Wall level to Wall level+. Although the UAV explosion did destroy a car in the process, and if we could get solid proof that the explosion fragmented the Car then that would be a solid 9-A feat since fragmenting a car is 9-A.

Something else I've come to realize is that the film Terminators have zero calcs, literally every feat listed on the T-800's page are just a bunch of durability feats form the first movie that don't have any calcs to back them up. I can already tell you that the only feat on his page that actually has a chance in hell at being anything past Wall level is the Gas truck explosion, but even that might still be questionable since I'm pretty sure gas based explosions are treated as being kinda strange to calc properly.

So with this in mind, I personally believe that the film Terminators currently have no feats/calcs that actually support and provide concrete evidence for their current 9-A rating. So really the only thing we could do is eventually get those two aforementioned explosions calc'd along with any feats that look like they could yield some impressive results and just see what they come out to. I know of a feat from Terminator: Salvation that looks like it could possibly yield 9-A results. It's quite a simple feat that I could calc myself, so I'll be getting that done myself likely within the next day or two.

Honestly it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone if all these feats come back with high Wall level results, since that's always seemed to be their consistently portrayed level of power anyway.

1) Yes that is exactly what I have been trying to point out this whole time. The Rev-9 was pretty tougher when both halves of his body were united. His liquid half wasn't all that durable barring its regen (but that's the whole point of liquid itself) lol.

2) The difference is that Carl and Grace still weren't caught in the turbine. So that's the major difference between their durability and an unsplit Rev-9's.

3) You got that right, dude. In her regards, Grace was kinda in a similar situation to Robocop. She still possesses the vital organs of a human despite being covered with inorganic metal substances from head to toe. Which means she's still suspectible to dying to stabbing/impalement if such attacks against her were done in the right spots.

4) Carl tanking the explosion is just showing off Arnold's old roots in being the tough nearly-invincible action hero.

5) UAV explosion? I can't quite put my finger on which scene you're talking about, refresh my memory. But yeah, Grace surviving that must have been nothing short of impressive.

6) T-3000 from Genisys and the T-Million from Battle Across Time are perhaps the only Terminators that have the best credentials to qualify for 9-A, at least scaling from their durability feats (T-Million had to be beaten by having Skynet's core destroyed).

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Oof. Don't quote huge walls of text.

Spoilers Below

The UAV is when they try to sneak across the border and get caught. They are held at gunpoint and the R-9 fires a missile, from a remote location, to try and kill Dani. Grace jumps in and saves her.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

So I did some digging into The Battle Across Time video and here's what I thought was useful:

• Arnie tanks plasma rounds
• A plasma rifle can do this. A clearer shot of the aftermath. Another feat
• The T-1000000 takes some hits from the rifle. A size comparison between the T-1000000 and the T-800

 

[Alien_Dual_Blaster]

Didn't Sarah drop a pretty hefty explosive on the Rev-9 when it crashed off of the highway? Getting a calc or a screen of the explosive used might be useful.

Yeah Rev-9 was only to come back from such an attack through his potent-ass regen/reform abilities. From the looks of it, he was incapacitated for a while and needed time to return to his normal state under all that rubble under the highway.

 

[Alien_Dual_Blaster]

I do think that the Model-101 is probably more powerful than generic T-800's.
Naaa, he stalemated him till he got killed by a high powered rifle to the skull.

While they were both roughly even in strength/durability (due to being exact copies of each other), the original T-800 actually got more hits on Pops in the end. Though I'd chalk that up to Pops probably trying to provide a distraction for Sarah to snipe him with a .50 calibre sniper rifle.