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The SCP CRT 2: The Double Dunk

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Sir_Ovens

Sir_Ovens

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This revision will be a random assortment of miscellaneous things I left out of the original SCP CRT. This revision was kind of spontaneous, so forgive me if the quality isn't as good as the first revision.

Powers and Abilities​

Unfortunately, this section won't cover what actual powers and abilities will be added or removed. Instead, this will serve as more of a reminder that most of our god-tiers have unsourced powers and abilities. It would be great if we can discuss which pages need a cleanup, so I will leave this part open-ended.

Deleting Dr. Wondertainment's Page​

Dr. Wondertainment is a composite page and horribly misrepresents the character/corporate entity. For the uninitiated, Dr. Wondertainment is an entity that runs a company called Dr. Wondertainment. Confused yet? It gets better. There are multiple Dr. Wondertainments as each Wondertainment passes down their power to a chosen heir once they choose to step down from the position. On top of this, there is a Dr. Wondertainment entity in the form of a 001 article.

All the above entities are Dr. Wondertainment, but ever so slightly different individually. Our page describes all of them, and none of them at the same time. As such, it should be deleted and individual Wondertainment profiles should be made.

Removing the Thorn and Flood from 076's Page
This is an issue best illustrated by Dargoo, but I'll try to explain. The Flood was straight up not done by 076. It was the All-Mighty.

"Hevel, son of Adam, who had cast down the gods of Daevon, raised his voice in challenge to the Scarlet King.

And the Scarlet King answered him.

Hevel, son of Adam, took up his sword, and the floodgates of the sky opened up with a Flood that would wipe time itself clean.

And in doing so, the All-Mighty called upon the world, for the first time since the Word was spoken.

And the world was called upon to witness.

This is the history of mankind, fourth and final child-race of Earth, from the Finding of the Two Trees to the Flood."

This is an extract from Beneath Two Trees and the tale where 076 supposedly gets the Flood. As we can see, there's no direct correlation between 076 and the Flood itself. The text just says he raised his sword and the Flood happened after. There's no indication that 076 created it himself.

As for the Thorn, I don't actually have an argument for this. @Dargoo_Faust will have to help me out here.

Removing SCP-4444's High 3-A
Pretty straightforward. Our new standards for tiers don't make SCP-4444 High 3-A anymore. It should be replaced with Unknown, until someone else comes up with a more accurate tier.

Getting Rid of SCP-1440's Spear
Straight up, SCP-1440 doesn't have the spear. There is one tale that states that 1440 wielded a Spear of the Scarlet King pierced the Scarlet King himself. On the other hand, there are three tales that state that SCP-231-7 was the bearer of the 4th spear and pierced the Scarlet King instead. For the sake of consistency, I think we should accept the latter as truth over the former. As such, we should remove the spear from his page. I have a proposed profile adjustment here.

Mary Nakayama
Mary Nakayama's tier was left alone last time because I just wanted to delete that tier entirely. We have absolutely no context as to how far up Mary ascended. The best we got is a tale where she's in a room trying to manipulate the events of the Foundation universe. And even that is vague at best. I think leaving her at Unknown is best for now, although I am open to other suggestions.

Bright Additions
Bright has a lot of stuff left out on his page. First of all, SCP-5500 introduces us to the S.W.A.N.N. Engine, which kills the user and launches them up the Narrative. Bright uses this to reach Swann's Narrative and kill a bunch of Redditors (lol). He retains his powers at this level so a S.W.A.N.N. Engine key should be added to his page. Also, in this tale, Bright fights Able and wins, leading up to this tale, where Bright takes over Able's body and fights 682. This should be a separate key for Bright that gives him all the powers Able has.

God Tier Additions
Any character that fought the Scarlet King should get Non-Physical Interaction as SK is abstract. Also, any character that fought SK should get Large Size Type 9. SK made Yesod, a full multiverse, his throne. This should also make any god-tier above Yesod scale to Large Size Type 9.

Extended Canon Key for SCP-3999
SCP-3999 should get an extended canon key that scales to the whole Foundation multiverse, which should give it At least 2-A, likely Low 1-C, possibly higher.

Type 2 Concept Manipulation
This should be given to all Noosphere creatures since their concepts are wholly detached from the Foundation universe and transcend it. The Brothers Death might also get it since they created the Tree, which would also include all its concepts but I highly doubt this.

And that is all for now.
 
I think Mary should be set at Low 2-C, but I wouldn't be too upset if she was put at Unknown instead.

I don't really know enough about the rest to comment.
 
Sir_Ovens said:
Removing the Thorn and Flood from 076's Page
This is an issue best illustrated by Dargoo, but I'll try to explain. The Flood was straight up not done by 076. It was the All-Mighty.

"Hevel, son of Adam, who had cast down the gods of Daevon, raised his voice in challenge to the Scarlet King.

And the Scarlet King answered him.

Hevel, son of Adam, took up his sword, and the floodgates of the sky opened up with a Flood that would wipe time itself clean.

And in doing so, the All-Mighty called upon the world, for the first time since the Word was spoken.

And the world was called upon to witness.

This is the history of mankind, fourth and final child-race of Earth, from the Finding of the Two Trees to the Flood."

This is an extract from Beneath Two Trees and the tale where 076 supposedly gets the Flood. As we can see, there's no direct correlation between 076 and the Flood itself. The text just says he raised his sword and the Flood happened after. There's no indication that 076 created it himself.

As for the Thorn, I don't actually have an argument for this. @Dargoo_Faust will have to help me out here.
Click to expand...
The evidence for the Flood being remove is impossible to counter, but i don't see why the Thorn too should be removed

Sir_Ovens said:
Getting Rid of SCP-1440's Spear
Straight up, SCP-1440 doesn't have the spear. There is one tale that states that 1440 wielded a Spear of the Scarlet King pierced the Scarlet King himself. On the other hand, there are three tales that state that SCP-231-7 was the bearer of the 4th spear and pierced the Scarlet King instead. For the sake of consistency, I think we should accept the latter as truth over the former. As such, we should remove the spear from his page. I have a proposed profile adjustment here.
Click to expand...
Couldn't the spear just have changed hands in the time in-between the tale that says SCP-1440 has it and the ones where SCP-231-7 uses it ?

After all, it's not like it's stuck to it's user's hands
 
Couldn't the spear just have changed hands in the time in-between the tale that says SCP-1440 has it and the ones where SCP-231-7 uses it ?

No, both sets of tales were describing the same event (where characters wielded the Spears of the Scarlet King to kill the Scarlet King). In one tale's telling, 1440 used the 4th spear. In the other set of 3 tales, 231-7 used the 4th spear. All other characters and their allocated spears are the same between those 4 tales, iirc.
 
It's the same canon. The tale where 1440 has the spear takes place right after the seven kill the Scarlet King and Isabel remakes the multiverse.
 
I would just ask you to read Scaling and Canon Rules for the SCP Foundation, but the exact reason why we don't do that isn't listed there.

We currently have pages able to use "Original Canon" or "Extended Canon". Original Canon only incorporates that SCP, anything written by its author, and anything in a canon hub the author wrote it for. Extended Canon uses the most consistent interpretation we can find from incorporating all canon works written by all authors.

You are suggesting to separate things into different canons for different authors. This is something that causes a variety of issues.
  1. The sheer number of keys needed. A lot of popular characters are included in works by many, many authors. If you want to include keys for every new set of feats a different author writes, profiles would get cluttered as all hell with keys that don't actually differ that much.
  2. Incorporating scaling. If we were to just use what that tale's author wrote for one of 1440's keys, we'd have to come up with a completely different scaling chain that only uses their works, I think that this can get pretty wack.
  3. How much of the original author's writings to incorporate. When using Original Canon it's pretty easy to incorporate everything the original author wrote, since that original author obviously knows everything they wrote and incorporated it themselves. Similarly, when using Extended Canon we're incorporating everything written, including what the original author did. What do we do when doing Djoric's canon for, say, a character Kaktus wrote? Did Djoric read every obscure tale Kaktus wrote and incorporate that when writing their own interpretation? Or do we just include what's on the original page? Sometimes that may be possible, but that runs into the next issue...
  4. Many characters don't make sense to be looked at outside of an Extended Canon lens. By this I mean, one SCP briefly mentions some eldritch god in an extremely vague manner. Another author decides to build on that and flesh out that god more. Rinse and repeat and eventually we have a viable Extended Canon key, but how could we do Original Canon of that? There isn't necessarily that much to the first mention by the first author of a certain character. And if we only use what a secondary or tertiary author wrote, that view can also be incomplete since we don't have the original material it was built off of.
To highlight how this applies to your suggestion here with 1440, that tale where 1440 wielded the 4th spear was written by Djoric. The tale where the spears were initially described and given most of their abilities was written by Megalomaniaclnchworm. SCP-1440 was written by Dmatix. The Ad Astra tale where Low 1-C comes from was written by NatVoltaic. The 4 non-hub pages that were linked to establish Yesod as 2-A were written by HammerMaiden, MetaPhysician, thedeadlymoose, and EbenezerShark. I don't know which tales exactly scale SK to it, but if I did I'd bring out their author's names too.

What in god's name does a 1440 key with the spear based on only Djroic's canon even look like? 1440 just gets an unknown-tier weapon with no abilities?

That is all also ignoring the bigger issue that 2 of the 3 tales where 1440 doesn't have the spear are also written by Djoric. But still, the earlier parts of the argument apply to other times this is suggested.
 
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Dargoo is going to have to explain that one. He was the one who made the original argument.
 
iirc (and by looking back at old Discord messages) Dargoo's reasons were that it isn't combat applicable (as it's tied to a specific location), requires the multiverse to already be collapsing, and can't be used without 073 being there, which would be outside help. The quote for the first and last of those is:
"You think that Able was responsible for transforming The Bloom into The Thorn?" Ten wondered.

"Not just Able," Two pointed out. "SCP-073 was also found at the site of the Omega-Seven massacre. Which has always been inexplicable since he was last reported six hundred miles away, at Site-17." Two shrugged. "Maybe we should be asking them."
Click to expand...
Basically, it's not a technique he can just whip out any time like a kamehameha. The fight would already need to be heavily rigged for 076 to use it.

(So says Dargoo, I'm not familiar with 076)
 
idk exactly how Lucetta's works. Stuff that's tied to a location can definitely stay on profiles, but idk if stuff that requires another character's help does. I also don't know how well "If the multiverse is already collapsing, they can make it happen faster" scales to AP (again, if that is established as how the Thorn works, I don't know the tales in question). Those both feel different than simply needing preparation and then being able to cause it yourself.

I could see it simply being explained to be not combat applicable, tho.
 
Sir_Ovens said:
God Tier Additions
Any character that fought the Scarlet King should get Non-Physical Interaction as SK is abstract. Also, any character that fought SK should get Large Size Type 9. SK made Yesod, a full multiverse, his throne. This should also make any god-tier above Yesod scale to Large Size Type 9.
Click to expand...
BTW, shouldn't it be Type 9, likely type 10 due to their Low 1-C Key? The low 1-C key assumes the multiverse is an uncountable infinite in size, unless that doesn't qualify for some reason.
 
Sir_Ovens said:
As for the Thorn, I don't actually have an argument for this. @Dargoo_Faust will have to help me out here.
Click to expand...
this is like, something he does, but it's extremely circumstantial and required him to be in a specific place with 073.

"And then there was the thought I had that it was an interesting coincidence that its blades were so similar to the substance that makes up The Thorn. My working hypothesis had been that Able's blades were somehow drawn from the same source as The Thorn, or maybe The Thorn itself. But if what you say is true, and this "Bloom" was somehow altered into the Thorn about the same time that most of Mobile Task Force Omega-7 was killed in an incident that took place nearby…"

"You think that Able was responsible for transforming The Bloom into The Thorn?" Ten wondered.

"Not just Able," Two pointed out. "SCP-073 was also found at the site of the Omega-Seven massacre. Which has always been inexplicable since he was last reported six hundred miles away, at Site-17." Two shrugged. "Maybe we should be asking them."

Incident Zero - Part 5 - SCP Foundation

The SCP Foundation's 'top-secret' archives, declassified for your enjoyment.
www.scpwiki.com www.scpwiki.com
Click to expand...


… and in that period of time, Cain finished laying Adrian Andrew's bleeding body next to that of his comatose lover's, stepped through the steel doors, and entered the chamber of The Bloom.

It waited for him, resplendent in its infinite colors, iridescent petals stretching across the dimensions, slowly fading in and out of view as it turned gently in space. The cosmic flower at the heart of the world. The thing that had allowed humanity to try and try again when they had failed. The fruit of knowledge, the reflection of eternity.

It had been so, so long since he had last been allowed to witness its glory.

Cain heard an animal growl behind him. He turned, knowing already what he would see.

His brother, the murdered murderer, stood in the doorway. A pair of black swords were clutched in his hands. His eyes were cold. Dead. Emotionless. Just as they had been after Cain's old hands had finished committing their one unspeakable sin.

Cain's new hands, the ones made of steel and fire, clenched tightly. Blue flame erupted from between the joints of his artificial arms. They were matched by the crimson flames that burst forth from his brother's demonic tattoos.

Able took a single step forward…


Incident Zero - Part 4 - SCP Foundation

The SCP Foundation's 'top-secret' archives, declassified for your enjoyment.
www.scpwiki.com www.scpwiki.com
Click to expand...

… and Cain stepped aside, head bowed respectfully.

Able passed under the gates of pearl and fire and entered the chamber of the Bloom. His dead eyes beheld the text inscribed upon The Bloom in runes deeper than a man's arm, burning like gold upon the glassy petals that spanned universes. The activation code for the Bloom. The actions that Able and Cain would need to take to reset time.

A cruel smile touched Able's thin lips. He pushed past the words, leaving them unread. He laughed as he raised his hand above his head. The sword that burst forth stretched from his fingertips all the way to the stars, and beyond. It swallowed up all light that fell upon it, sang of death and the silent tomb, smelled of the void between worlds, devoured light and heat and life and hope…

"Never again," Able said.

He slashed down, and the blade sliced through the gleaming petals and embedded itself deep into the heart of The Bloom.

Reality twisted as The Bloom died.


Incident Zero - Part 5 - SCP Foundation

The SCP Foundation's 'top-secret' archives, declassified for your enjoyment.
www.scpwiki.com www.scpwiki.com
Click to expand...

So like, SCP-076 doesn't do universal/multi/omni/whateverversal resets without
  • Being in the chamber of the Bloom
  • Having 073 with him
Like at a certain point I need to say "just read Incident Zero", or "just read literally any fight with 076 by any author"



I don't think this actually changes much on his profile but people really don't need to say "Thorn restricted" when it's functionally something he will never do in a regular fight.
 
Ye, as Dargoo says. Thorn and Flood should go from 076's page.
 
Dargoo said that the Thorn stuff wouldn't necessarily change 076's page much.

I think we could get away with just mentioning that it has heavily limited requirements that make it not applicable in fights.
 
Yeah like the page is probably already good on the Thorn I just don't agree with it being something he can actually use in a fight.
 
Perhaps a note saying the Thorn isn't combat applicable?
 
Yeah it should say something like "Utilization of the Thorn requires both 076 and 073 to be present at the chamber of the Bloom, making it inapplicable in our standard combat scenarios".
 
Seems good as to help with the thorn I am pretty sure he quite literally walked up and hit it that's it. That said his swords are made of the same stuff but the only thing that makes them comparable is that he hit it hard enough to make it fix everything.
 
Oven keeps bullying me to comment so I'll just say yes.

Also I will add that 11-A should be removed from Bright's profile. The man used 2719 exactly once, only after someone tried to use it against him, and given the nature of the SCP he can't just have it with him. It's very silly to assume Bright can just go and weaponize 2719 at will like that.
 
Cropfist said:
What is 3999's presence in extended canon?
Click to expand...
3999 doesn't really have a presence outside of its own profile. At least not that I know of besides Keter Duty.

Their EC key would just be how much damage they would have done if we account for the size of the multiverse in EC and link it to 3999's multiverse destruction statement.

Also, I think Saik is the only admin who will give their thoughts here so I will just go ahead and make the appropriate changes.
 
Agnaa has brought up an interesting tidbit.

news.png


Mary Nakayama should be 2-C based on her being able to create pairs of realities that mess with each other.
 
Should be good for 2C. Though, I don't think that makes her durability 2C? She is only creating universes, so I don't think that it should scale to her durability.
 
I'm not sure if her 2-C would scale to her durability, but it would certainly change her AP.
 
What are the conclusions here so far?
 
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