The Pony of Shadows vs Lord Tirek

[MinatoSparkle]

Bump.

 

[Drunkfrank]

I mean I guess it really depends on whether or not you believe the PoS absorbed all the stars or not because if he did it is a stomp. He also has a odd body that can disperse and form in odd ways.

Really it's a really strong brute vs a god-like being with waay more abilities. Which is why I think the Pony of Shadows can take it.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I don't personally think so, but that's kinda inconsequential, since, either way, we know what his duraability limit is.

Where was it ever stated the PoS is like a god? Also, Tirek has some special abilities. And Stygian just gives the impression that he has lots of abilities, but he really hasn't shown it.

 

[Lightbuster30]

He strongly implied that he'd destroy every star in the universe claiming he'd "extinguish the light of this world", which would absolutely crap all over anything Tirek does, even if it takes him 1000 years to get it done, being pretty damn far into solar 4-B with that timeframe.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I think he meant Equestria. Also, that should probably go in the not 4-C thread I just made about the PoS. (nevermind, I hadn't posted it yet, but it will be in a few minutes)

 

[Lightbuster30]

Thing is, they almost always mean "world" in context of universe.

 

[Phoenix821]

The comics back up his statements.

 

[Js250476]

Mlp comics have 3 infinite multiversel statements via worlds

 

[Phoenix821]

Only one is involving worlds.

 

[Js250476]

Point kinda still stands comics are broken

 

[Phoenix821]

Yeah they are.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Comics are not the same as the show. MLP has never before in the show used world as meaning the universe. That's a pretty big logical leap.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Of course they have. Plenty of times. Equestria Girls comes to mind. It's hardly a leap.Almost every time "universe" is mentioned it is usually mentioned as something like "world" or "realm".

 

[MinatoSparkle]

When? Also, realm in general could mean universe.

 

[Drunkfrank]

Referring to him as "the darkness" and "the shadow" implies he is the embodiment of darkness itself, so a god in a way. Twitter lore doesn't count I know but Big Jim also said that he is the "god" of darkness until/unless they come up with something else to represent that role. I think his ultimate goal would have been to absorb all light in the universe (as he did absorb the light of stars, you can talk science all day but MLP isn't really that complex) Do we know his durability limit really? He was overpowered by the Elements and Pillars but that was light overpowering darkness, we don't know how much raw power he can actually tank.

 

[ThatDude345]

That makes no sense. EoH is his durability limit

 

[MinatoSparkle]

The EoH is pure power.

 

[ThatDude345]

It doesn't have a NLF.

EoH < Tree of Harmony

EoH < Rainbow Power

 

[Jimboydejuan12]

Nah im going vote for Pony FRA.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

So, the votes so far are:

PoS: 4

Tirek: 1

Inconclusive: 1

Right?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

That makes no sense. EoH is his durability limit

You mean amped EoH, 3 alicorn level characters, and a unicorn.

 

[ThatDude345]

Prove that it made a difference

 

[MinatoSparkle]

? Of course it makes a difference. That's like asking to prove the Z fighters helped Gohan in his fatherson kamehameha clash.

 

[ThatDude345]

It's more like that saying that all recruit level Marines actually made a difference pushing back the birdcage when in the presence of multiple mountain level characters

 

[MinatoSparkle]

But the alicorns level characters probably all are at least 1/16 the strength of the amped EoH. They would've just used the EoH on Tirek if they could (then again, it might just be for cool toys, but that's headcanon), so that likely means the EoH are weaker than 8 alicorn Tirek, meaning an alicorn is AT THE VERY LEAST 1/8 the strength of a regular set of EoH. Also, just the fact that the EoH were amped by a set of element like objects that are probably just as powerful if not moreso since they were the original.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Bump.

 

[Pikachu942]

I feel at an absolute lowball it is comparable, but overall I think the PoS is clearly superior. Taking 2 sets of Elements + Starlight and Twilight is insanely impressive and far outmeasures 8 Alicorns in strength (I'm of the opinion leaning closer to the highball estimate you made for the PoS myself). Even if it was just for durability, that would mean Tirek wouldn't be able to harm him at all, and eventutally the PoS will surround the world in darkness and yada yada evil stuff and eventually slowly win.

So, my vote is for the Pony of Shadows.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Bump. Also, for people who say the PoS's AP doesn't scale to his durability, his AP is now officially Star Level+ - Large Star Level, so that's no longer an argument.

 

[ThatDude343]

It isn't "officially" anything. By that logic, Flurry Heart's durability is also Star Level due to the AP of the Crystal Heart.

 

[ThatDude343]

I feel at an absolute lowball it is comparable, but overall I think the PoS is clearly superior. Taking 2 sets of Elements + Starlight and Twilight is insanely impressive and far outmeasures 8 Alicorns in strength (I'm of the opinion leaning closer to the highball estimate you made for the PoS myself). Even if it was just for durability, that would mean Tirek wouldn't be able to harm him at all, and eventutally the PoS will surround the world in darkness and yada yada evil stuff and eventually slowly win.
So, my vote is for the Pony of Shadows.

Pretty sure Tirek would be able to absorb his darkness magic, eventually he'll absorb enough to either use and manipulate it like he did when he absorbed Discord's chaos magic.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

It isn't "officially" anything. By that logic, Flurry Heart's durability is also Star Level due to the AP of the Crystal Heart.

I mean that's his AP on his page. So it's official on this site. And creatures are different from artifacts.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Pretty sure Tirek would be able to absorb his darkness magic, eventually he'll absorb enough to either use and manipulate it like he did when he absorbed Discord's chaos magic.

How could he absorb someone that's just as powerful/more powerful than him?

 

[Pikachu942]

It's been clearly shown Tirek is unable to absorb the power of people far stronger or comparable to him in strength without either catching them offguard or with their consent.

 

[ThatDude343]

Unless the entirety of Equestria is more powerful than Discord, there is no statement that proves that to be true. The reason why Tirek didn't absorb Twilight's magic in their fight? Easily PIS.

 

[ThatDude343]

It isn't "officially" anything. By that logic, Flurry Heart's durability is also Star Level due to the AP of the Crystal Heart.

I mean that's his AP on his page. So it's official on this site. And creatures are different from artifacts.

How are artifacts different, they have the same scaling and are judged by the same criteria as the characters. Otherwise, why give them durability/AP feats at all?

 

[ThatDude343]

It's been clearly shown Tirek is unable to absorb the power of people far stronger or comparable to him in strength without either catching them offguard or with their consent.

Tirek imbued with a fraction of Grogar (in a weaker state)'s magic was clearly able to drain Chrysalis of some of her magic with her full attention and without consent, before stopping for whatever reason.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Unless the entirety of Equestria is more powerful than Discord, there is no statement that proves that to be true. The reason why Tirek didn't absorb Twilight's magic in their fight? Easily PIS.

That is the implication. And also, why did he have to make a deal with Twilight if he could just absorb the magic. I highly doubt it's all PIS. It's far more logical to assume it's that he can't absorb from comparble/superior opponents.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

How are artifacts different, they have the same scaling and are judged by the same criteria as the characters. Otherwise, why give them durability/AP feats at all?

I mean artifacts, while having strong magic, can be highly susceptible to damage, while most characters with high AP don't have human level durability. I can't think of a single character in mlp who has shown clearly that their AP and durability are different, yet the EoH shattered from falling on the ground.

 

[ThatDude343]

Unless the entirety of Equestria is more powerful than Discord, there is no statement that proves that to be true. The reason why Tirek didn't absorb Twilight's magic in their fight? Easily PIS.

That is the implication. And also, why did he have to make a deal with Twilight if he could just absorb the magic. I highly doubt it's all PIS. It's far more logical to assume it's that he can't absorb from comparble/superior opponents.

It's highly probable for it to be PIS, and here's why. The entire schtick and gimmick for Season 4 was "What's in the box?". That concept was spread as a full season arc and pushed heavily by the writers and the MLP marketing team. In the finale, that entire arc needed to be fully wrapped up within the 15-ish minutes they had left procedding the fight. In that timeframe, they needed to let Twilight get her key, open the box, defeat Tirek and wrap up the season all in that small period of time. If it weren't for that entire theme, I'm pretty sure the writers would have handled the "trade" situation much better, which is why they never explicitly said Tirek needed to have his victim be willing or caught off guard to drain magic, which is exactly what he did to Chrysalis in Season 9

 

[ThatDude343]

How are artifacts different, they have the same scaling and are judged by the same criteria as the characters. Otherwise, why give them durability/AP feats at all?

I mean artifacts, while having strong magic, can be highly susceptible to damage, while most characters with high AP don't have human level durability. I can't think of a single character in mlp who has shown clearly that their AP and durability are different, yet the EoH shattered from falling on the ground.

The most prominent example of a character displaying different AP and durability is the interaction between the Roc and Spike in "Molt Down". The Roc tanked multiple blasts from an Alicorn Twilight and was unscatched, if we go by your logic in scaling that would make the Roc's AP and Durability equal or greater than Alicorn level. Spike then comes along uses his fire and actually physically harms the Roc, charring it's feathers. That would mean that Spike's AP is near Alicorn level via scaling, and would also mean that his durability is also similar which is absolute crazy because Spike has clearly been harmed by town level threats