The Pony of Shadows vs Lord Tirek

[ThatDude345]

That was never explicitly stated that a feat like that exists, him blotting out the light in the night sky doesn't mean he absorbed millions of stars.

 

[ThatDude345]

Also, I watched that scene again. My point is further backed by the fact that the visual effect also dimmed the Moon's light in that hologram, and we know damn well he didn't absorb the moon either.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

If we go by that logic, then PoS feats are even worse because he took damage from Twilight and base Starlight's beam at the start of S7 finale. Scratch that, He was overpowered. It's highly unlikely that 8x Tirek would be harmed by the same magic he absorbed from Twilight afterwards I'll repeat myself again, He has absolutely no way to hurt Tirek 8x without being obliterated.

He explicitly stated that he was weakened.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Also, I watched that scene again. My point is further backed by the fact that the visual effect also dimmed the Moon's light in that hologram, and we know damn well he didn't absorb the moon either.

I don't see that as a feat, but it could if he just temporarily absorbed the energy from them.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Bump.

 

[ThatDude345]

Also, I watched that scene again. My point is further backed by the fact that the visual effect also dimmed the Moon's light in that hologram, and we know damn well he didn't absorb the moon either.

I don't see that as a feat, but it could if he just temporarily absorbed the energy from them.

What is the point here?

 

[ThatDude345]

I have still yet to see from the PoS' side prove that 8x Tirek couldn't just drain his magic at will, the only argument I've seen in a headcanon that is driven from plot-induced stupidity

 

[Lightbuster30]

Because he tanked the EoH which are > Tirek. Tirek never drained magic from someone more powerful than or at the very least comparable to him by force. Otherwise he would have drained Discord and Twilight as soon as he met them, and when he did, one was caught off guard, and the other literally gave him permission to do it.

 

[ThatDude345]

Rainbow Power is the most powerful power in the FiM canon. It shouldn't be comparable to EoH. 8x Tirek is more powerful than any form of Stygian we've seen, he could easily drain his magic

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Also, I watched that scene again. My point is further backed by the fact that the visual effect also dimmed the Moon's light in that hologram, and we know damn well he didn't absorb the moon either.

I don't see that as a feat, but it could if he just temporarily absorbed the energy from them.

What is the point here?

It means he was able to able to affect countless stars.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Rainbow Power is the most powerful power in the FiM canon. It shouldn't be comparable to EoH. 8x Tirek is more powerful than any form of Stygian we've seen, he could easily drain his magic

But Stygian was hit with the force of a heavily amped EoH and Twilight and Starswirl and Sunburst and Starlight. Granted, he only resisted it before Starlight abd Twilight interfered, but even after they joined in, he withheld for a few seconds. And it didn't really hurt him even, it just pushed him.

 

[Lightbuster30]

TBH Tanking an unquantifiably weaker EoH > Getting completely stomped by an unquantifiably stronger RP. Dude got trashed, and we don't know how much weaker the EoH are if at all, but they are comparable at least.

 

[ThatDude345]

Also, I watched that scene again. My point is further backed by the fact that the visual effect also dimmed the Moon's light in that hologram, and we know damn well he didn't absorb the moon either.

I don't see that as a feat, but it could if he just temporarily absorbed the energy from them.

What is the point here?

It means he was able to able to affect countless stars.

Already debunked this, it was a visual amalgamation of light as it also dimmed the Moon which would have meant he also killed Luna who would have been in her banishment at that point in time, which he did not. Do not bring this feat up because it does not exist

 

[ThatDude345]

Rainbow Power is the most powerful power in the FiM canon. It shouldn't be comparable to EoH. 8x Tirek is more powerful than any form of Stygian we've seen, he could easily drain his magic

But Stygian was hit with the force of a heavily amped EoH and Twilight and Starswirl and Sunburst and Starlight. Granted, he only resisted it before Starlight abd Twilight interfered, but even after they joined in, he withheld for a few seconds. And it didn't really hurt him even, it just pushed him.

4 Alicorns >>> 1 Alicorn, 3 broken unicorns

 

[Lightbuster30]

Way to miss the "Amped by the EoH and weapons of the Pillars" part.

 

[ThatDude345]

Way to miss the entire fact that it was probably the entire EoH doing all the work in the first place. It's like Superman and Captain Marvel lifting the book of infinite pages.


You still haven't addressed any of my points regarding the magic absorption being checkmate from the start. Literally the entire Stygian side has yet to even present a feat that can prove that he can harm 8x Tirek in any viable way, your argument is based off multi solar system feat that doesn't exist and durability feats that make absolutely no difference

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Way to miss the entire fact that it was probably the entire EoH doing all the work in the first place. It's like Superman and Captain Marvel lifting the book of infinite pages.


You still haven't addressed any of my points regarding the magic absorption being checkmate from the start. Literally the entire Stygian side has yet to even present a feat that can prove that he can harm 8x Tirek in any viable way, your argument is based off multi solar system feat that doesn't exist and durability feats that make absolutely no difference

What do you mean? Also, there's no reason in this case to assume that Stygian's AP wouldn't equal durability. And Luna wasn't banished then. That's pretty obvious if you think about it.

 

[ThatDude345]

Way to miss the entire fact that it was probably the entire EoH doing all the work in the first place. It's like Superman and Captain Marvel lifting the book of infinite pages.

You still haven't addressed any of my points regarding the magic absorption being checkmate from the start. Literally the entire Stygian side has yet to even present a feat that can prove that he can harm 8x Tirek in any viable way, your argument is based off multi solar system feat that doesn't exist and durability feats that make absolutely no difference

What do you mean? Also, there's no reason in this case to assume that Stygian's AP wouldn't equal durability. And Luna wasn't banished then. That's pretty obvious if you think about it.

Stygian at his most powerful point in the show after spending an entire day in the well of shade struggled to destroy Starswirl's Shield. If we go by your logic and say AP = Durability, then Star Swirl should also multi solar system level which is ridiculous. Point stands that PoS has absolutely no way to harm Tirek

 

[Lightbuster30]

False Equivalency, strawmanning, and possibly slippery slope.

 

[ThatDude345]

Nice evidence. Learn how to debate, seeing as you have absolutely no idea what any of those terms mean.


Like I said, one side has been entirely mute with their debate. Tirek wins mid difficulty and the opposition has made no attempt to logically deduce otherwise.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

If you mean because Starswirl held the shield for 2 blows, that's really stupid logic. Cause Twilight was stated as basically equivalent to Starswirl, and she was weaker than the weakened PoS. So no, Starswirl isn't as strong as the PoS. That was an outlier obviously, and even if it wasn't, it took twobarely charged shots to obliterate the shield. And his strongest shield spell is probably higher than his durability anyway, so yeah. Also, Tirek's absorption is weird. We don't know if his AP has tobe higher than their durability, vise versa, his AP has to be higher than his victim's AP, etc. So you can't assume that Tirek can absorb the PoS's magic.

 

[ThatDude345]

"If you mean because Starswirl held the shield for 2 blows, that's really stupid logic. Cause Twilight was stated as basically equivalent to Starswirl, and she was weaker than the weakened PoS. "

PoS literally stated that Twilight's TK blast was almost as strong as StarSwirl's.

You're the claiming that AP = Durability. The PoS that we see tank the EoH was the strongest version we have of Stygian with actual FEATS. Therefore you claiming that AP = Durability means that the blast that took TWO attempts to destroy Star Swirl's shield is the strongest beam he had been capable of. Hell, how do we know Star Swirl wasn't supposedly letting Stygian break his shield so he would let his guard down and they can trap him in Limbo?


"Tirek's absorption is weird. We don't know if his AP has tobe higher than their durability, vise versa, his AP has to be higher than his victim's AP, etc. So you can't assume that Tirek can absorb the PoS's magic."

Actually I can. It can be deduced that the only reason he didn't immediately absorb Twilight's magic was PIS and couldn't happen because otherwise the fight would have been over. It's like the Deus Ex magic stone that nerfed Discord in S7 Finale, it's needed to progress the story.

 

[Lightbuster30]

"Tirek's absorption is weird. We don't know if his AP has tobe higher than their durability, vise versa, his AP has to be higher than his victim's AP, etc. So you can't assume that Tirek can absorb the PoS's magic."

Actually I can. It can be deduced that the only reason he didn't immediately absorb Twilight's magic was PIS and couldn't happen because otherwise the fight would have been over. It's like the Deus Ex magic stone that nerfed Discord in S7 Finale, it's needed to progress the story.

Or maybe becuase he explictly needed to get stronger to absorb stronger magic? And the sole two times he absorbed someone on par with him were when one had his back turned, and the other let him?

 

[ThatDude345]

"Tirek's absorption is weird. We don't know if his AP has tobe higher than their durability, vise versa, his AP has to be higher than his victim's AP, etc. So you can't assume that Tirek can absorb the PoS's magic."

Actually I can. It can be deduced that the only reason he didn't immediately absorb Twilight's magic was PIS and couldn't happen because otherwise the fight would have been over. It's like the Deus Ex magic stone that nerfed Discord in S7 Finale, it's needed to progress the story.

Or maybe becuase he explictly needed to get stronger to absorb stronger magic? And the sole two times he absorbed someone on par with him were when one had his back turned, and the other let him?

Funny how you wait for me to respond to someone else so you don't have to address the issues that I've brought to your attention. I can answer that when you tell me what's the win condition for PoS to beat Stygian as I've already used his absorption as a way of winning. Also, Discord never had his back turned so I don't know what you're trying to say there

 

[Lightbuster30]

Nice ad hominem you got there.

You know exactly what I meant. Don;t play coy.

 

[ThatDude345]

I have full belief that you have absolutely no idea what any of the logical fallacies you've stated mean.


I've addressed your point several times and you have yet to give an answer that makes sense and/or is valid. Try again

 

[MinatoSparkle]

"If you mean because Starswirl held the shield for 2 blows, that's really stupid logic. Cause Twilight was stated as basically equivalent to Starswirl, and she was weaker than the weakened PoS. "
PoS literally stated that Twilight's TK blast was almost as strong as StarSwirl's.

You're the claiming that AP = Durability. The PoS that we see tank the EoH was the strongest version we have of Stygian with actual FEATS. Therefore you claiming that AP = Durability means that the blast that took TWO attempts to destroy Star Swirl's shield is the strongest beam he had been capable of. Hell, how do we know Star Swirl wasn't supposedly letting Stygian break his shield so he would let his guard down and they can trap him in Limbo?


"Tirek's absorption is weird. We don't know if his AP has tobe higher than their durability, vise versa, his AP has to be higher than his victim's AP, etc. So you can't assume that Tirek can absorb the PoS's magic."

Actually I can. It can be deduced that the only reason he didn't immediately absorb Twilight's magic was PIS and couldn't happen because otherwise the fight would have been over. It's like the Deus Ex magic stone that nerfed Discord in S7 Finale, it's needed to progress the story.

...exactly. That's what I said. I don't know what you're trying to prove there. Still doesn't matter. It's impossible to prove how much stronger a magical forcefield is than the pony's actual durability.

No. Then, after the fight stopped, he could've sucked the magic. Like LightBuster said, the only times Tirek absorbed the magic of Alicorn+ level characters was 1. When he had the magic of all of Equestria, and Discord was kinda caught off guard, and when Twilight let him.

 

[ThatDude345]

You're the one saying durability = AP. If Starswirl's durability is enough to tank one blast of Stygian's magic beam then by default he scales to that AP. If you're going to use rough logic use it correctly.


Even if you redundantly keep pursuing the idea that Pre-Fight Tirek is only supposed to be able to drain the magic of someone who is on his level, Post-Fight Tirek was only able to be defeated by Rainbow Power which is unanimously the strongest power-up in the entire series. You're not telling me that Tirek with the power of every pony, Discord, and all four alicorns is not going to be able to drain the magic of Twilight who only has the power of 4 alicorns. You keep reviving this thread with the intent of doing the same dance even though it gets you where you started.

 

[Drunkfrank]

Also, I watched that scene again. My point is further backed by the fact that the visual effect also dimmed the Moon's light in that hologram, and we know damn well he didn't absorb the moon either.

Well watch it again again. The stars literally flow into him, he absorbed the light of the moon but also the light of every star in the night sky, which are just balls of light.

 

[ThatDude345]

I've watched it multiple times. It was a hologram that heightened the effect of him dimming the night sky. This is also backed by the fact that they never stated in the first place that he accomplished this "feat" of destroying multiple stars in the first place. Stars, believe it or not, aren't only composed of light. It wouldn't make sense for him to absorb every star in that known Universe but only leave the Moon standing in space. If his goal was eternal darkness, leaving The Moon in the sky where it was clearly visible is idiotic.

 

[Lightbuster30]

It is arguable that he did actually absorb them. Absorbing light from the moon is just absorbing reflected light. Absorbing light from the stars wouldn't make them dim since they are constantly making light. You'd have to absorb them directly or absorb all the light over their lifespan or else they'd just make more light.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I've watched it multiple times. It was a hologram that heightened the effect of him dimming the night sky. This is also backed by the fact that they never stated in the first place that he accomplished this "feat" of destroying multiple stars in the first place. Stars, believe it or not, aren't only composed of light. It wouldn't make sense for him to absorb every star in that known Universe but only leave the Moon standing in space. If his goal was eternal darkness, leaving The Moon in the sky where it was clearly visible is idiotic.

Or the stars just aren't visible from Equestria.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

You're the one saying durability = AP. If Starswirl's durability is enough to tank one blast of Stygian's magic beam then by default he scales to that AP. If you're going to use rough logic use it correctly.


Even if you redundantly keep pursuing the idea that Pre-Fight Tirek is only supposed to be able to drain the magic of someone who is on his level, Post-Fight Tirek was only able to be defeated by Rainbow Power which is unanimously the strongest power-up in the entire series. You're not telling me that Tirek with the power of every pony, Discord, and all four alicorns is not going to be able to drain the magic of Twilight who only has the power of 4 alicorns. You keep reviving this thread with the intent of doing the same dance even though it gets you where you started.

Again, it wasn't even close to Stygian's full power, and a shield>durability.

I'm saying Stygian's stronger much stronger than 4 alicorn Twilight.

 

[ThatDude345]

Again, it wasn't even close to Stygian's full power, and a shield>durability.

I'm saying Stygian's stronger much stronger than 4 alicorn Twilight.

It was the most powerful version of Stygian we saw with actual feats, as it's the same one resisted the EoH x2 and StarSwirl's shield tanked that blast. That's why the logic you are using to say his attack power = durability is easily retconned.

 

[ThatDude345]

Or the stars just aren't visible from Equestria.

That would prove my point that he didn't destroy them.

When the Mane 6 went to Ponehege we didn't see any stars

 

[ThatDude345]

It is arguable that he did actually absorb them. Absorbing light from the moon is just absorbing reflected light. Absorbing light from the stars wouldn't make them dim since they are constantly making light. You'd have to absorb them directly or absorb all the light over their lifespan or else they'd just make more light.

Arguable =/= Decisive

I'm not convinced that he absorbed any light in the first place, but I'll humor your angle. The light seen from stars is actually light that has been sent years ago (thus lightyears) and is only now being percieved through eyesight. The light dimmed in the hologram would have been light that has been travelling in space for multiple years, nobody said the stars stopped creating light, only rendering them invisible to the naked eye

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Again, it wasn't even close to Stygian's full power, and a shield>durability.

I'm saying Stygian's stronger much stronger than 4 alicorn Twilight.

It was the most powerful version of Stygian we saw with actual feats, as it's the same one resisted the EoH x2 and StarSwirl's shield tanked that blast. That's why the logic you are using to say his attack power = durability is easily retconned.
"Again, it wasn't even close to Stygian's full power" He barely charged it, and that's why we can assume that. And even if it was his full power, Starswirl's full power barrier being strong enough to tank the power Stygian took isn't so ridiculous that it's impossible. Afterall, we've never before seen the elements interact with a shield.

 

[ThatDude345]

Again, it wasn't even close to Stygian's full power, and a shield>durability.

I'm saying Stygian's stronger much stronger than 4 alicorn Twilight.

It was the most powerful version of Stygian we saw with actual feats, as it's the same one resisted the EoH x2 and StarSwirl's shield tanked that blast. That's why the logic you are using to say his attack power = durability is easily retconned.

"Again, it wasn't even close to Stygian's full power" He barely charged it, and that's why we can assume that. And even if it was his full power, Starswirl's full power barrier being strong enough to tank the power Stygian took isn't so ridiculous that it's impossible. Afterall, we've never before seen the elements interact with a shield.
It's the strongest beam that we've seen that can be used as an actual feat, there is nothing in the episode that would assume he could have "charged" it. Anything above that is a NLF

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I hate to assume this, but honestly, Starswirl's shield might be strong enough to withstand 2 EoH. Highly unlikely, but...c'mon, it's Starswirl for pete's sake. He can do anything!

 

[ThatDude345]

Lol