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That seems like gameplay mechanics tbh
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The Pen is greater than the Sword
- Thread starter GyroNutz
- Start date
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TFW you realize that Smeargle is discount Novel Kars.
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Spore + Lock-on + OHKO is a strategy that even most trainers wouldn't come up with in the anime.Everything12 said:
Let's say it like this: A average pokémon is by no means smarter than than a young human child. Most likely they are less smart.
So, assuming you were playing Pokémon when you were really young, which move sets did you teach your pokémon? I for once didn't use any great strategies as child. I simply used whatever seemed to consistently punch hardest. And I know lots of other children do just that.
So I kinda doubt Smeargle will do better than that.
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Ehh duck it
Akame FRA
I'll add info on her every now and then but I can't debate Smeargle as I don't know him well
Akame FRA
I'll add info on her every now and then but I can't debate Smeargle as I don't know him well
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The Spore + Lock On + OHKO move was just an example of the an easy ways that smeargle have to defeat Akame based on moves from pokemon near to him.
Smeargle in one week could have access to Spore (put Akame to sleep) or Thunder wave (Reduce Akame`s speed). Moves like double team (makes copies of himself) and teleport to avoid Akame´s attacks and keep the distance. Safeguard prevents status effects (paralysis, sleep, burn, poison) so he won´t die from the toxin of the sword. Embargo negates the toxin from Murasame. The big area attacks making damage from a safe distance: Earthquake, Surf, Blizzard, Psychic, etc. And finally the OHKO moves Fissure, Sheer Cold, Guillotine, Horn Drill.
Maybe Smeargle isn´t the smartest Pokemon, but he surely have a survival instinct and knows his moves. He have a good variety of moves that can help him win this battle so thats why i´m voting him.
Smeargle in one week could have access to Spore (put Akame to sleep) or Thunder wave (Reduce Akame`s speed). Moves like double team (makes copies of himself) and teleport to avoid Akame´s attacks and keep the distance. Safeguard prevents status effects (paralysis, sleep, burn, poison) so he won´t die from the toxin of the sword. Embargo negates the toxin from Murasame. The big area attacks making damage from a safe distance: Earthquake, Surf, Blizzard, Psychic, etc. And finally the OHKO moves Fissure, Sheer Cold, Guillotine, Horn Drill.
Maybe Smeargle isn´t the smartest Pokemon, but he surely have a survival instinct and knows his moves. He have a good variety of moves that can help him win this battle so thats why i´m voting him.
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Grace!
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Not sure if it's Grace considering most of the votes were made before DT brought up points against them
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Schnee One said:
Smeargle FRA and Grace.
13:57, April 17, 2019
- It was Grace then and it's grace now!
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That's not what I meant
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Even if smeargle finds endure it doesn't work against status effects in game right? If a pokemon gets hit survives with endure and is poisoned then they still faint. I'm not sure if the manga version of endure works differently or not but I think if it does learn endure which others have said would be iffy then she slashes fataly he survives with said move then murasame's curese finishes him off. Still pretty new here so not sure if this thread is necro or closed or whatever but if its not Akame for this and reasons above.
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The thing with Mursame is that the only reason why it kills is for the poison, apart from that is just a regular sword. Like i said above smeargle can use embargo (negates the use of items), use double team creating copies of himself , teleport in order to avoid being slash or use safeguard negating any status effect (this includes poison). Those moves are really easy for him to find because Pokemon in his area can learn them.
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People with resistance to over 200 types of poison still die to Murasame though
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In the pokemon world poison based attacks can affect any type of life form from Ice and Rock to Metal and even other Poison (with the ability corrosion); but still its effects can be negated by safeguard. I personally think that the toxins in the poison from Pokemon are deathlier since in Akame ga Kill looks like just have effect in contact with flesh,
I will leave the pokedex entry of Muk (a pokemon that can be poisoned with corrosion ability) so you can judge how powerfull it is.
I will leave the pokedex entry of Muk (a pokemon that can be poisoned with corrosion ability) so you can judge how powerfull it is.
| Ultra Sun | There are over a hundred kinds of poison inside its body. Chemical reactions between different poisons are the source of its vitality. |
|---|
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Affecting Ice or Rock, especially the kind that's alive doesn't really speak of potency
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But poison/steel pokemon aren't affected by poison in pokemon world so its proven that poison in that verse can't get past poison resistance unlike murasame's curse. And saying that safeguard will stop any status in fiction is like saying protect will keep a pokemon safe from an attack from any tier being right?
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Uhh
Bit of a bad time but
Akame is going to get a slight AP upgrade
Can someone tell me Smeargle's AP?
Bit of a bad time but
Akame is going to get a slight AP upgrade
Can someone tell me Smeargle's AP?
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The Ability Corrosion (Corrosion allows the user to inflict poison on any Pokémon regardless of type, allowing them to poison Poison and Steel-type Pokémon.) Safeguard will protect from Poison, Burn, Paralyze, Sleep, Freeze and Confusion and they're equivalents in other games, just as long as the status effect is non-volatile. Protect, well protects, from any attack unless it is Feint, Hyperspace Fury, Hyperspace Hole, Phantom Force, Shadow Force or a Z-move.Panicrain said:
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To get back to the "Smeargle isn't intelligent enough to do anything the people bring up as win condition here" point I made:
Has anyone tried looking up the canoncial fighting strategies employed by (wild) Smeargle's in the various media?
'cause I did. Not a whole lot of fighting appearances, but we briefly see wild/without trainer present smeargle fighting in the pokemon adventure manga. (Chapter 105 & 314)
The result of that is that a wild smeargles fightning strategy canonically seems to consist of close combat (not the move) and flinging paint at the opponent.
So yeah, in character non of the suggested strategies will be used.
Has anyone tried looking up the canoncial fighting strategies employed by (wild) Smeargle's in the various media?
'cause I did. Not a whole lot of fighting appearances, but we briefly see wild/without trainer present smeargle fighting in the pokemon adventure manga. (Chapter 105 & 314)
The result of that is that a wild smeargles fightning strategy canonically seems to consist of close combat (not the move) and flinging paint at the opponent.
So yeah, in character non of the suggested strategies will be used.
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From what I can tell he scales above High 7C plus which would make Akame over 5x strongerSchnee One said:
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Not only is akame smarter doesn't she completely outskill too? So even if we give smeargle the benefit of the doubt and say he can actually use complex strategies with safeguard etc. what's stopping her from simply outmaneuvering him until it wears off. I don't think moves like lock on and such would help here considering she dodged, and blocked strikes from someone who could read her mind, and predict the future through her muscle movements.
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From what I can tell he scales above High 7C plus which would make Akame over 5x stronger
This is important, please answer
This is important, please answer
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Why do we think that pokemon are not intelligent? In Pokemon Mistery Dungeon they have his own society and are very organized. Also in the anime Pokemon can make strategies by their own without the trainer
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Pokemon Mystery Dungeon pkmn are clearly not the same as others. Normal pkmn for example wouldn't build cities or guilds nor can they read or write.Demon Takumo 31 said:
That aside, some pkmn can do strategies, some can't. Their intelligence isn't all the same. Most pkmn are less intelligent than their 10 year old trainer, leaning closer to the animalistic side.
Lastly, as I said above, factually the behaviour demonstrated by smeargles does not support the battle stratgies suggested here. Considering that we have feats of smeargle not acting smart, but nobody has found any feat of smeargles using some smart strategy yet, it has to be assumed that it in fact won't do that.
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Are we forgetting that Smeargle have a week of prep time to sketch everything that`s near him?
The main instinct reply for being in a battle is attack or run. In the case of attack like i said before Smeargle have a lot of options like paralyse and put his foe to sleep or just spam long range attacks like surf, earthquake, blizzard (can freeze his foe) or psichic and for run it has double team and teleport with that it can avoid being touched by murasame. It don´t think that attack and avoid is something to elaborate for a pokemon
The main instinct reply for being in a battle is attack or run. In the case of attack like i said before Smeargle have a lot of options like paralyse and put his foe to sleep or just spam long range attacks like surf, earthquake, blizzard (can freeze his foe) or psichic and for run it has double team and teleport with that it can avoid being touched by murasame. It don´t think that attack and avoid is something to elaborate for a pokemon
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A week is helpful, but it depends on what it sketches.
Also, for what its worth, Smeargle may likely have IQ Skills. In Smeargle's case, it's in Group F. https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/IQ#Explorers_of_Time.2C_Darkness_and_Sky
The notable ones for this combat seem to be(Descriptions in italics.):
Item Catcher: The Pokémon can catch and hold a thrown item, unless it is already holding an item. It can't catch seeds or health drinks. (Only relevant if Akame tries throwing something at Smeargle. Unlikely, IMHO.)
Item Master: The Pokémon will use or throw its hold item. (An inclination towards some tactic is better than none.)
Exclusive Move-User: The Pokémon will only use moves. It will not use its regular attack. (Considering the "regular attack" referred to, in PMD, IIRC, is a generic, unnamed move, this IQ Skill may mean less bias towards "close combat and throwing paint".
Status Checker: The Pokémon will not use moves that cause a status problem if the target already has the same status problem. (Slightly less dumb when using status is still better than being more dumb.)
(Although, it should be noted that the above 4 IQ Skills are ones all Pokemon get, IIRC.)
Pierce Hurler: Pokémon's thrown items pierce through walls and other Pokémon without stopping, but impact all Pokémon they hit along the way. (Pick up Hard Stone, Soft Sand or whatever else may be laying about, chuck at Akame?)
Sharpshooter: Boosts the critical-hit ratios of the Pokémon's moves and attacks. (Helpful if it can hit Akame.)
Wary Fighter: If the Pokémon misses its attack, it takes a step back to distance itself from its target. (Given Akame is pretty lethal, retreating if it fails to hit her could be a helpful tactic.)
PP Saver: The Pokémon will occasionally use a move without consuming PP. (Saving stamina isn't a big help if it gets OHKO'd by Murasame's Poison, but it's something.)
All-Terrain Hiker: The Pokémon gains the ability to cross water and lava and walk through gulleys. (Smeargle can walk on water, unlike Akame, who may need to jump or swim to cross water. If Smeargle has the range to attack her, either by throwing items, or using moves, it can fight back, although whether or not its IQ Skill means it's likely to do so is questionable.)
Multitalent: The Pokémon becomes so talented with its moves that it gets slightly more PP to spend on them. This IQ Skill can't be turned off. (Apparently, Smeargle & other F IQ Group Pokemon are very skilled with their moves, at least to the extent that they can save stamina on them. In game mechanics, this ability adds +5 to the base PP to every move the Pokemon has.)
No-Charger: The Pokémon charges then unleashes any move that normally requires 2 turns in only one turn. Powering up these charge-up moves so quickly consumes 2 PP, however. (Quicker execution of moves like Skull Bash, Sky Attack, Solarbeam, etc. if Smeargle ends up using them. Of course, that requires it sketch them to begin with.)
Self-Curer: The Pokémon recovers faster than usual from status problems. (Bulbapedia's claim is "Temporary status conditions will usually not last beyond 3 turns with this skill." so I have no idea how faster/how much faster it will self-cure. 'course, I don't know how quickly Akame's poison kills either. How fast has it been shown to kill?)
It should also be noted that one of Smeargle's abilities is Moody, which, "every turn", reduces one of Smeargle's stats at random by 1 stage, then raises another random stat by 2 stages. A net gain of stats every time it happens. This includes, Evasion & Accuracy, in addition to both physical & non-physical offenses & defenses, as well as speed.
Going by game mechanics as a metric for how much stat boosts could influence things:
At maximum Evasion, a Pokemon is about one third as likely to be struck & at maximum Accuracy, a Pokemon is about 3 times as likely to land its moves.
And for any of non-physical or physical offense or defense at its maximum boost, as well as speed, it's about 4 times greater.
With enough time (And Smeargle DOES have a week of preptime), Moody's constant occurences of net stat gains could put Smeargle pretty close to maximum in all of its stats.
Given all that, IS Moody active during the week of preptime? Does it make a difference?
I'm not sure how much advantage they are, but Smeargle isn't helpless, especially with IQ Skills.
(Gee, lookit the guy with the Pokemon Avatar providing information that's helpful for the Pokemon's side. Apologies if I seem a bit biased for anyone's taste; I don't know Akame Ga Kill! that well, & it seems like there are folks more knowledgeable about it debating here, too, anyway.)
Also, for what its worth, Smeargle may likely have IQ Skills. In Smeargle's case, it's in Group F. https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/IQ#Explorers_of_Time.2C_Darkness_and_Sky
The notable ones for this combat seem to be(Descriptions in italics.):
Item Catcher: The Pokémon can catch and hold a thrown item, unless it is already holding an item. It can't catch seeds or health drinks. (Only relevant if Akame tries throwing something at Smeargle. Unlikely, IMHO.)
Item Master: The Pokémon will use or throw its hold item. (An inclination towards some tactic is better than none.)
Exclusive Move-User: The Pokémon will only use moves. It will not use its regular attack. (Considering the "regular attack" referred to, in PMD, IIRC, is a generic, unnamed move, this IQ Skill may mean less bias towards "close combat and throwing paint".
Status Checker: The Pokémon will not use moves that cause a status problem if the target already has the same status problem. (Slightly less dumb when using status is still better than being more dumb.)
(Although, it should be noted that the above 4 IQ Skills are ones all Pokemon get, IIRC.)
Pierce Hurler: Pokémon's thrown items pierce through walls and other Pokémon without stopping, but impact all Pokémon they hit along the way. (Pick up Hard Stone, Soft Sand or whatever else may be laying about, chuck at Akame?)
Sharpshooter: Boosts the critical-hit ratios of the Pokémon's moves and attacks. (Helpful if it can hit Akame.)
Wary Fighter: If the Pokémon misses its attack, it takes a step back to distance itself from its target. (Given Akame is pretty lethal, retreating if it fails to hit her could be a helpful tactic.)
PP Saver: The Pokémon will occasionally use a move without consuming PP. (Saving stamina isn't a big help if it gets OHKO'd by Murasame's Poison, but it's something.)
All-Terrain Hiker: The Pokémon gains the ability to cross water and lava and walk through gulleys. (Smeargle can walk on water, unlike Akame, who may need to jump or swim to cross water. If Smeargle has the range to attack her, either by throwing items, or using moves, it can fight back, although whether or not its IQ Skill means it's likely to do so is questionable.)
Multitalent: The Pokémon becomes so talented with its moves that it gets slightly more PP to spend on them. This IQ Skill can't be turned off. (Apparently, Smeargle & other F IQ Group Pokemon are very skilled with their moves, at least to the extent that they can save stamina on them. In game mechanics, this ability adds +5 to the base PP to every move the Pokemon has.)
No-Charger: The Pokémon charges then unleashes any move that normally requires 2 turns in only one turn. Powering up these charge-up moves so quickly consumes 2 PP, however. (Quicker execution of moves like Skull Bash, Sky Attack, Solarbeam, etc. if Smeargle ends up using them. Of course, that requires it sketch them to begin with.)
Self-Curer: The Pokémon recovers faster than usual from status problems. (Bulbapedia's claim is "Temporary status conditions will usually not last beyond 3 turns with this skill." so I have no idea how faster/how much faster it will self-cure. 'course, I don't know how quickly Akame's poison kills either. How fast has it been shown to kill?)
It should also be noted that one of Smeargle's abilities is Moody, which, "every turn", reduces one of Smeargle's stats at random by 1 stage, then raises another random stat by 2 stages. A net gain of stats every time it happens. This includes, Evasion & Accuracy, in addition to both physical & non-physical offenses & defenses, as well as speed.
Going by game mechanics as a metric for how much stat boosts could influence things:
At maximum Evasion, a Pokemon is about one third as likely to be struck & at maximum Accuracy, a Pokemon is about 3 times as likely to land its moves.
And for any of non-physical or physical offense or defense at its maximum boost, as well as speed, it's about 4 times greater.
With enough time (And Smeargle DOES have a week of preptime), Moody's constant occurences of net stat gains could put Smeargle pretty close to maximum in all of its stats.
Given all that, IS Moody active during the week of preptime? Does it make a difference?
I'm not sure how much advantage they are, but Smeargle isn't helpless, especially with IQ Skills.
(Gee, lookit the guy with the Pokemon Avatar providing information that's helpful for the Pokemon's side. Apologies if I seem a bit biased for anyone's taste; I don't know Akame Ga Kill! that well, & it seems like there are folks more knowledgeable about it debating here, too, anyway.)
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The Smeargles I am talking about in regards to battle showings are trainer owned or living wild for their entire live.Demon Takumo 31 said:
A week of prep is less than they had to develope.
It will follow its instincts and attack. Just not by having copied a tons of moves and spamming them, but instead by entering physical combat.
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Every wild smeargle i have ever fought has just used sketch willy nilly and never with any attempt at getting a good move it could get a bunch of completely useless moves. Also the IQ skills talked about above are exclusive to the mystery dungeon series which we established are filled with higher intelligence pokemon. And if people want to use game mechanics to explain how smeargle would win, then sketch has only 1pp and smeargle has no ether/elixir to replenish so how is it supposed to get the laundry list of moves that everyone keeps saying it'll somehow get?
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Smeargle just having sketch we can consider a game mechanic, but if not; in the anime we have seen that pokemon live in armony and in the wild they aren´t having fights with each other (just some species) so i will supose that smeargle never need to battle before you find him in tall grass, safari or cave.
Smeargle learns sketch multiple times by levelling up and use it means that he will have a new move so there is not need to restore his PP.
i have no idea why you think that smeargle wouldn´t pick some decent moves; in the anime pokemon can lead groups, have his own way of society, talk to each other, some train by themself and battle with trainers even if they are not used to fight. Pokemon are smart, maybe the only dumb pokemon is slowpoke. A smeargle probably will tell the Pokemon near that it will need to fight and need moves (thats not strange in the world of pokemon at least for what have been shown in the anime) and with that have access to the best attacks.
Smeargle learns sketch multiple times by levelling up and use it means that he will have a new move so there is not need to restore his PP.
i have no idea why you think that smeargle wouldn´t pick some decent moves; in the anime pokemon can lead groups, have his own way of society, talk to each other, some train by themself and battle with trainers even if they are not used to fight. Pokemon are smart, maybe the only dumb pokemon is slowpoke. A smeargle probably will tell the Pokemon near that it will need to fight and need moves (thats not strange in the world of pokemon at least for what have been shown in the anime) and with that have access to the best attacks.
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What do we even do with this thread?
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Even relying on level up sketch he only would get ten moves max, and that's only if it levels to 91 which i doubt an average smeargle can actually on its own considering no wild smeargle gets near that level in the games. And even in the anime what evidence is there that in character a wild smeargle gets strong or picks good moves on its own?
It seems like we need some distinction in this match for what type of smeargle this is becuase people keep picking and choosing what they want from the different source material to support their argument, even though the anime, manga, and games are all different and contradict each other on certain things. Such as pokemon behavior and intelligence.
It seems like we need some distinction in this match for what type of smeargle this is becuase people keep picking and choosing what they want from the different source material to support their argument, even though the anime, manga, and games are all different and contradict each other on certain things. Such as pokemon behavior and intelligence.
